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BloodForTheBloodGods

Equinox Is Broken

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Metamorphosis

When I first saw Equinox in action, they were saying how they wanted you to change forms often, and even gave you buffs to entice. Well, that is not the case. Because there's an arbitrary 2second cast delay when switching forms, which isn't effected by Natural Talent or Duration Mods. Really doesn't encourage me to change forms.

 

More so, if you want to change forms, both your channeling abilities end. Which for Pacify and Provoke, isn't a big issue, but for Mend and Maim it is. Maim is better by far from Mend. The only time I would use Mend AS IS, would be if I could charge the damage while using Maim, then switch form for the heals.

 

On that note, would it be so bad that all abilities were switched to there day/night opposite? They're all channeling abilities anyway.

 

Rest & Rage

I haven't used/don't find this very useful, so can't say much. I have heard from others it needs a range buff.

 

Pacify & Provoke

There has been issues with Pacify that have been brought up in another thread, so I'll just link to that:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/508917-equinox-pacify-ability-has-diminishing-returns-falloff-with-range-and-broken-efficiency-data-and-videos/

 

Provoke is really good, until you consider using it solo. Then it does absolutely nothing. Did DE not think that there is a significant portion of the community that only solos? I'm not saying he should get his own Power Strength buffed as well, but maybe it could do something else as well, to make some sort of difference.

 

Mend & Maim

Mend although in theory sounded good, in practice it is very situational. To get a heal, you have to already been charging, and because it doesn't really do anything but heal, there isn't really a reason to be using it... Hence my suggestion above. But what if it actually was useful? Perhaps simply a sleepy/slow movement & attack speed aura. I can't think of anything else currently, but it's too close to MP to me.

 

Maim is great as is to me. Can't think of anything wrong with it, or what to improve on.

 

 

What do you think of Equinox? Leave your have any constructive criticisms or suggestions in the comment section below, and don't forget to +1 if you agree.

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Think this one sort of works like Limbo, people have to get to know him well before they can do anything out of the ordinary with them.

But i absolutely love this frame. Gotta say it became one of my favorites.

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I think that her forms need to have more synergy.

 

It would be nice if you were encouraged to switch forms multiple times throughout the course of battle, but currently, it's similar to swapping between Primary and Secondary weapons -- it's like a hugely conscious effort that you only do in between fights. So firstly, reduce/eliminate the downtime after using Metamorphosis. Additionally, damage stored from Mend/Maim should be maintained between forms. If I'm storing millions of damage with Maim, and suddenly need health, I should be able to swap to Night form and use Mend to heal. But currently, the mechanics seem to encourage you to remain in one form.

 

I was initially of the mindset that Day form was infinitely superior to Night, but after giving Night an honest try, she's actually a pretty good frame. However, I think Mend could use some tweaks:

  • Currently until you release the toggle, it does absolutely nothing other than drain your energy. This is such a waste. Maim, on the other hand, does some Slash damage constantly to all targets in range. I think that Mend should be given an ongoing effect in-line with this, most likely a small amount of ongoing Health regen while it's toggled on.
  • In addition, I think that it should stun enemies in range (with no damage) when you release the toggle. You release the toggle when you're low on health and need to heal, so it's clearly a time when you're probably overwhelmed by strong enemies. I think that this small amount of CC would be invaluable to give her enough time to get a handle on the situation, or re-cast Mend if need be.
  • Lastly, the amount healed by Mend is often overkill -- it's way more than anyone would ever need to reach full health. I've seen it suggested that excess healing go to Overshields, or even some new 'Overhealth' but honestly I don't think this is strictly needed if the above changes were implemented. Worth thinking about though.

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-snip-

 

 

-snip-

 

Both the OP and AM-Bunny's comments are all pretty much spot on and encompass all of Equinox' issues and potential fixes. +1 for both of you.

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3 principles for scaling

1.Good Defense

2.Good CC

3.Armor bypass/Insta Armor Removal

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Thank you.

 

How do you think this should be applied to Equinox though?

 

The current equinox has none. *sad*

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Mend & Maim

Mend although in theory sounded good, in practice it is very situational. To get a heal, you have to already been charging, and because it doesn't really do anything but heal, there isn't really a reason to be using it... Hence my suggestion above. But what if it actually was useful? Perhaps simply a sleepy/slow movement & attack speed aura. I can't think of anything else currently, but it's too close to MP to me.

I thought something simmilar. Mend really needs some sort of slow or stun aura when active (slow making more sense because of night's nature). Maybe an additional armor debuff or something simmilar.\

Maim is amazing on lower level runs killing everything in a huge radius. On higher tiers, though, it doesn't damage a lot but the stun is nice. Sadly Equinox gets killed to fast with his average health, shield and armor making it hard to gain a lot of damage for when you deactivate it.

 

I also think the buffs from Metamorphosis should be permanent instead of timed.

 

Rest and Rage just doesn't make sense... It just isn't worth it for using it on single targets. "It has an AoE" Yes, of 2.5 meter. that would be a little over 5 meter with a max power range build, ruining your power strength.

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I more or less agree.

Rest and rage can be useful except the range is tiny and you have run an OE and/or stretch wombo combo to make it effect a reasonable area.

I get that its not supposed to have a massive AOE, but simply spamming it constantly when mobs are less then 5m away from eachother is ridiculous.

If it got a very slight AOE buff to make range mods not mandatory if you want to hit more then one mob at a time, then it would be fairly decent. Nothing crazy of course.

Same deal with mend. Good on paper, but the problem is most of the time you only have a split second to react and get heals out in WF, which means you are either wasting energy charging mend just in case you need it (mean while mend does nothing till then) and watching health bars, or your are to busy getting your killy killy on.

Mend as it is, is only really practical for keeping the team topped up and thats in the rare cases that someones taken dmg and isn't already dead.

If this was a game where death wasn't almost instant then mend would be perfect.

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I think that her forms need to have more synergy.

 

It would be nice if you were encouraged to switch forms multiple times throughout the course of battle, but currently, it's similar to swapping between Primary and Secondary weapons -- it's like a hugely conscious effort that you only do in between fights. So firstly, reduce/eliminate the downtime after using Metamorphosis. Additionally, damage stored from Mend/Maim should be maintained between forms. If I'm storing millions of damage with Maim, and suddenly need health, I should be able to swap to Night form and use Mend to heal. But currently, the mechanics seem to encourage you to remain in one form.

 

I was initially of the mindset that Day form was infinitely superior to Night, but after giving Night an honest try, she's actually a pretty good frame. However, I think Mend could use some tweaks:

  • Currently until you release the toggle, it does absolutely nothing other than drain your energy. This is such a waste. Maim, on the other hand, does some Slash damage constantly to all targets in range. I think that Mend should be given an ongoing effect in-line with this, most likely a small amount of ongoing Health regen while it's toggled on.
  • In addition, I think that it should stun enemies in range (with no damage) when you release the toggle. You release the toggle when you're low on health and need to heal, so it's clearly a time when you're probably overwhelmed by strong enemies. I think that this small amount of CC would be invaluable to give her enough time to get a handle on the situation, or re-cast Mend if need be.
  • Lastly, the amount healed by Mend is often overkill -- it's way more than anyone would ever need to reach full health. I've seen it suggested that excess healing go to Overshields, or even some new 'Overhealth' but honestly I don't think this is strictly needed if the above changes were implemented. Worth thinking about though.

 

Devs need to take this post into consideration. 

 

Mend should have a slow (20-30%) and health regen affect when toggled on. This is all that needs to be done to mend to put it in line with maim.

 

Main has stun and slash when toggled with a slash dmg burst at the end, Mend will have slow and heal when toggled with a healing burst at the end.

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I think that her forms need to have more synergy.

 

It would be nice if you were encouraged to switch forms multiple times throughout the course of battle, but currently, it's similar to swapping between Primary and Secondary weapons -- it's like a hugely conscious effort that you only do in between fights. So firstly, reduce/eliminate the downtime after using Metamorphosis. Additionally, damage stored from Mend/Maim should be maintained between forms. If I'm storing millions of damage with Maim, and suddenly need health, I should be able to swap to Night form and use Mend to heal. But currently, the mechanics seem to encourage you to remain in one form.

 

I was initially of the mindset that Day form was infinitely superior to Night, but after giving Night an honest try, she's actually a pretty good frame. However, I think Mend could use some tweaks:

  • Currently until you release the toggle, it does absolutely nothing other than drain your energy. This is such a waste. Maim, on the other hand, does some Slash damage constantly to all targets in range. I think that Mend should be given an ongoing effect in-line with this, most likely a small amount of ongoing Health regen while it's toggled on.
  • In addition, I think that it should stun enemies in range (with no damage) when you release the toggle. You release the toggle when you're low on health and need to heal, so it's clearly a time when you're probably overwhelmed by strong enemies. I think that this small amount of CC would be invaluable to give her enough time to get a handle on the situation, or re-cast Mend if need be.
  • Lastly, the amount healed by Mend is often overkill -- it's way more than anyone would ever need to reach full health. I've seen it suggested that excess healing go to Overshields, or even some new 'Overhealth' but honestly I don't think this is strictly needed if the above changes were implemented. Worth thinking about though.

 

I really like your point on mend, however and this is just my opinion, besides an extra effect while mend is active (the CC when casting an the health regen you suggested are great) mend needs a tweak with all of that excessive amount of heal, im one of those multiple people who suggest that "overhealth" mechanic, as it would create a small new survivability mechanic by using health as a pool, it seems like a new addition to the existing mechanics and it would give equinox a special place without having conflicts with Trinity, it even creates a new support gameplay between them.

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I really like your point on mend, however and this is just my opinion, besides an extra effect while mend is active (the CC when casting an the health regen you suggested are great) mend needs a tweak with all of that excessive amount of heal, im one of those multiple people who suggest that "overhealth" mechanic, as it would create a small new survivability mechanic by using health as a pool, it seems like a new addition to the existing mechanics and it would give equinox a special place without having conflicts with Trinity, it even creates a new support gameplay between them.

I don't think health regen would fit well. That would make the health burst on deactivation useless. An enemy armor debuff would make more sense IMO.

The health you store is evenly split between frames and companions in range. It might be overkill on solo but with 8 (or 16, in a raid) things in range requiring health the ffectivness drops down quite fast. Though something like "Overhealth" seems like a good idea. But it would need a cap, just like overshields(wheter it's an % or certain amount). An armor boost which slowly fades is another idea

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I don't think health regen would fit well. That would make the health burst on deactivation useless. An enemy armor debuff would make more sense IMO.

The health you store is evenly split between frames and companions in range. It might be overkill on solo but with 8 (or 16, in a raid) things in range requiring health the ffectivness drops down quite fast.

The health regen would be there as a help to restore small amounts of hp + the suggested initial CC when casted, thats to avoid quick deaths when your teammates are low on health.

 

I dont think an "overhealth" mechanic would be overkill, most content is for 4 players and in those situations that stored heal gets wasted really bad (and 99% damage reduction trinity still exists), in raids there is nearly no time to activate the heal with that enemy damage, and if mend effectiveness drops down fast thats even more reason to add that mechanic, as you could "charge" your allies with a bit of "overhealth" while charging the next one.

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Just posted this on other topic, i have not much to say about she. The concept its a really good one, it has much more room to play with but atm the implementation seems a bit lacluster and a form far outclases the other.

 

Now with the efficiency afecting her 3 its a tini bit better at nigh form , but not enough to compare to day form. The decaying buffs are a good concept, but not the way they are implemented. This are my proposed changes:

 

1- Switching betwen forms shoudl be encouraged by leting the current buffs stay as long as you are in that form plus using a decaying sistem when you change. This way , in day form you have your extra movement speed and if you swich to night form you conserve that movement speed for a set duration while it decays. The duration on this should be at least 40 seconds.

 

2- A minor range increase( to 5-6 meters should be fine) and being able to target ground for something like using a explosive weap: you target the ground to maximice the range.

 

3- Wen you switch the ability isnt deactivated but its on pause while you are switching, on the night form you and your alies get the dmg reduction and its fixed(37 at max rank) instead of the enemys do less dmg the closer you are. To compensate the range is brought down to 8-12 meters.

 

4- Mend needs something to be on par with main and it get the same treatment as pacify/proque, its not deactivated and you store the dmg as long as your using it. On other hand the way its now it incites you to switch forms instead of deactivating it so you can evade the long cast time but with no incentives for switching forms why would you do that?. Mend proposed changes: enemy stager, enemy slow down(similar to mprime) decreased enemy acurrazy and agresion lv( they shoot wrong and with less frecuenzy, also they move like walking instead of runing)

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I would also suggest that when switching forms, m&m unleashes power of related form.

This way I can choose to heal or damage no matter what ultimate I am using. If I build up maim, it should release mend if I switch to night.

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The health regen would be there as a help to restore small amounts of hp + the suggested initial CC when casted, thats to avoid quick deaths when your teammates are low on health.

 

I dont think an "overhealth" mechanic would be overkill, most content is for 4 players and in those situations that stored heal gets wasted really bad (and 99% damage reduction trinity still exists), in raids there is nearly no time to activate the heal with that enemy damage, and if mend effectiveness drops down fast thats even more reason to add that mechanic, as you could "charge" your allies with a bit of "overhealth" while charging the next one.

I might have been unclear or you didn't understand. The amount of health she restores might be overkill when playing solo, I wasn't talking about overhealth

 

 

Any suggestions on Provoke though? It's virtually useless during Solo play.

Equinox' abilities aren't very damaging. Power strength doesn't affect Maim's damage gain (I think).. I don't think it can be of any use in for Eq with the stats.

Some frames (/abilities) are just there for support and don't have much solo value..

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To make Mend actually useful it kinda needs two things.

 

There is a constant stream of basic health regen while the ability is toggled. (This is only fair because Maim is constantly doing damage while also charging the end damage nuke.) My suggestion would be 2.5 HP/sec per tier so 2.5 / 5 / 7.5 / and 10 HP/s at the respective ability ranks.

 

As for the end effect, the super heal goes to waste all to often. It would really be better if the pool was partially front-loaded, thus 20% is immediately applied and then the remaining 80% is applied across party every second for ~8 seconds. This would mean that immense stored charges would actually result in what is effectively massive health regeneration for a short duration.

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Equinox' abilities aren't very damaging. Power strength doesn't affect Maim's damage gain (I think).. I don't think it can be of any use in for Eq with the stats.

Some frames (/abilities) are just there for support and don't have much solo value..

 

Well, Pacify still has a place in solo play, it effects enemy damage. With no allies, having ability that ONLY effects your allies is literally useless. I don't think it's fair that it should do absolutely nothing. Like I said in OP though, I don't know what else it should do to make it have a use in solo play.

 

Provoke... perhaps it could specifically provide Day-Form Equinox a range buff, which is of more use to him (not to Provoke itself that'd be silly, but to Rage and Maim), and would actually Benefit him in Soloplay. It would cost him 3 energy extra (provoke cost) to cast Rage and Maim, as per usual.

 

Also, how does equinox's Provoke energy drain affect channeling abilities? It only cost energy for initial cast, then just keeps on buffing them for no energy cost?

 

Mend

Ideas for maim sound good, but not sure if they necessarily fit the name. A slow aura or similar don't really seem to fit the name, despite fitting the overall night theme. Regeneration and healing is what I think it comes down to. Overhealth sounds like a winner, but you still end up doing nothing while charging. Health regen/s sounds good, but becomes relatively meaningless, if you already have rejuvenation aura mod.

 

Would an small energy regeneration for allies be too overpowered?

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Mend

"Equinox calls forth the serenity of night, surrounding herself in a 10 / 12 / 15 / 18 meter aura of moonlight's gleam."

 

"Night Equinox emits a medicating aura that accumulates 50% / 55% / 60% / 75% of the maximum health of each enemy killed within the aura."

 

Perhaps a vampiric aura would be fitting? Also having either an Overhealth mechanic or what CRCGamer suggested, a health regen buffer based on the accumulated health pool for a given duration. I think the health buffer would possibly work best, as if one player takes a lot of fire, they will have the entirety of the buffer to drain from instead of a 4or8-way split overhealth between allies.

 

As for the end effect, the super heal goes to waste all to often. It would really be better if the pool was partially front-loaded, thus 20% is immediately applied and then the remaining 80% is applied across party every second for ~8 seconds. This would mean that immense stored charges would actually result in what is effectively massive health regeneration for a short duration.

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I very much like the suggestion that Mend heals 20% at first and then persistently heals the rest over a certain duration. Good thinking. What if that duration depended on Power Duration, so that the more Duration mods you have the longer you benefit from the heal? Considering how a popular strategy is to minimize Power Duration on Equinox to maximize Strength and Efficiency, this could really make for interesting decisions in building -- increase Duration for long lasting healing, or cut Duration and rely on building up massive damage to get a decent heal?

 

One of the strongest things about Maim is the stun enemies experience -- Mend should also get a similar stun that inflicts a Puncture proc, cutting down the damage enemies deal and staggering them long enough for you to kill them.

 

Swapping forms should not cancel Mend/Maim. However, perhaps Mend and Maim have different damage pools to draw from? And if you release one of them, the other one resets as well. Ie, you have 5000 on Maim, then swap over to Night. Mend is activated with 0 stored damage. You build that damage to 2000, then release Mend for the heal. Since "Mend and Maim" has been toggled off, you lose the Main damage.

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I very much like the suggestion that Mend heals 20% at first and then persistently heals the rest over a certain duration. Good thinking. What if that duration depended on Power Duration, so that the more Duration mods you have the longer you benefit from the heal? Considering how a popular strategy is to minimize Power Duration on Equinox to maximize Strength and Efficiency, this could really make for interesting decisions in building -- increase Duration for long lasting healing, or cut Duration and rely on building up massive damage to get a decent heal?

 

One of the strongest things about Maim is the stun enemies experience -- Mend should also get a similar stun that inflicts a Puncture proc, cutting down the damage enemies deal and staggering them long enough for you to kill them.

Yes, this sounds good, it's also very similar to maim in the sense it's the opposite. I like it.

 

Swapping forms should not cancel Mend/Maim. However, perhaps Mend and Maim have different damage pools to draw from? And if you release one of them, the other one resets as well. Ie, you have 5000 on Maim, then swap over to Night. Mend is activated with 0 stored damage. You build that damage to 2000, then release Mend for the heal. Since "Mend and Maim" has been toggled off, you lose the Main damage.

No? That's very similar to how it currently works... except you don't have to recast. It'd be much better, and more encouraging to switch often between forms by having it just change from Mend to Maim affect, ie Puncture stun to slash stun, while maintaining the damage pool. Even if they made it so if, for example you had maim active while casting metamorphosis, it'd cost 10(meta)+50(maim) energy and leaving it active, I think that'd be preferred.

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Swapping forms should not cancel Mend/Maim. However, perhaps Mend and Maim have different damage pools to draw from? And if you release one of them, the other one resets as well. Ie, you have 5000 on Maim, then swap over to Night. Mend is activated with 0 stored damage. You build that damage to 2000, then release Mend for the heal. Since "Mend and Maim" has been toggled off, you lose the Main damage.

Swapping forms should just release the stored damage. If you swap to mend from main, you get the heal. This way you can run maim, but if you need healing, you can just swap forms for the healing burst. This will provide some synergy for choosing both forms. The reverse would work well too. You run mend, but if you need the burst of damage, swap forms to day.

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