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Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes


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Everyone may complain about this change, but I think it makes sense not only from a mechanical/ balancing standpoint but also from a logical, in game reason, as Megan explained. I'm not one to preach, but please respect the hard work and difficult decisions the Dev team makes, as making a game with this size and scope that must also appeal to much of its fanbase is a daunting task. 

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"avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons."

 

 

You gave excal

Master Swordsman

Excalibur has improved proficiency in the Tenno art of the blade, receiving +10% attack speed and +10% damage when dealing melee attacks (including via Exalted Blade) while wielding the following weapons:

 

so you have ALREADY limited the weapons excal will want to use, as his BASE PASSIVE...

 

So nerfing syndicate augments for this reason, makes no sense, have have a limitation built into the frame.

 

you can use, 5-7 different syndicate augments?

 

The problem was that with the syndicate mods working on EB, min maxers were automatically limited to the Prisma Skana or Skana. I will even admit I was one of them and used the Prisma Skana only with Excal's Exalted Blade builds.

 

Now you have a plethora of weapons to choose from even if you care about that small bonus the passive gives you.

 

Many people don't even know about the passive or don't care. It's not game changing, it's a 10% buff. Almost negligible. So nothing has been lost and a lot has been gained.

 

I'll go back to using my Tipedo now cos I love it's reliability and speed and can still mod it for EB.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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... wow...

 

... just wow...

 

... the amount of people that follow strict build is~... wow...

 

... wow again...

 

DE, you should probably make some kind of an exhaust for the forums or something, since there's a lot of venting... for no reason whatsoever. Don't take me wrong, fellow Tenno, "no reason whatsoever" strictly for me... I was fine with the old Excalibur, the one that everyone said it was "THEE MOST USELESS WARFRAME EVAH!!!!!!", and was actually reaching pretty high levels with a 150% prefferencial build, including equipment and mods, that simply never worked, never works and never will work for pretty much everyone else... Yet, DE reworked Excalibur into -exactly- what I assumed he would be, minus the armor increment...

 

... Great. Now, instead of fighting without any ability use against enemies of lvl160 with 65 Armor, I can reach enemies around lvl200 or lvl210 under the same conditions, and I'm even harder to kill thanks to the new movement system (which, btw, is perfect. As someone that actually practices parkour, the new movement system is a lot more intuitive than the old one.)

 

Now, what you all have to understand is that... We, as humans, are flawed. The first thing we do when we find something new is to find ways to exploit it to our advantage. I confess that I also have that tick but I end up not exploiting anything because, as if it isn't obvious enough, none of you can resist it. Intentional or not. As developers, DE is only fixing what needs to be fixed. of course, in your twisted view, everything is deemed as either "nerf" and "boost" because we only see things black and white. For me, and it appears that its the same for DE Staff, I see it as necessary adjustments. For example, if I was the one fixing stuff, I would probably didn't even allow mods to modify Exalted Blade... Come on, short duration blind on queue everytime I slide slash with it? Really? Finishers on queue on every blinded target? Really? Is it really necessary for mods to affect Exalted Blade? I don't think it is. They help, of course, but they're absolutely not necessary. Anyway, this is just an example.

 

Now, picking on something else, and this isn't even because I'm using the specified weapon:

(...)

And Dread's slash damage.

 

... Charoy, there's absolutely no need for butthurting about Dread's slash damage... Its PvP 2.0, Status Change isn't even fully implemented. Also, for those that think that Status Change isn't going to be implemented on PvP 2.0, here's some food for thought... When PvP 2.0 was first implemented, the whole damage system used was what I call as "Damage System 1.0". PvE damage system is what I call as "Damage System 2.0"... Well, take a guess into what is the damage system on PvP 2.0 turning into.

 

... Or, Charoy, is your intervention based on the fact that you can't kill faster with your weaponry than someone that is using Dread? If so, I suggest you start practicing on how to kill better instead of waiting for your equipment to do it for you... Even more if you are the one using Dread.

 

... Oh yeah, before I forget... Sci_Ant pointed something out that's really~ important... So important that I'm one of those that don't care about the passive. I've noticed that Excalibur now has a passive, but don't really care about it. I'm already highly effective without minmax techniques so, like I said a while ago, my build is 150% prefferencial that only fits for me.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Obviously Covert Lethality wasn't going to stay as it was. One-Shotting everything, regardless of level, in the game as Ash/Loki/Excalibur was ridiculous and needed fixed. Anyone acting upset over that needs to seriously question why they play games at all if they thought something that mindlessly powerful was a good idea. This change still keeps daggers with Covert Lethality quite strong regardless as Ash, Excalibur, Valkyr, and a handful of others can create finisher conditions quite easily. You just can't pop invisibility and then proceed to kill everything

I would like you to expand upon what you're changing about Exalted Blade, specifically; what mods are going to work, and which ones aren't. Fury? Reach? Crit Mods? While you're at it, see if you can't give Hysteria equal treatment. 

Edited by Acos
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I understand the convert legality and stuff, but the weapons augment? come on man! That is the only reason why ppl uses Dual Cleavers and Skana, and now you're gonna remove it? 

 

Those two weapons are still going to be able to use their respective augments, unless you're also using those augments to boost Exalted Blade while having either of those two melee weapons equipped but welded on the scabbard for a permament preservation indended only for museum display.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Hell if you're going to only use Exalted Blade, why even bother about which Melee you're taking with you. Might as well take the Sheev, it won't matter since only the mods on it do.

 

And everyone is now totally free to choose from whatever type or tier of weapon they want. If you're going for an Exalted Blade build it doesn't matter what you choose as long as the mods are correct and if you're going for a Radial Blind build even weak melee weapons will still get boosted by the stealth multipliers and / or melee finishers.

 

I only stated whatever came off the top of my mind, I don't speak for the millions who play this game and may have different weapon choices.

 

Still don't see the argument.

Not everyone can/does use Exalted blade exclusively, and for those who fall into this category this change is a problem. Now a section of weapons have lost viability for their Excal loadout, because why use an augment weapon that can either be good for EB or on their own when you can use weapons that are good for EB and on their own. 

 

So the argument is that by making weapon augments (mods invented for the sole purpose of making lower tier weapons preform in higher tier situations) no longer contribute to EB that we are losing a number of weapons for Excal in the field of viable end-game weapons, because now all augment weapons are a situation of EB with a weak melee or melee with a weak EB. And why would anyone want that when they can just use the few weapons that are top tier without augments to have a good melee and eb, unless for the case of aesthetic. All in all this situation is just reducing the viable choices of weapons for those who play Excal. 

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This change is reasonable enough. What isn't reasonable is that how only a select few type of enemies are open to stealth finishers. For example, roller, ospreys, and moas are some of the enemies that are immune to stealth finishers. What's worse is that since this mod requires enemies to be unalerted, it is not viable in endless missions such as defense, survival, and excavation where it is impossible for the enemy to lose awareness of the player. Even outside of these select missions, losing enemy aggression is illogical, requiring the player to hack a terminal for the enemy to lose aggression, because they have some sort of tracker on you otherwise that lets them sense you through walls to know exactly where you are. 

 

There is also the issue of Excalibur players with a dagger missing out on one whole mod slot for their exalted blade if they decide to equip covert lethality, this gives players even less of a reason to use single daggers. 

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You know, I didn't sell my Sheev because I figured DE might buff daggers or release a fun mod for them.

Then I got CL from a spy mission and thought it might be interesting. 'Oh hey, the reason I have a bad side grade of Heat Dagger instead on 5k credits'.

And it was fun. Unintended or not, bullet jumping to the top of a room and ground slamming amid an unalerted group of mobs just to see them collapse into cinders was extremely satisfying. Made the very short range of daggers seem worth it.

 

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Back to Tonbo.

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Not everyone can/does use Exalted blade exclusively, and for those who fall into this category this change is a problem. Now a section of weapons have lost viability for their Excal loadout, because why use an augment weapon that can either be good for EB or on their own when you can use weapons that are good for EB and on their own. 

 

So the argument is that by making weapon augments (mods invented for the sole purpose of making lower tier weapons preform in higher tier situations) no longer contribute to EB that we are losing a number of weapons for Excal in the field of viable end-game weapons, because now all augment weapons are a situation of EB with a weak melee or melee with a weak EB. And why would anyone want that when they can just use the few weapons that are top tier without augments to have a good melee and eb, unless for the case of aesthetic. All in all this situation is just reducing the viable choices of weapons for those who play Excal. 

 

Exalted Blade at 175 % efficiency is so damn efficient that anyone can keep it going for almost forever in ANY mission. If you are killing enemies with it you WILL get energy back and especially if you have the Rage, Life strike combo or restores. For those people there is no problem, and they are free to choose whatever melee they want. Even if I want to level an unranked melee I could still play with friends, use Exalted Blade with Radial blind and still be useful to the team, while getting xp for my melee from my teammates' kills.

 

Radial Blind only builds are also extremely efficient at killing since you get 10 x damage from any weapon or EB and 100 x damage from finishers. Once again, it does not matter what weapon you take. As long as you can use Excal's other powers such as Radial Blind and Slash Dash to increase your combo multiplier and damage, you can keep killing upto really high levels, making any melee viable.

 

Meaning that if I can use ANY melee weapon coupled with Excalibur's powers with or without using EB, then how is anyone limited to the top tier? Wasn't that the whole point of the Excal rework, to make him a melee focused frame?

 

If you really wanted to play WITHOUT using Radial Blind, WITHOUT using Exalted Blade or WITHOUT using Slash Dash then why are you even playing Excal in the first place? Literally any melee weapon becomes better with his powers and that was already the case even before his rework thanks to the Augments and Radial Blind.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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Man I really relied on the purity/justice syndicate proc to provide health to my excal since he takes quite a bit of damage, especially since the nerf to exalted blade blocking.

 

This. I like to use Skana Prime with My Excal Prime because duh, but Skana Prime isn't really a viable option without the augment.

So you didn't add more weapons for me to use with Excal, you just took away the one I like to use, even though it's not even the best one for the job.

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I'm not hugely bothered by either of these changes. Covert lethality was great, but it let a loki solo T4S until the enemies reach level 9999 without much hassle so I can see why it got nerfed. EB build meta right now is basically "blight/purity or go home", so with this change we'll be able to use any melee we like with EB and that's a good thing.

 

CL still adds +100 base damage even for normal stabbing and it still rewards stealth even if finishers are kind of a hassle in some situations, so it's still useful.

However, if you're removing the ability for EB to proc justice/truth/purity/blight, can you please return EB's 100% damage blocking without channeling? U17's block mechanics change hit Excalibro very hard, and now he's being nerfed again and again.

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To be honest, this is a new kind of low blow DE. 

 

You made exalted blade so it can use augment mod

You buffed it so it can use syndicate power

 

Then you remove altogether those things.

 

You make players attached to something and just kick them in the groin.

 

About the fact that we only use the specific 1-2 melee, the way you changed it people would only likely to wield Dragon Nikana and Dakra Prime since Excalibur got bonuses from them.

 

Instead of nerfing things to the ground, how about buffing other stuff up instead?

Edited by tinyranitar
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Man I really relied on the purity/justice syndicate proc to provide health to my excal since he takes quite a bit of damage, especially since the nerf to exalted blade blocking.

 

Life Strike is an option and can be used on-demand, but it really ate your energy up in ridiculous amounts. The syndicate proc was a great alternative, and had some risk since it's not on-demand.

 

I do agree covert lethality was OP but wan't really concerned with the other mods.

 

Can we get some generic mods that offer some of the functionality of the syndicate procs? I'm still willing to give up a mod slot for it. Maybe even syndicate mods for each faction that is equippable on any primary, secondary, or melee weapon that provides the syndicate proc effect for that weapon?

 

I have a question... Are you the kind of player that stays in the open waiting to get shot on purpose? Maps have lots of corners and props you can use to mitigate the damage you take. I'm not using anything other than the most basic mods and, comparing myself to what you just said, I do not get hit. Comparing to, I assume there is out there, other players with even a tiny spec of useful experience then I rarely get hit... But I still get hit. I wonder, with almost 300 armor points, how do you even manage to get that much damage when you're using your Excalibur.

 

This. I like to use Skana Prime with My Excal Prime because duh, but Skana Prime isn't really a viable option without the augment.

So you didn't add more weapons for me to use with Excal, you just took away the one I like to use, even though it's not even the best one for the job.

 

... honestly, we don't understand "duh" but I'm going to throw a kunai in the dark and hope to hit something vertically placed here... Would that be because its "Prime"? I know that pretty much everything is prefferencial, but sticking yourself at using Primes with Primes simply because its Prime and Primes only go well aesthetically with other Primes doesn't make Primes the Prime for Primed usage. It actually ends up being Primed ridiculous, because any Melee weapon boosts Excal damage with Exalted Blade. I assume that the higher the damage of the Melee weapon, then the higher the bonus on the Exalted Blade.

 

reported for trolling

 

^ I think his controller broke during a Survival when he was trying to run away using the new movement system.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Absolutely heavy handed. I usually defend changes because they are reasonable but this wasn't. EB waves were the biggest offenders, same with slam attacks but instead of focusing on these, the lazy way was used instead and got rid of any connections to them. Instead of leaving the options purely unlimited to any melee in the game, they get dumped back to meta melees.

 

Really guys?

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Since they changed CL to only work on finishers, can u at least make so that all enemies have a finisher animation, since most infested don't have it and neither do MOA's nor Osprey's and I do agree that finishers could be a little faster.

 

As for EB since you are taking away the syndicate effect can we at least have the 100% block with EB back and also I used Bright Purity mainly cus it was +100% to melee compared to Spoiled Strike that makes me use another slot to make up for that atk spd loss.

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About the fact that we only use the specific 1-2 melee, the way you changed it people would only likely to wield Dragon Nikana and Dakra Prime since Excalibur got bonuses from them.

 

Instead of nerfing things to the ground, how about buffing other stuff up instead?

 

Omg, there are a bunch of other weapons Excal gets bonuses from and they are all listed on the wiki clearly.

 

They are :  Dakra Prime, Prisma Skana, Jaw Sword,  Skana Prime, Cronus, Pangolin Sword, Skana, Heat Sword, Plasma Sword, Mire, Dark Sword, Ether Sword, Dual Ichor, Dex Dakra, Dual Zoren, Prisma/Dual Cleavers, Dual Ether, Dual Raza, Nami Skyla, Dual Heat Swords, Dual Kamas, Dual Skana, Dragon/Nikana.

 

And they are ALL viable with the right builds and if you use any of Excalibur's powers they get boosted by 10 to 100 to 400 times with Radial Blind, finishers, Radial Blind augment, Exalted Blade or Slash Dash, Radial Jav and their augments.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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Ew, bummer. 

 

The Exalted Blade thing was obvious, but Finisher only for Covert Lethality is disappointing. Finishers are so slow and cumbersome.

 

 

Not to mention, melee finisher attacks already deal so much damage.  Makes the mod useless - all it does now is turn an instant kill skill into an instant kill skill, except maybe like 2+ hours in the void or something ridiculous which most players will never do.

 

It would be nice if any unalerted enemies took huge damage from your dagger.  All they had to do was disable it from working with exalted blade.

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TBH, I think more Syndicate Weapon Augments and Syndicate Weapons are needed. That would honestly be more awesome, to me [just make sure you don't have a weapon augment that affects a Syndicate weapon. =P That would be horrendous.]

 

Also, when are we going to see the original Boar become acquirable again?

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Not to mention, melee finisher attacks already deal so much damage.  Makes the mod useless - all it does now is turn an instant kill skill into an instant kill skill, except maybe like 2+ hours in the void or something ridiculous which most players will never do.

 

It would be nice if any unalerted enemies took huge damage from your dagger.  All they had to do was disable it from working with exalted blade.

 

You'd think players wouldn't go that far, but some have already reached the 3+ hour mark...

 

Absolute truth, when someone finds an exploit, he/she will exploit to the utmost limits... To get fixed right on the next hotfix.

Edited by Uhkretor
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You'd think players wouldn't go that far, but some have already reached the 3+ hour mark...

 

Absolute truth, when someone finds an exploit, he/she will exploit to the utmost limits... To get fixed right on the next hotfix.

 

They didn't fix anything though.  I could run several hours of void with Banshee using no exploits.  OP exalted blade, who even cares it basically kills all enemies in 1 shot already under an hour in the void, or if you team him up with banshee - will still 1 shot enemies for hours I'm sure.

 

All they did is nerf covert lethality into dust.

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Okay, I'll try to make this susinct:

1. Covert lethality instantly killing blinded enemies with one swipe of energy blade wave was clearly a mistake, and a fix to this is a welcome, understandable change.

 

2. I can see how one might consider 'perm invisible' lokis running around stabbing everything with a knife and insta-killing these things to be a problem

 

However:

3. Syndicate mods working on Eblade seemed fine; if melee mods transfer, they transfer. I think this is an excessive and unneeded nerf.

 

4. With respect to restricting the effects of covert Lethatlity to fnisher animations, there are two issues I personally take with this: First, as has been mentioned, a lot of enemies don't have finisher animations, makeing this useless against them. Second, putting this mod, along with say, a syndicate mod (dark dagger I am talking to you) on will take two mods slots away from EB, using mods that do nothing for EB.

 

Solutions / fixes

1. Give everything a finisher animation

 

2. Make a seperate mod section for EB. Please, if you want people to use a variety of melee weapons with EB, then allow us to mod EB separately. I was personally having a ton of fun with the dark dagger on Excal, specifically because If I want to use a sword, I am going to use EB - therefore my equipped melee weapon, for variety, I want to be different. Not allowing us to mod EB separate from our melee is GOING TO RESTRICT THE WEAPONS WE USE, which is something you stated you didn't want to happen.

 

3. Many are complaining because of the health issue that they helped to resolve by using bright purity. This is compounded by the nerf to weapon blocking. In short: Give EB it's full blocking again, in a small cone in front of excal. This made him tactical, and gave him survivability if carefully manuvered and placed. I see this as perfectly viable, not OP, and it even encourages thoughtful, active gameplay, which is the opposite of press 4 to win.

 

4. Speaking of tactical gameplay, win us excals over in this way: GIVE EXCAL USEFUL COMBOS. Seriously, the first comb is the fastest of them all. Everything else is slower, and according to the wiki page, doesn't actually reward you (in terms of damage of procs or anything else) that much. Why not give us a reason to use combos? I WANT TO USE THEM. I want to play Excal as a tactical swordsman, who has to manuver and do complicated combos which give me great rewards in the end.

 

Okay, I'm done for now. I guess that wasn't so susinct after all.

Edited by CircularReason
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When daggers finally get some love... that sucks really. 

 

I really think most of these disappointing nerfs could be easily avoided if you guys were a bit more careful before releasing mods/weapons/frames, I mean some results are really predictable...

 

About EB, I love Excal, but I really dont like that ability at all so I avoid it completely. But anyway my condolences for those prejudiced by this nerf, I could see it coming though, and I'm afraid it wont stop here... 

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Omg, there are a bunch of other weapons Excal gets bonuses from and they are all listed on the wiki clearly.

 

They are :  Dakra Prime, Prisma Skana, Jaw Sword,  Skana Prime, Cronus, Pangolin Sword, Skana, Heat Sword, Plasma Sword, Mire, Dark Sword, Ether Sword, Dual Ichor, Dex Dakra, Dual Zoren, Prisma/Dual Cleavers, Dual Ether, Dual Raza, Nami Skyla, Dual Heat Swords, Dual Kamas, Dual Skana, Dragon/Nikana.

 

And they are ALL viable with the right builds and if you use any of Excalibur's powers they get boosted by 10 to 100 to 400 times with Radial Blind, finishers, Radial Blind augment, Exalted Blade or Slash Dash, Radial Jav and their augments.

I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse or not, but do me a favor and list those weapons from a meta standpoint. I don't bother with most metapast what general feedback gripes about, but I'm willing to bet those mentioned weapons blow the rest of them out of the water when you take augments out of the equation.

 

I have a question... Are you the kind of player that stays in the open waiting to get shot on purpose? Maps have lots of corners and props you can use to mitigate the damage you take. I'm not using anything other than the most basic mods and, comparing myself to what you just said, I do not get hit. Comparing to, I assume there is out there, other players with even a tiny spec of useful experience then I rarely get hit... But I still get hit. I wonder, with almost 300 armor points, how do you even manage to get that much damage when you're using your Excalibur.

I wonder if DE ever fixed the host/client AI aimbot thing? That's not even the only factor that could be affecting damage intake. Though why anyone should have to take cover in a game that it's own Dev's have stated is against how they want it played is beyond me. 225 is almost 300 now? If 75% is as good as 100% I suppose you may be on to something.

 

... honestly, we don't understand "duh" but I'm going to throw a kunai in the dark and hope to hit something vertically placed here... Would that be because its "Prime"? I know that pretty much everything is prefferencial, but sticking yourself at using Primes with Primes simply because its Prime and Primes only go well aesthetically with other Primes doesn't make Primes the Prime for Primed usage. It actually ends up being Primed ridiculous, because any Melee weapon boosts Excal damage with Exalted Blade. I assume that the higher the damage of the Melee weapon, then the higher the bonus on the Exalted Blade.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that maybe, just maybe, he wants his gear to match? It must be a popular thing since DE started to release those themed weapons sets to cater to Tenno of similar mindset.

 

All of this post, really.

Did you go to the beach today? Because you seem to have sand in your nether regions.

You should rinse that out.

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