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Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes


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And Excalibur and the Prisma Skana go back into the untouched closet. Could you stop destroy-nerfing one damage-frame per hotfix please? soon literally everyone will be exclusively playing trinity + mesa + crowd control for EVERY mission type, or CC-Frames only

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Am I the only one that doesn't care that much about these changes?

I never used a sword with my Excalibur and Exalted blade works just fine. Tho I have to agree with people complaining about finishers being too slow to make use of the Covert Lethality mod.

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Am I the only one that doesn't care that much about these changes?

I never used a sword with my Excalibur and Exalted blade works just fine. Tho I have to agree with people complaining about finishers being too slow to make use of the Covert Lethality mod.

Nah same here. The Fury mod should get a buff like the fire rate mods giving double the fire rate for Bows. Fury should cut the time stealth finishers take to kill in half. Edited by BioEraser
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It's probably been said enough, but really, taking away syndicate mods from EB is a bad decision.  Yes, it is true that players gravitated towards weapons like Prisma Skana, Dual Cleavers, and the like.  But just take a step back to consider what this ultimately means in the long-run.  You're changing the Excalibur Meta by making these weapons less viable, both for EB and the weapons themselves, rather than making other weapons more viable.

 

By making these mods obselete, you are taking away a potential damage increase from the used mod slot by these mods.  If the weapons themselves without EB are to be viable, they generally need these mods.  Without these mods, those weapons won't be carried to end-game content.  What you're ultimately doing is simply shrinking the pool of weapons that excalibur can bring, rather than increasing it.

 

Anybody who tries to cover all his bases will see that to increase your damage with EB, you want True Steel, Berserker, and Fury.  This means that just like the weapons mentioned above, the player will gravitate towards weapons with considerable crit chance, so that the weapon AND Exalted Blade will benefit together, rather than one over the other.  That will be lost by taking these syndicate mods away from EB, meaning players will move along to Scindo Prime, Dakra Prime, Galatine, Gram(most won't, but I would, since this thing was my cherry melee), Dragon Nikana, Yada yada yada, which were already entirely viable without the syndicate mods for EB.  All that will happen here with the removal of these mods is that you will obliterate the top-tier weapon selection for Excalibur, leaving him with a larger weapon pool in comparison, but ultimately shrinking the amount of weapons that are truly viable for Excalibur while also being viable for end-game.  At the same time, it's really just a general EB nerf.

 

Personally, I liked to look of how both Excalibur and Frost have been changed.  They've been given kits that help them scale further into the game without entirely mitigating enemy scaling.  Isn't that the problem that people complain about in warframe?  The problem where teams gravitate towards damage mitigation through the casting of simple abilities and removal of interaction (IE Loki Disarm, Limbo, Mesa, Old Excal)?

 

Covert Lethality was definitely OP.  It should NOT work in tandem with EB.  In my honest opinion, the fix for daggers should not have come in the form of a mod that doesn't actually solve their problems.  It made daggers viable, but for all of the wrong reasons.  There should never be a mod that simply bypasses any form of scaling or armor/health/shields.

 

My 2 cents for a potential fix should come in the form of a very large damage multipler, specific to finisher attacks listed on Stance mods.  People are obviously upset over the change to finisher attacks for the mod, but a big portion of the concern is because of how clunky and time-consuming finisher attacks are.  Isn't that a clear indication that finishers need an overhaul?  There needs to be some kind of method that allows for quick finishers, that could even potentially include multiple targets within a small area that could be affected by both attack speed and range mods.  Finishers like this should also be able to be performed by players that are capable of repositioning themselves without being noticed, invisible or not, to enemies that are engaging others, or are on the move.  This would require a big overhaul to the enemy detection and identification system, which already needs to happen in the first place.

 

For the people thinking that you should be able to go loki or ash and spin-attack/ground slam for years with bodies dropping left and right, just stop a second and ask if it's even remotely logical that such a small weapon cutting you at your shins, or even just smacking the ground next to you, should be able to instantly kill you.  It makes so much more sense that an accurate, well-timed attack to a critical portion of the body would be enough to kill an individual near-instantaneously.

 

Daggers should be the go-to weapon for stealth gameplay, with the intention of killing enemies that that are unalerted to YOUR presence, not necessarily always the entirety of the team.  Spamming a dagger shouldn't 1-hit KO 100 enemies in a T4 survival.  Thinking about how to approach your attack on a small group of targets should reward the player.

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Nah same here. The Fury mod should get a buff like the fire rate mods giving double the fire rate for Bows. Fury should cut the time stealth finishers take to kill in half.

Thats actually a pretty good suggestion, I don't know if people already sugested this in the past but you should make a post about it. Btw I think people are being a bit too salty.

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Wait wait wait.

 

You want to make it so Excalibur users use more than just 1 or 2 weapons, but...

 

1.He only gets a 10% damage boost off of Nikanas, Long Swords, and Dual Blades.

 

2.You're HAMPERING THE USEFULNESS OF CERTAIN WEAPONS.  Now there's no point to using the Prisma Skana with EB when I could use the Dragon Nikana, or the Galatine.

 

3.You blame players for using certain weapons with augments, but they're using those because the augment is useful.  You're essentially punishing players just for using viable weapons.  If you want more weapon variety, then instead of focusing on Conclave, a mode which is secondary to the main game of Warframe, make more Weapon augment mods.  I'd LOVE to see an Augment for Nikanas, or an Augment for the Jat Kittag.

 

I'm fine with the Covert Lethality nerf, but the logic on the EB nerf is dubious at best.

 

So, in summary: Digital Extremes, you are making weapons less useful because you want them to use more weapons.  This train of logic makes no sense.

 

Edit:I do want to note, the nerf honestly doesn't affect me.  I never used the Prisma Skana anyway, and stuck with the various other weapons I used.  But DE's thought process on this is something I simply cannot understand.

 

Galantine is a heavy blade weapon same as Scindo. It's not a long sword. Just an FYI for you if you're wanting to make use of Excal's passive.

Edited by f3llyn
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You realize the enemies scale infinity right? It needs a balance not a nerf into the ground and S#&$ i dont even use daggers.

Also why are you bragging about your pathetic steam hours. Your real time is shown ingame on your profile and i'm sure it'll be a lot less you filthy casul.

No need to be rude, I have 80 days in the game counter which is around 1.9k hours, so let's not throw around assumptions. I mention the Steam hours because it shows that at 80 days in game, a 29% usage time on Excalibur is a damn good indicator I know my way around the frame.

 

I have no comment on the Covert Lethality mod changes, as I believe that single/dual daggers should have been re-balanced instead of given a band-aid mod, but this change is hardly making Exalted Blade useless as so many people believe. Even without syndicate mods/CL, Exalted Blade will still stand just fine against enemies in the 80-120 level range, and that's my personal testing in Tower missions solo. Use Blind frequently, and that level range goes to 120-150 (again, by my personal tests). Use finishers instead of wave spam, and who knows when you'll stop one hitting; my build only drains 1 energy a second to boot, which is insane efficiency for the killing power it offers.

 

I'm an Excalibur fan, he and Chroma will always be my favorite frames. But insta-killing literally anyone with wave-spam is broken. Excalibur is plenty powerful with syndicate mods and CL.

 

EDIT: I'm just struggling to understand all the salt about the Excalibur changes. He still deals insane damage with almost no downsides, he just won't get a free AOE nuke/status, stat buff, and free base damage buff to his ultimate. For this removal of a broken feature, you can run any melee weapon and not feel as though you're gimping yourself.

 

I feel like people who are complaining, and crying "OMG Excalibur is useless now!" either haven't played him for more than five hours, don't have good mods/don't understand how to mod for Exalted Blade, or consider a normal level range 150+ (considering the game's "official" raid is level 70-80, and 150 is only really possible with cheesing tactics or hyper damage mitigation (i.e. Chroma Life Strike melee build, Trinity, etc...) these people really shouldn't try to change everything to be use-able at those triple digit levels).

 

Excalibur is far from useless. He is still an amazing frame. Before you complain, do you want to go back to pre-rework Excalibur? Yeah, me neither.

Edited by Magneu
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Covert Lethality will be working as intended, just really slow.

Excalibur nerfed; weapons with augments won't be an option on him since a mod slot is going to waste, but those mods are needed to make the weapons worthwhile.

 

Might be worth fixing finishers and weapon balance.

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Ok, you guys don't seem to get it the Syndicate mods were made to be used for those weapons NOT for Exalted Blade which is why they removed the ability to use them with exalted blade because EB became brokenly OP with them. 

 

SERIOUSLY don't get how one shotting things is "Fun" looks more like a cakewalk to me, unless you people like absolutely no challenge what-so-ever since with Exalted blade and the Syndicate mods he could essentially solo T3/T4's endless' without the worry of Hp or energy for long periods of time and if that isn't an issue I don't know what is. 

 

You people need to realize that even without the EB+Syn Mods, EB can STILL do a crap ton of damage.

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So instead of releasing new melee augments that provide increases to different stats that could carry over to EB to give players the opportunity to craft different builds with different melee weapons, therein expanding the 'meta' of weapons used. You simply remove the augments affecting them.

Edited by Haldos
Cleaning.
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I can understand making Covert Lethality work on Stealth finishers even if that makes the mod rather weak and something of a waste of a mod slot; but I feel that the Exalted Blade change to not allow augments in general was unneeded. Its a shame, but I am used to Excalibur being made worse after being improved. Hopefully, improvements will come in future updates instead of ruining interesting interactions and the fun that the game has in it.

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PLEASE GIVE EXALTED BLADE ITS OWN MOD SLOTS SECTION SO WE CAN FREELY MOD OUR MELEE WEAPONS!!!

-snip-

Well, besides the caps "screaming", that part of the quote is right, it can actually help a whole bunch.

I'd also add this change: Make it so Excalibur's passive is a plain 10% attack speed and/or 10% damage with ANY melee weapon (don't pidgeonhole him to just swords). Those 2 things solves so much:

 

* Non-specifc melee passive allows players to use whatever melee they want. It won't interfere with Exalted Blade.

* The melee of your choice can be modded however you want, syndicate mods and all are all valid builds. It won't interfere/restrict/buff/overpower Exalted Blade whatsoever, as it is simply modded seperately

 

Really, this would be the best thing they could do to fix any current and future problems with Exalted Blade. Same goes for Hysteria *cough cough*

Edited by Azamagon
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Again, they ( DE ) should really learn not to overdo things... This includes buffs and nerfs. Covert Lethality change is justified, really, although I think they should really improve stealth finishers for it to be actually useful now. But I can't help but feel that Syndicate mod change was needless. 

Edited by Haldos
Cleaning.
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We appreciate that this will remove certain fitting strategies however we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons.

 

 

Did it ever occur to you guys that instead of nerfing that you could just add other weapons to the list - if this was actually the intention? So instead of disappointing and angering people who have seen way too many nerfs in only a few weeks you make Covert Lethality work more like people are utilizing it for and at the same time solve the "Excalibur with only one or two weapons" issue. How about a positive solution for once?

 

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Would simply replace:

 

F1UAzfm.png

 

And limiting it to finisher damage only is just taking it too far, we all know it might not have been intended for certain weapons, or even for Exalted Blade - but it IS for stealth kills and not finishers - even the name implies that and says nothing about Finishers (we already have a mod to increase finisher strength). That is just wrong.

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Ok, you guys don't seem to get it the Syndicate mods were made to be used for those weapons NOT for Exalted Blade which is why they removed the ability to use them with exalted blade because EB became brokenly OP with them. 

 

SERIOUSLY don't get how one shotting things is "Fun" looks more like a cakewalk to me, unless you people like absolutely no challenge what-so-ever since with Exalted blade and the Syndicate mods he could essentially solo T3/T4's endless' without the worry of Hp or energy for long periods of time and if that isn't an issue I don't know what is. 

 

You people need to realize that even without the EB+Syn Mods, EB can STILL do a crap ton of damage.

The correct purpose for syndicate mods, at least from DE has told us, was as a means to make lower preforming weapons more viable in late game. This change does exactly the opposite of that situation by making the mods now a hindrance to late game performance for Excaliblur. 

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Go one shot some level 80 grineer or infested healer ancients and get back to me.  I don't do cake walk. I do dark souls. I needed the perks from Bright Purity damnit

 

Without this, I'll never use a Skana Prime again because it's [Low Tier]

Warframe0002_zpsr3mxwdef.jpg

Warframe0001_zpszhzyl5wi.jpg

 

Upped the ante.

 

Who else can one shot level 100 enemies on demand?

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Next week we intend to limit the Melee mods that work with Exalted Blade strictly to generic mods (ie: Pressure Point, Molten Impact, etc) but not weapon-specific augments.

So does that mean that the Skana augment won't work with EB anymore?

 

Well... that's a little saddening.

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Not we abuse syndicate mods - you abuse syndicate mods as a replacement for a rebalance of those weapons which then become so strong that we are left without a choice. Just make them weapon independant as the community has suggested from day 1.

 

Can you tell us what Covert Lethality is good for when it only affects finisher attacks which - as some already pointed out are - are deadly anyways in most game situations where they are used.

 

Where is our choice for stealth weapons when only daggers are deadly. I remember that you discussed if finisher moves should always be deadly or not - so now only dagger finisher moves are deadly as half baken solution ?

 

Why not add mods that give energy / health / drop chance on stealth kill which would be useful without limiting us to a weapon type. Heck a stealth drop chance mod might even make us play stealth in a team. But we got a dagger only OP mod which now is a dagger only ammo drum.

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Couldn't they just removed

 

1: EB from working with it

 

2: Slam attacks working on it.

 

Stealth finishers are useless, just slow down gameplay, and usually area  1 hit kill if you mod properly anyway. 

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Honestly, and I may get eaten alive by all the excalibur players for this, but I have to agree that EB needs a debuff or two. The one thing I hate is seeing a bunch of enemies come at me, and I'm ready to fire on them, and suddenly they are in a corpse pile because some Excalibur rushed from behind and took them all out with almost one hit from EB. Yes, though it is my job to stay back and keep the group alive for the most part when I'm in my Trinity, I do occasionally like to pop a cap in some enemy butt with my Prisma Grakata or, if I've decided to brush the dust off my Valkyr, to go into Hysteria mode and tear them apart. Seeing the EB go off and not even leaving me a bit of the fight left can get annoying.

 

My question is, what is the fun in one-shotting enemies anyway? I can understand it for stealth, but not when I am in a bad mood and want to make my prey suffer a little first. But then, that's my naughty side talking.

 

ADDED: I also forgot to mention that it's really annoying to see enemies die before I have a chance to tag them with Energy Vampire when I am playing my Trinity. I like to try to keep my group's power up but it's hard when every Excalibur and his brother's killing them before I have a chance to pop EV on them. Just sayin'.

 

I've said my piece. I'll just dip myself in ketchup and wait for the inevitable butt chewing I'm about to get.

 

(Reason for latest edit: Fixed a few grammar errors.)

Edited by Cougarmint
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For example, currently the buff from Justice Blades works for Exalted Blade even though the mod is an augment for the Dual Cleavers.

 

 

Megan, could you clarify this for us?

 

Are you referring only to the 100% damage buff Dual Cleavers gets, or are you saying [iboth the damage buff and the Syndicate radial buff are to be removed?

 

I wouldn't mind if it's the former, but if it's the latter it would be pretty disappointing. The Syndicate effects are useful but unreliable, and a lot of fun.

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Honestly, and I may get eaten alive for this by all the excalibur players for this, but I have to agree that EB needs a debuff or two. The one thing I hate is seeing a bunch of enemies come at me, and I'm ready to fire on them, and suddenly they are in a corpse pile because some Excalibur rushed from behind and took them all out with almost one hit from EB. Yes, my job is to stay back and keep the group alive for the most part (when I'm in my Trinity), I do occasionally like to pop a cap in or even go Hysteria (as my Valkyr) some enemy butt. Seeing the EB go off and not even leaving me a bit of the fight left can get annoying.

 

My question is, what is the fun in one-shotting enemies anyway? I can understand it for stealth, but not when I am in a bad mood and want to make my prey suffer a little first. But then, that's my naughty side talking.

 

ADDED: I also forgot to mention that it's really annoying to see enemies die before I have a chance to tag them with Energy Vampire when I am playing my Trinity. I like to try to keep my group's power up but it's hard when every Excalibur and his brother's killing them before I have a chance to pop EV on them. Just sayin'.

 

I've said my piece. I'll just dip myself in ketchup and wait for the inevitable butt chewing I'm about to get.

THANK YOU! You're one of the few people in this thread who understand what Megan meant when she said that these changes are for overall game balance. Obliterating the entire screen with no effort/almost no energy usage up to end game levels was just stupid, and made the game not fun for people who were in squads with Excalibur 99% of the time (that said, I've played with some awesome team-player Excals recently).

 

Balance is supposed to be a thing in games, but whenever it interferes with someone's favorite FOTM OP thing, it's suddenly bad. 

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