So What Exactly Was The Point Of The Syndicates?

[motorfirebox]

I don't really see how this is a problem with the syndicates. DE nerfs stuff all the time, it's not like they reserve that for syndicate stuff.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I don't really see how this is a problem with the syndicates. DE nerfs stuff all the time, it's not like they reserve that for syndicate stuff.

Because getting things from syndicates takes a lot more effort. You have to grind rep daily, deal with pointless but annoying hit squads, waste taters and rare prime drops, plus the components to make some of the parts, all to get these items.  Additionally, the items that the mods are augmenting tends to be fairly bad on its own, and you still have to put in the effort to obtain it too. To avoid all that grind, other people pay significant plat for both (e.g. buying a Mag + G-Pull, buying Prisma Skana + Bright Purity).

 

A lot of the time the item isn't worth using without the mods so when the augment is nerfed, you lose out double. The weapons are a major pain to obtain as well and take ridiculous amounts/days of grinding, so when they are nerfed into being nearly useless, it becomes a major issue as well.

[motorfirebox]

Maybe so, but syndicate gear is still, even after all the nerfs, some of the best gear available. The Synoid got nerfed, but it's still a top tier sidearm. EB doesn't use syndicate mods anymore, but syndicate weapon mods still make the weapons worthwhile.

Edited August 17, 2015 by motorfirebox

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Maybe so, but syndicate gear is still, even after all the nerfs, some of the best gear available. The Synoid got nerfed, but it's still a top tier sidearm. EB doesn't use syndicate mods anymore, but syndicate weapon mods still make the weapons worthwhile.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

[motorfirebox]

*shrug* You're disagreeing with a significant portion of the player base, then. I can still sell a Synoid for 35P, when most of the other faction weapons have dropped down to 20 or so. Then there's all the ability mods, useless junk like Irradiating Disarm and Vampire Leech.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

*shrug* You're disagreeing with a significant portion of the player base, then. I can still sell a Synoid for 35P, when most of the other faction weapons have dropped down to 20 or so. Then there's all the ability mods, useless junk like Irradiating Disarm and Vampire Leech.

That's because a people heard about it being good, and never heard about the nerf. They are easy prey for unscrupulous merchants. The only Syndicate weapon that is still worth having is the Vaykor Marelok.

[Marthrym]

I think the point is that the time and "effort" invested/rewards ratio is completely broken here. There is so much more hassle than there is juicy stuff, especially with the consecutive nerfs several of the rewards suffered. The devs DO NOT know how to balance their game, plain and simple. They take rushed decisions, have knee jerk reactions to problems that either don't have their roots where they change things or outright don't exist! How is that good?

 

Example : The synoid Gammacor. Everyone short of a few individuals agreed that the DAMAGE it dealt was too much. What does logic dictate here? To tone down the damage of course. And yet, our dear devs had the "genius" to nerf the ammo consumption rate to the ground instead. Now we have a shiny beam gun that sucks up so much ammo it's simply not viable for anything other than killing a heavy here and there (and I haven't seen one for MONTHS, seriously), which could actually be "good" if other weapons didn't also fill that role, only without the stupidely high ammo consumption rate. And please, for the love of the Lotus, justifying this with bandaid mods is plain moronism, I'm sorry but that's just what it is. You cannot justify such a nonsensical choice where the logical one was so painfully obvious, with a "use pistol ammo mod" every time. Many secondaries suffer from an excrutiatingly high ammo consumption rate and are mostly ignored despite these "miraculous" mods, by vets and new players alike. What does that tell you? That most players, including the most experienced ones, are stupid? Or that there is indeed something wrong here? something that the ammo mutation mods cannot fix alone?

 

The problem lies in DE's vision, or rather lack of vision, of what balance means. They break more stuff than they fix every time they change something that revolves around what's actually broken : the CORE of this game. The scaling system, the ammo drops, the damage based abilities and their non-viability at higher levels, while CC abilities are the only ones that matter, the severe lack of "endgame", story and lore, and the list goes on and on and on.

 

I get that focusing on the bad only is toxic, that there are good things, great things even, that came to be in Warframe this year alone, and that balancing a game, creating vertical content is a lot harder than creating horizontal content, that keeping the whole thing stable is easier said than done, but there's too much bad here, bad that has been around for too long too, to just shrug and ignore. This is the "year of quality". After 8 months, I'm still waiting for that quality.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Marthrym

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I think the point is that the time and "effort" invested/rewards ratio is completely broken here. There is so much more hassle than there is juicy stuff, especially with the consecutive nerfs several of the rewards suffered. The devs DO NOT know how to balance their game, plain and simple. They take rushed decisions, have knee jerk reactions to problems that either don't have their roots where they change things or outright don't exist! How is that good?

 

Example : The synoid Gammacor. Everyone short of a few individuals agreed that the DAMAGE it dealt was too much. What does logic dictate here? To tone down the damage of course. And yet, our dear devs had the "genius" to nerf the ammo consumption rate to the ground instead. Now we have a shiny beam gun that sucks up so much ammo it's simply not viable for anything other than killing a heavy here and there (and I haven't seen one for MONTHS, seriously), which could actually be "good" if other weapons didn't also fill that role, only without the stupidely high ammo consumption rate. And please, for the love of the Lotus, justifying this with bandaid mods is plain moronism, I'm sorry but that's just what it is. You cannot justify such a nonsensical choice where the logical one was so painfully obvious, with a "use pistol ammo mod" every time. Many secondaries suffer from an excrutiatingly high ammo consumption rate and are mostly ignored despite these "miraculous" mods, by vets and new players alike. What does that tell you? That most players, including the most experienced ones, are stupid? Or that there is indeed something wrong here? something that the ammo mutation mods cannot fix alone?

 

The problem lies in DE's vision, or rather lack of vision, of what balance means. They break more stuff than they fix every time they change something that revolves around what's actually broken : the CORE of this game. The scaling system, the ammo drops, the damage based abilities and their non-viability at higher levels, while CC abilities are the only ones that matter, the severe lack of "endgame", story and lore, and the list goes on and on and on.

 

I get that focusing on the bad only is toxic, that there are good things, great things even, that came to be in Warframe this year alone, and that balancing a game, creating vertical content is a lot harder than creating horizontal content, that keeping the whole thing stable is easier said than done, but there's too much bad here, bad that has been around for too long too, to just shrug and ignore. This is the "year of quality". After 8 months, I'm still waiting for that quality.

Beautifully said.

[motorfirebox]

Man, they "didn't hear about the nerf"? Are you kidding? Nobody talked about anything else for like a month. At the end of the day, it has the same overall damage output as it did previously; you just have to grab ammo for it more frequently. It has the second-highest sustained DPS of any secondary, and the only one that beats it is a shotgun. If you don't like it, if it doesn't suit your style, that's fine. But it is numerically on-par or superior to any other secondary in the game. And that's before the proc.

 

DE nerfs everything. They have a tendency to introduce stuff that's wildly overpowered, and then bring it down to par. Sometimes they go overboard with the nerfs (shotguns pre-17), sometimes not. Syndicates aren't special in that regard, and every syndicate has at least several items worth picking up even though some of it has been nerfed from its initial state. The idea that these nerfs make syndicates not worth pursuing is a non-starter.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Man, they "didn't hear about the nerf"? Are you kidding? Nobody talked about anything else for like a month. At the end of the day, it has the same overall damage output as it did previously; you just have to grab ammo for it more frequently. It has the second-highest sustained DPS of any secondary, and the only one that beats it is a shotgun. If you don't like it, if it doesn't suit your style, that's fine. But it is numerically on-par or superior to any other secondary in the game. And that's before the proc.

 

DE nerfs everything. They have a tendency to introduce stuff that's wildly overpowered, and then bring it down to par. Sometimes they go overboard with the nerfs (shotguns pre-17), sometimes not. Syndicates aren't special in that regard, and every syndicate has at least several items worth picking up even though some of it has been nerfed from its initial state. The idea that these nerfs make syndicates not worth pursuing is a non-starter.

It's really not that good. It's good on paper because of the DPS, but you won't get that max DPS because you need to waste 2 slots dealing with the ammo consumption and can't put any fire rate increasing mods on it. It performs great in the simulator but try taking it endless missions, and it falls apart.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

About that:

DPS for the Synoid Gammacor is still the same, but just with less ammo efficiency. Just slap on an Ammo Mutation mod if you really run out of ammo at a frequent rate while using it, or plan to use it for extended periods of time.

--> nerfed

[motorfirebox]

It's really not that good. It's good on paper because of the DPS, but you won't get that max DPS because you need to waste 2 slots dealing with the ammo consumption and can't put any fire rate increasing mods on it. It performs great in the simulator but try taking it endless missions, and it falls apart.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Personally, I stopped using it for the same reason I don't use Boltor Prime. Like I keep saying, every syndicate has at least a few items worth picking up. You're not sold on the Synoid? Resonance, Savage Silence, Vexing Retaliation, Chilling Globe, Hall of Malevolence, Total Eclipse, Perpetual Vortex... and those are just the ones that I like.

Edited August 17, 2015 by motorfirebox

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Personally, I stopped using it for the same reason I don't use Boltor Prime. Like I keep saying, every syndicate has at least a few items worth picking up. You're not sold on the Synoid? Resonance, Savage Silence, Vexing Retaliation, Chilling Globe, Hall of Malevolence, Total Eclipse, Perpetual Vortex... and those are just the ones that I like.

And? 

[motorfirebox]

And that's why the syndicates aren't a waste of time.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

And that's why the syndicates aren't a waste of time.

Lol, no. Reread the OP.

[motorfirebox]

I've read it several times. And you're simply wrong, or at least your complaints don't apply to pretty much anyone but you. When something turns out to be so blindingly overpowered that people stop choosing anything else, DE swings the nerf bat—same as just about any other game company in existence would. The point of choices is to have enough of them be interesting and satisfying that people don't just stick to one of them, or it stops being so much of a choice.

 

You're salty that DE doesn't suddenly stop applying this sane, reasonable, completely understandable philosophy when it comes to syndicates. And hey, if the only reason you ground syndicate rep was to be ridiculously OP, well, you've definitely wasted your time. For everybody else, the syndicates continue to offer a lot of pretty valuable stuff.

 

And with that, I think I'm done with this thread. There really isn't anything left for me to say on the topic.

[FrackingBiscuit]

"I said they're a waste of time and DE hates us having fun, therefore I am right and nothing will persuade me otherwise."

 

We get it kid, you don't like Warframe.  Go play something else.  If you've convinced yourself not to have fun with this game then why hang around?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

"I said they're a waste of time and DE hates us having fun, therefore I am right and nothing will persuade me otherwise."

 

We get it kid, you don't like Warframe.  Go play something else.  If you've convinced yourself not to have fun with this game then why hang around?

Strawman Fallacy

[HurpadurpusRex]

Every time I rework a warframe i look at the syndacate mods i have unlocked for it. I have yet to find one worth using. I am rank 19. The named syndacate rewards were worth using. I just would like to have seen them nerfed less hard, they were in my opinion out of ballance as well. But functionality has been lost, all the named items i have used in the past and never again after the nerf. I am with the sentiment that destroying popular items is a mistake. It would be nice to see a global ballance pass on syndacate gear just to get some play out of it. That being said most of the syndacate weapons are still OP and could stand to have a 15% DPS cut. But not a 1000% ammo consumtion ramping like the bloody gammacore thats just unusable. DPS loss due to reloads aside, it still burns through all your ammo in about 20 second of fire which makes it a pretty sorta paper weight.

[(PSN)MikeCopa]

I pray to the gods the Sancti Tigris won't be nerfed later down the line.

Other than this I'm hoping for more options to support the Syndicates and maybe get some cool benefits other than the ones we have.