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[DE]Megan

Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes

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I for one see no problem with this. It WAS BROKEN and they fixed it. Last week I went for an hour as Loki with just another friend and we did a 1 Hour T4 Survival with such little effort that it got boring by the end of it, lol. We even managed to kill Vor, not due to Covert Lethality but just the base damage from our Karysts. XD

 

On Excal it was definitely broken and made it a total Press 4 to win ability to literally kill ANY level of enemy in one wave shot. So that fix was epected.

 

Only thing I'm a bit on the line about is the loss of Syndicate Effects but I guess they should've been separate from the ability in the first place, so I guess that's ok.

 

Now the only thing I really have a problem with is DE's style of putting these 'unintended' things out there, then removing them when they realise it's become a new meta. Why can't DE just give us things as they were intended to work in the first place, when they know that such broken mechanics WILL be exploited by players and when they remove them at a moment's notice, all those players will riot?

 

Why allow such things to happen time and time again in the first place. I have no problem with these nerfs, what I do have a problem with is the 'give people broken toys, then take them away' thing. Just give us the 'fixed' toys in the first place DE, just to avoid such backlash over and over again. It will be better for both your and the community's mental health!

Edited by Sci_Ant
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Wait wait wait.

 

You want to make it so Excalibur users use more than just 1 or 2 weapons, but...

 

1.He only gets a 10% damage boost off of Nikanas, Long Swords, and Dual Blades.

 

2.You're HAMPERING THE USEFULNESS OF CERTAIN WEAPONS.  Now there's no point to using the Prisma Skana with EB when I could use the Dragon Nikana, or the Galatine.

 

3.You blame players for using certain weapons with augments, but they're using those because the augment is useful.  You're essentially punishing players just for using viable weapons.  If you want more weapon variety, then instead of focusing on Conclave, a mode which is secondary to the main game of Warframe, make more Weapon augment mods.  I'd LOVE to see an Augment for Nikanas, or an Augment for the Jat Kittag.

 

I'm fine with the Covert Lethality nerf, but the logic on the EB nerf is dubious at best.

 

So, in summary: Digital Extremes, you are making weapons less useful because you want them to use more weapons.  This train of logic makes no sense.

 

Edit:I do want to note, the nerf honestly doesn't affect me.  I never used the Prisma Skana anyway, and stuck with the various other weapons I used.  But DE's thought process on this is something I simply cannot understand.

Exactly! As I saw it, the augments were partially to REVIVE the use of some weapons, but all this nerf does with excal is make more weapons not worth using, in favor of the D. Nikana, Scindo P, etc. I don't get it.

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DE... You do realize that stealth finishers will almost already one-hit kill enemies right? (Not to mention finishers in general are SUPER clunky and Iffy to execute.) Making Covert Lethality just a waste of a slot. I would much rather you revert to the 400% bonus stealth damage than this.

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Can we atleast make Finishers affected by Fury? And maybe make it twice as fast, because otherwise finishers will forever be worthless heaps of overkill damage for 99% of the game's content.

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The biggest problem I have with the CL change is that it restricts the mod to stealth, which is broken and pointless in this game. Sure, it was broken, but it was at least apllicable to the other 90% of the game that isnt stealth oriented. If you made it apply to combat finishers, and not apply to EB, it would be fine. But it has been sided to restrict it to a broken system. If you are going to nerf it this much you better have a Stealth OVERHAUL in the makes; otherwise you have effectively killed the mod as well as the dagger category (again).

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Unfortunately this kills daggers for Loki in endless missions. Unlike Ash, there's no way to gain stealth finishers on demand with a power on that frame. In that sense I find it a little counterintuitive when it comes to pushing daggers for both stealth frames. Only one will continue to use it, while Loki loadouts will be forced to find a different weapon type when playing Survival/Defense/Interception.

I wish there was a way to get an enemy stunned for stealth finishers in that regard when playing the frame. Perhaps there could be an augment or a change so that using Decoy on an enemy target will stun them and leave them open for stealth finishers? At least that way, Covert Lethality retains usefulness for Loki players.

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probably better in the long run. however, self Healing is a requirement for both Melee and Health Durability. if a Warframe wants to be Health durable, it's a requirement to have a method to Heal one's self. (as we assume you don't always have a different Player that can Heal around)

so just note that Life Strike is mandatory for Exalted Blade. you HAVE to have that Mod to use it.

or turn it off to use a Weapon with a Healing component, like Winds of Purity or the Explosions that Heal. but if you want to not die while using Exalted Blade, Life Strike is mandatory.

and that's not cool either. Health Durability makes Healing mandatory. do something about it. Warframes that want to be Health durable must have some method to gain Health. it doesn't need to be an incredibly high amount, but some is mandatory.

it kind of makes sense gameplay wise since you can't stand in the open for too long during stealth gameplay.

Stealth Attacks perhaps - you're invulnerable while performing Combat Finishers however.
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Ok so if I get this correctly, the goal is now to have a mod that guarantees death to enemies killed by stealth finishers yes?

I may be wrong but cant a fully modded dagger w.o this augment already do this?

If so, wouldnt this mod be completely unecessary?

Edited by Oranji

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DE... You do realize that stealth finishers will almost already one-hit kill enemies right? (Not to mention finishers in general are SUPER clunky and Iffy to execute.) Making Covert Lethality just a waste of a slot. I would much rather you revert to the 400% bonus stealth damage than this.

It was actually 400% lethal, not 400% stealth damage, in other words you were 4x overkilling. But heck, 400% stealth damage would also be preferable to a cruddy finisher only mod.. Not that I'd use it at 400% though because that'd still be worse than nearly all guns.

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People that say Covert Lethality is useless now are nuts. It still adds +100 base damage to daggers! That's near +200% more base damage. Being able to instant kill with finishers makes up for the slow animation speed. You're also invincible while doing finishers. So many people just want easy mode.

Edited by SicSlaver
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we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons.
 
We hope that you will agree that this is better for Warframe balance and makes conceptual sense for how you would expect the power to work.

 

 

With one or two specific weapons? Ladies and gentledwarves, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it Excalibur with the 10% damage and speed passive bonus to swords? If I want to do melee with Excalibur, maybe I want to utilitize my passive, so my choice is ALREDY limited to swords.

 

And so the inevitable chain of Exalted Blade nerfs begins.

 

Going to miss being able rely on Bright Purity for health instead of Life Strike. Maybe if DE actually started releasing more Syndicate weapon augments, it would be more than just "two melee weapons". Hell, they could have made the +projectile speed Kestrel augment also affect Exalted Blade projectiles.

 

It's quite hilarious, actually. With this change, people wanting to use Skana AND Exalted Blade will run into a problem. If they want to completely minmax Skana, they HAVE to use Bright Purity, which will waste a potential slot that could be used for more Exalted Blade damage. If they want to completely minmax Exalted Blade, they CANNOT use Bright Purity, which puts a huge handicap on the effectiveness of the Skana. Meanwhile, anyone who favors any other melee weapon besides Cleavers gets the best of both worlds. The augments are supposed to be reasons to use these weapons. You've essentially made them the exact opposite.

 

This is a fine example of nerfing a playstyle too much. In an attempt to eliminate the meta, you've established a new one; now instead of ONLY Skana/Cleavers, it's ANYTHING BUT Skana/Cleavers.

 

Wanna know what the funniest part about this is? If augments actually had their own slot, this problem could have been completely avoided.

This ^. Please, listen to this clever person. Bright Purity is really good, it provides you with a decent heal, deals radial corrosive aoe + proc, boosts your damage passively. The very existence of syndicate mods is making Exalted Blade that good and usable. That nerf won't really enlarge weapon choise, it will also ruin all fun of using EB. We need that heal. There are people who want to use swords. Without that mod I'll just have to put elemental mod and spam those team heath restores (when low on health), making the game less enjoyable. Your supposed fix will make yet another problem.

Edited by Folren
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The whole covert lethality affecting EB needed to be changed. As for the syndicate mods, it wont make that big of a difference in terms of DPS. Exalted Blade will still be able to wreck waves of high level enemies. Majority of players saw this coming from a mile away. People overreact way too much when DE starts to balance things.

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People that say Covert Lethality is useless now are nuts. It still adds +100 base damage to daggers! That's near 200% more base damage. Being able to instant kill with finishers makes up for the slow animation speed. You're also invincible while doing finishers. So many people just want easy mode.

While yes, 100+ base damage is the best thing you can put on a dagger, it doesn't make daggers actually decent, especially given how TERRIBLE dagger stances are. Also no, instant kills aren't worth the slow animation at all. You can instant kill nearly anything without slow animations, so why would you choose the worse of two options? Who even wants to be invincible, not being stuck in a cruddy animation lock sounds a lot nicer than being invincible. Invincible and unable to move is the complete opposite of fun gameplay.

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I just paid 20 plt for this mod yesterday and now its worthless. Why do these OP parts of Warframe have to go from totally overpowered to completely useless? Maybe instead of lethal damage, stealth damage could be buffed 500%... Its a very niche mod, as it only applies to daggers and previously benifited

 

I understand the need for balance, the nova changes made sense, the syndicate keys made sense, the syndicate weapon energy changes made sense but this ones a pain. This change (nerf, really, as the only thing that's changed is a large amount of power being removed from the mod) doesn't balance covert lethality, it makes it irrelevant. Very disappointing. 

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I think the nerf to covert lethality is a bit overdone.  I understand that it needs a nerf, but if you are modded decently stealth finishers will almost always result in a kill anyway.  I would think that a boost to damage instead of instant kill would be more fair than making the effect only come into play on something as rare as finishers considering how bad daggers are otherwise.

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First THANK YOU for making a decision on this, way too many threads.
 

But not allowing Syndicate mods to be used will force players to bring a less powerful weapon and pray never run out of energy.

 

I would suggest that Syndicate mods should be converted to extra base damage when using EB,

 

As it stands now this frame goes into the "use to be fun" pile. I won't be using it. 

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No syndicate mods ? OK nerf Trinity(Invicible) and stationary Mesa ! No more Mesa + EV Trin + Frost "Veteran-pro groups" And yes, with CL nerf i agree but why syndicate mods jeeez? Just make more mods for nikanas, axes, etc. (Just my humble opinion)

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While yes, 100+ base damage is the best thing you can put on a dagger, it doesn't make daggers actually decent, especially given how TERRIBLE dagger stances are. Also no, instant kills aren't worth the slow animation at all. You can instant kill nearly anything without slow animations, so why would you choose the worse of two options? Who even wants to be invincible, not being stuck in a cruddy animation lock sounds a lot nicer than being invincible. Invincible and unable to move is the complete opposite of fun gameplay.

Because there are things that you can't instant kill....

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And so the inevitable chain of Exalted Blade nerfs begins.

 

Going to miss being able rely on Bright Purity for health instead of Life Strike. Maybe if DE actually started releasing more Syndicate weapon augments, it would be more than just "two melee weapons". Hell, they could have made the +projectile speed Kestrel augment also affect Exalted Blade projectiles.

 

It's quite hilarious, actually. With this change, people wanting to use Skana AND Exalted Blade will run into a problem. If they want to completely minmax Skana, they HAVE to use Bright Purity, which will waste a potential slot that could be used for more Exalted Blade damage. If they want to completely minmax Exalted Blade, they CANNOT use Bright Purity, which puts a huge handicap on the effectiveness of the Skana. Meanwhile, anyone who favors any other melee weapon besides Cleavers gets the best of both worlds. The augments are supposed to be reasons to use these weapons. You've essentially made them the exact opposite.

 

This is a fine example of nerfing a playstyle too much. In an attempt to eliminate the meta, you've established a new one; now instead of ONLY Skana/Cleavers, it's ANYTHING BUT Skana/Cleavers.

 

Wanna know what the funniest part about this is? If augments actually had their own slot, this problem could have been completely avoided.

Let's be honest -- you were not going to use the Skana or Cleavers over Exalted Blade.

Edited by S7ORM
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Tenno,
 
Today Covert Lethality will be changed from ‘lethal damage if undetected’ to ‘lethal damage on stealth-finishers’. Covert Lethality is supposed to grant Lethal Damage for stealth tactics and not ground-slamming or obliterating blind enemies. We know this may come as a disappointment as many Tenno have sworn their life to the power of this Mod however the myriad of unintended uses was proving more powerful than intended.
 
After considering the use of Covert Lethality for Exalted Blade a debate ensued about the use of melee Mods that are specific to certain weapons; again, it was decided that while we intended for certain melee Mods to amplify Exalted Blade it didn't make sense for all melee Mods to apply. For example, currently the buff from Justice Blades works for Exalted Blade even though the mod is an augment for the Dual Cleavers.
 
Next week we intend to limit the Melee mods that work with Exalted Blade strictly to generic mods (ie: Pressure Point, Molten Impact, etc) but not weapon-specific augments. We appreciate that this will remove certain fitting strategies however we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons.
 
We hope that you will agree that this is better for Warframe balance and makes conceptual sense for how you would expect the power to work.

 

Can we keep the ability-enacted-finisher insta-kills?

Like, Paralysis finishers? Any gamemode I can think of that has unalerted enemies is not high enough level to warrant using an insta-kill mod for -- you can kill anything in those missions anyways, with finisher damage and the stealth bonus.

Edited by S7ORM
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After considering the use of Covert Lethality for Exalted Blade a debate ensued about the use of melee Mods that are specific to certain weapons; again, it was decided that while we intended for certain melee Mods to amplify Exalted Blade it didn't make sense for all melee Mods to apply. For example, currently the buff from Justice Blades works for Exalted Blade even though the mod is an augment for the Dual Cleavers.

 
Next week we intend to limit the Melee mods that work with Exalted Blade strictly to generic mods (ie: Pressure Point, Molten Impact, etc) but not weapon-specific augments. We appreciate that this will remove certain fitting strategies however we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons.

 

Then the Skana Augment should be equippable in Excalibur's utility slot. IMO.

Edited by VKhaun

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Can we get a mod that deals extra damage on ragdolled/knockdowned enemies as a supplement?

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So...to balance a mod you made that was meant to help out daggers and bring them up...you nerf it into the ground by having them only have a use on stealth kills, when you can't stealth kill like a whole type of enemy? (robots) The quick stab makes more sense then having to slowly slit the guys neck.

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Well, I applaud the limitation vis a vis Covert Lethality and Exalted Blade.  I am a /little/ disappointed at losing faction mods with E Blade, but it isn't /that/ huge a loss.  I would have preferred if you had just released more faction weapon mods already, but I can deal.

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Maybe better make some sort of lethal attacks, such as all the finishers from invisibility are lethal, but there still a small chance of a lethal attack in the face, say 3-4%.

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