Why De Was Wrong In Removing Eb Syndicate Synergy.

[Kruglov]

No it wasn't.

 

Exalted Blade doesn't need those mods to kill.

It can kill literally every enemy in the game.

 

 

The real problem is that to use it late game, you're going to want Life Strike.

And Life Strike is perhaps the hardest mod in the game to get next to Shotgun Spazz.

 

Why DE has a mod that melee-centric players NEED in such a hard-to-get layer upon layer of RNG I can't even begin to fathom.

The syndicate mods that restored health were a nice replacement for Life Strike if you werent one of the indescribably lucky players to find the mod on endless jupiter survival mode aka snoresville.

[Empiren]

It is only removing the usefulness of syndicate mods on EB, which they had no business applying to anyway.

 

Is EB a Skana? No.

Is it a set of Cleavers? No.

Is it a Jaw Sword? Again, no.

 

The mods are still extremely useful because they make the weapons that they apply to quite good. It never made sense to have them apply to a weapon that is already incredible without them.

*Ahem* 

How is the actual look of EB(skana prime btw), relevant to the issue at hand?

They are "extremely useful"? Those weapons are still subpar and anyone with any sense of min-max *(which again, is the entire point of the removal) is never going to use them.

 

 

I also quoted DE: The reason for the removal was not the damage. Please refrain from suggesting it was.

The real problem is that to use it late game, you're going to want Life Strike.

And Life Strike is perhaps the hardest mod in the game to get next to Shotgun Spazz.

 

Why DE has a mod that melee-centric players NEED in such a hard-to-get layer upon layer of RNG I can't even begin to fathom.

The syndicate mods that restored health were a nice replacement for Life Strike if you werent one of the indescribably lucky players to find the mod on endless jupiter survival mode aka snoresville.

 

Eyup. that's another issue I found that DE just ignored but has the same mentality as this one.

[egregiousRac]

No it wasn't.

 

Exalted Blade doesn't need those mods to kill.

It can kill literally every enemy in the game.

 

 

The real problem is that to use it late game, you're going to want Life Strike.

And Life Strike is perhaps the hardest mod in the game to get next to Shotgun Spazz.

 

Why DE has a mod that melee-centric players NEED in such a hard-to-get layer upon layer of RNG I can't even begin to fathom.

The syndicate mods that restored health were a nice replacement for Life Strike if you werent one of the indescribably lucky players to find the mod on endless jupiter survival mode aka snoresville.

 

Since when is Life Strike anywhere near Shotgun Spazz in rarity? It is a relatively easy mod to get.

 

 

*Ahem* 

How is the actual look of EB(skana prime btw), relevant to the issue at hand?

They are "extremely useful"? Those weapons are still subpar and anyone with any sense of min-max *(which again, is the entire point of the removal) is never going to use them.

 

 

I also quoted DE: The reason for the removal was not the damage. Please refrain from suggesting it was.

 

I wasn't talking about looks. Those mods are limited to very specific weapons, which need them to compete. EB does not need them to compete, and as such has no business using them.

 

I also wasn't talking about the damage. The overall package that those mods supplied to EB made those weapons significantly better for use with it than any other melee weapons. Now you can use any melee weapon you want and have the same build options. If those mods were less effective than a standard build, and then were removed you wouldn't care.

Your arguments have nothing to do with player choice. They have to do with you losing power that you have come to rely on.

[ScorpDK]

This thread is hilarious.

 

I killed enemies with EB just fine even before actually getting any Syndicate mods, and when I got Covert Lethality, they removed it's effect from EB literally the day after. I never got to see how effective that +100 flat damage and Insta-Kill on non-alerted enemies would effect my playstyle.

I was more annoyed at the fact that CV now only triggers from the lengthy, single-target executions that give enemies plenty of time to tear you a new one, rather than when you rush them with a Primed Reach Dagger and blast through them from a safe distance.

 

If anything, this was more of a mistake from DE of not keeping the syndicate special effects off EB in the first place. An oversight.

EB is just as effective while wielding a dagger, a whip or a two-handed blade. You pick whichever weapon you would use while out of energy, depending on your playstyle.

I personally like the high crit weapons, so I can get the maximum effect from Berserker as quickly as possible, since Stamina is no longer an issue.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Here's the issue with having syndicate mods:

Only a few weapons had syndicate mods, making them better than any others.

 

As it stands now, only generic mods are supported, which makes every weapon equal when it comes to EB. It is entirely up to you what you want to bring, and the playing field is level.

So DE should have given more of the underused and weaker melee weapons syndicate mods instead of taking the lazy way out.

[egregiousRac]

So DE should have given more of the underused and weaker melee weapons syndicate mods instead of taking the lazy way out.

 

Or they can make the ability use only mods that every melee weapon uses, which is what they want to do. This way you can use any weapon you want, just because you like it.

 

This isn't the lazy way out. It is sound design, which flies in the face of people's obsession with easymode farming.

[Empiren]

 

I wasn't talking about looks. Those mods are limited to very specific weapons, which need them to compete. EB does not need them to compete, and as such has no business using them.

 

I also wasn't talking about the damage. The overall package that those mods supplied to EB made those weapons significantly better for use with it than any other melee weapons. Now you can use any melee weapon you want and have the same build options. If those mods were less effective than a standard build, and then were removed you wouldn't care.

Your arguments have nothing to do with player choice. They have to do with you losing power that you have come to rely on.

 

"To compete" you need Life Strike. You probably need Scindo Prime for non-EB mode as well.

 

Oh but of course, it's the arbitrary line drawn in the sand here.

 

And that's not even "competitive" as you just removed one min-max. You still need all those mods. You still need FE, BR, and such.

 

Sheesh, you see where this stuff gets us? It's just DE nerfing things because people actually had something to do in endgame tbh.

[Thaumatos]

All weapons are now equal with EB.

 

Use what you want.  Play how you want.  This game doesn't require a Galatine with Cleaving Whirlwind and Primed Reach.

 

I was using Excalibur before his overhaul in T4D and S missions just fine.  He was extremely underclassed then, but all the power you're given in Warframe is absurd.

 

This is like big time hollywood movie stars complaining about high salaries for CEOs.  STFU, you're all rich...

[vaugahn]

Sorry OP, this is how it should be. The problem of weapon diversity needs to be dealt with on the side of the weapons themselves, it doesn't have anything to do with EB. Trying to conflate those two issues is an exercise in futility, EB only is modified by weapon mods, and if only a few weapons can equip the top tier of mods that's a problem for the ability.

 

I used Dual Cleavers with my Excal a lot so I'm not exactly happy about this change, but I can see why they did it.

[Empiren]

All weapons are now equal with EB.

 

Use what you want.  Play how you want.  This game doesn't require a Galatine with Cleaving Whirlwind and Primed Reach.

 

I was using Excalibur before his overhaul in T4D and S missions just fine.  He was extremely underclassed then, but all the power you're given in Warframe is absurd.

 

This is like big time hollywood movie stars complaining about high salaries for CEOs.  STFU, you're all rich...

 

You mean play FoTM

 

I never stated any problems with EB. Please don't imply this is a user error.

 

No, this is like people who had something to look forward to in the min-max of this game(literally the only endgame) being stripped from them.

 

 

This is people trying to ad-hoc justification for things. Not people giving a reason for it to change from what it was.

[Empiren]

Syndicate mods effected EB justification:

A) It was implemented by DE to be in the game.(i.e. not a mistake)

B) It gave weapons that would not be used otherwise, a reason to be used
C) It gave people something to work forward to with syndicates
D) It was not taken away because of damage reasons therefore it was not imbalanced damage-wise.

Edited August 21, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Or they can make the ability use only mods that every melee weapon uses, which is what they want to do. This way you can use any weapon you want, just because you like it.

 

This isn't the lazy way out. It is sound design, which flies in the face of people's obsession with easymode farming.

It's the lazy way out because it takes less work. And people aren't going to use subpar weapons when the best weapons in the game will work just as well. By giving subpar weapons that extra utility you increase variety, which is what they claim to want, despite this patch doing the exact opposite of just that.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

It is only removing the usefulness of syndicate mods on EB, which they had no business applying to anyway.

Is EB a Skana? No.

Is it a set of Cleavers? No.

Is it a Jaw Sword? Again, no.

The mods are still extremely useful because they make the weapons that they apply to quite good. It never made sense to have them apply to a weapon that is already incredible without them.

Eb is a skana

And you forgot about two. The non 100% base damage ones.

Mire (100% toxin) and Drak dagger (status)

Anyway they are in the same category as throwing weapon mods now. Back to top tier swords.

Edited August 21, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[Empiren]

It's the lazy way out because it takes less work. And people aren't going to use subpar weapons when the best weapons in the game will work just as well. By giving subpar weapons that extra utility you increase variety, which is what they claim to want, despite this patch doing the exact opposite of just that.

 

Thanks for that.

[Thaumatos]

Extracting your post:

Mire and Dark dagger didn't.

 

Mire's syndicate mod gave 100% toxic damage.  Which absolutely effects EB damage.

 

Dark Dagger's syndicate mod still granted a 1000 damage Viral AoE and a 100% increase in status chance.  You could easily proc a 50% reduction in HP on all targets in the surrounding radius.  When the maximum health returns to normal in 6 seconds, the current health remains the same.  In other words, Dark Dagger AoEs can cut the current life of all targets in half and kill most of them.

[Kruglov]

Since when is Life Strike anywhere near Shotgun Spazz in rarity? It is a relatively easy mod to get.

 

Not everyone has access to thurmatological faerie magicks that bring us the mods we need.

I already tried disemboweling my firstborn daughter at a sulphurous alter adorned with an effigy of DE_SCOTT.

All I've gotten in the hundreds of hours (of disemboweling, farmimg, and transmutation) is garbage.

And I know I'm not alone, otherwise Lifestrike wouldn't sell for such a high price.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Extracting your post:

Mire's syndicate mod gave 100% toxic damage. Which absolutely effects EB damage.

Dark Dagger's syndicate mod still granted a 1000 damage Viral AoE and a 100% increase in status chance. You could easily proc a 50% reduction in HP on all targets in the surrounding radius. When the maximum health returns to normal in 6 seconds, the current health remains the same. In other words, Dark Dagger AoEs can cut the current life of all targets in half and kill most of them.

Mire gave 10% more toxin damage than a regular mods. That's not a massive damage edge. 1000 damage in terms of EB isn't a lot either.

Actually the damage mods are replacable for the most part too.

Edited August 21, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[fatpig84]

It won't make any difference because everyone will still use a crit weapon for the ROF increase of EB sword lasers.

So it brings down to the "usual" suspects.

[(PSN)Baba_Yaga_1990]

All they have to do is give EB it's own mod slots, that way specific MELEE weapons won't hold back people's choice of weapon (although power creep will love that +100 damage)

[xLordKogax]

I wanted to express some ideas i have for Exalted Blade with respects to the thread Lord

 

some synergy for EB

 

I love the innate Radial Blind

 

what if Ground Slam on EB had an Innate Radial Javelin

 

Bullet Jump while in EB and Excal goes Invisible for the animation (SuperJump)

 

Slash Dash while in EB should ping pong thru enemies close to intended target

 

Just food for thought

 

Im praying he doesnt recieve another Nerf seriously if he does DE is gonna ruin Warframe.

There are Noobs that dont want to pay for plat or waste alot of hours grinding to get where most of us are and Exalted Blade makes some Noobs feel powerful.

You want to appeal to the new players not Bore them, I tell friends about Warframe and they tell me "$#*@ that Game is boring"

 

Noone really wants to Faarm or waste that many Hours in this game unless if you are already a Fan

 

Excal is the Poster boy and Protagonist and I dont mind him being better than Ash which is my Favorite frame.

 

Excal is My Second Fav and I have Barely Spammed EB but I will admit it is Addicting and it really symbolizes Excalibur as the SWORD frame

 

xKogax

[[DE]Danielle]

An entire page of derail-worthy posts were removed. Please stay on-topic and refrain from insulting one another, it will lead to the thread being locked. 

[Echowing]

Overall, purely looking at EB, there is now perfect variety.  Players can bring any melee weapon they want, and they will not be weakening themselves.  I personally love the Nikana.  Before this change, in order to bring the Nikana I was deliberately gimping my EB damage.  Now it's the same as if I brought any other weapon.  Now, outside of EB, you are correct, many people will simply bring whatever weapon deals the most damage (Scindo/Dakra Prime are common examples).  However, this is not a problem with EB, but with melee as a whole.  People often say that the syndicate mods were the only thing making people use "low-tier" weapons like the Mire or Jaw Sword.  However, if an item is objectively one of the single best options, it ceases to be a "low tier" option, doesn't it?  If a weapon is one of the 4 best options, then your options are rather limited.

[TaylorsContraction]

I'l chime in on this subject. I AGREE with DE's decision not to make Syndicate mods affect or proc with Exhalted Blade.

 

Those mods are geared toward specific weapons, that excal IS NOT using when exhalted blade is active.

 

From a mechanics / logical point of view it makes perfect sense.

 

From a power dip point of view, it's negligeable, Excal does a ton of damage still and his ultimate is still the best scaling ultimate in the game.

 

From a space magic point of view, it's an argument that rustles my jimmies.

 

It was a good balancing change, and it has become apparent to everyone that the WF community likes imbalanced anything, and RIOTS whenever balancing is performed. Arguments like it's PvE there's no need for balance are not valid. It's a game where you want diversity to be viable and not corner people into using one trick pony's for the entire game [mesa / excal / saryn etc...]. Balance is important so eveyrone can enjoy the game, even a Hydroid player that wishes to join a T4D mission without being criticized or ostrecized for not using over-the-top-over-powered frames due to inbalance issues.

[SullyTheStalker]

If you ignore outside of EB, then you ignore the fact that no one was using these weapons to begin with.

(without the mod)

 

Doesn't that speak more about the condition of those melee weapons themselves, and how they need to be reworked?

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Doesn't that speak more about the condition of those melee weapons themselves, and how they need to be reworked?

if they weren't bad they wouldn't have got ten the aug.