Why De Was Wrong In Removing Eb Syndicate Synergy.

[TwiceDead]

OP, you are objectively wrong. No matter what weapon you use, EB will still be the same, so bring a shiv if you want, but that won't harm your EB's performance, which is what DE is going for with this fix.

If you wanted to be optimal before the fix, you had to bring a syndicate weapon, which means you were limited to 5 weapons to choose from in order to be optimal with EB. 

 

Now you can choose from every melee-weapon in the game, and you'll still be as optimal with EB as before. 

 

The real issue you're bringing to light is the current state of weapon-balance, which is the main cause most of these weapons never see the light of day. Exalted Blade has nothing to do with this. 

[Empiren]

OP, you are objectively wrong. No matter what weapon you use, EB will still be the same, so bring a shiv if you want, but that won't harm your EB's performance, which is what DE is going for with this fix.

Yes but this was already implemented. The weapons are working the same way they already were.

 

The only difference is the arbitrary line drawn. For instance life strike is an "optimal"(I'd argue necessary) mod for EB. But Lifestrike is harder to obtain than a syndicate mod's application by far.

 

Also "objectively wrong" is something I'd say would require fact-checking, this isn't that.

 

 

The real issue you're bringing to light is the current state of weapon-balance, which is the main cause most of these weapons never see the light of day. Exalted Blade has nothing to do with this. 

 

It has everything to do with it.

 

How are you going to ignore the fact that some of these weapons will not be used outside of Exalted Blade?

Not to mention these weapons suffer significantly by trying to make a build for EB.

 

 

 

Once again, this is just going to continue a spiral of nerfing EB for the sake of "equality".

 

[JalakBali]

So, according to the OP, Excalibur players like me who like to use non-syndicate weapons (my choice is Galatine and Atterax) should be forced to use syndicate weapons just because it's better for EB. And somehow this is better for variety.

 

You got your logic backwards. You're afraid (???) everyone would go back to Scindo Prime. But that is a problem with Scindo Prime being the highest DPS melee, not a problem with Exalted Blade optimization since you don't HAVE to use Scindo Prime to maximize EB.

[TwiceDead]

Yes but this was already implemented. The weapons are working the same way they already were.

 

The only difference is the arbitrary line drawn. For instance life strike is an "optimal"(I'd argue necessary) mod for EB. But Lifestrike is harder to obtain than a syndicate mod's application by far.

 

Also "objectively wrong" is something I'd say would require fact-checking, this isn't that.

Your claim is basically "DE you killed weapon variety, when you claim to do the opposite"... Which is wrong, they didn't.

 

It has everything to do with it.

Ahah, no. 

 

Exalted Blade has nothing to do with weapon interaction anymore.

If a weapon sucks, that's because the balance of weapons is out of whack, not because Exalted Blade stopped being optimal with 5 weapons. 

[JalakBali]

 

How are you going to ignore the fact that some of these weapons will not be used outside of Exalted Blade?

Not to mention these weapons suffer significantly by trying to make a build for EB.

 

 

You must be playing on a weird server where everyone is only using Scindo Prime for melee.

The syndicate mods made syndicate melee weapons top contenders especially for players who like to wield melee. You're blind or play only with some odd people if you think these are used only for EB. And even if you somehow believed this, then this is a problem with syndicate mods and weapons being worthless and should be buffed, *regardless* whether they affect EB or not. A failed concept should not be kept just because it could be exploited for something else. That is bad design.

 

If you think radial proc like syndicate mods are necessary, then petition for special mods for Excalibur that would give similar effects. That is the more appropriate solution to the problem.

[Empiren]

So, according to the OP, Excalibur players like me who like to use non-syndicate weapons (my choice is Galatine and Atterax) should be forced to use syndicate weapons just because it's better for EB. And somehow this is better for variety.

 

You got your logic backwards. You're afraid (???) everyone would go back to Scindo Prime. But that is a problem with Scindo Prime being the highest DPS melee, not a problem with Exalted Blade optimization since you don't HAVE to use Scindo Prime to maximize EB.

 

How are you forced  to use syndicate weapons any more than you are "forced" to use berserker and life strike?

 

[Echowing]

 

It has everything to do with it.

 

How are you going to ignore the fact that some of these weapons will not be used outside of Exalted Blade?

Not to mention these weapons suffer significantly by trying to make a build for EB.

 

If we are talking about Exalted Blade, and ONLY Exalted Blade, then yes, this change increased variety.  People will use whatever melee weapon they feel like, and that weapon will often be whatever deals the most damage.  The issue you seem to be addressing is not about EB at all, but rather melee weapon balance as a whole, which is an entirely different issue.

[Empiren]

You must be playing on a weird server where everyone is only using Scindo Prime for melee.

The syndicate mods made syndicate melee weapons top contenders especially for players who like to wield melee. You're blind or play only with some odd people if you think these are used only for EB. And even if you somehow believed this, then this is a problem with syndicate mods and weapons being worthless and should be buffed, *regardless* whether they affect EB or not. A failed concept should not be kept just because it could be exploited for something else. That is bad design.

 

If you think radial proc like syndicate mods are necessary, then petition for special mods for Excalibur that would give similar effects. That is the more appropriate solution to the problem.

 

I really have no clue what you are saying here outside of the "you must be blind if you don't agree with me".

 

Because syndicate mods still don't outclass other melee, especially now with EB synergy removal.

If we are talking about Exalted Blade, and ONLY Exalted Blade, then yes, this change increased variety.  People will use whatever melee weapon they feel like, and that weapon will often be whatever deals the most damage.  The issue you seem to be addressing is not about EB at all, but rather melee weapon balance as a whole, which is an entirely different issue.

No they won't.

They'll just go back to the top-list melee. That's all that's going to happen. You know it. I know it.

 

People are not going to run mk1-bo with Exalted blade for an optimized build and saying that they "can" is irrelevant as they could already use the same configuration before.

[TwiceDead]

 

I really have no clue what you are saying here outside of the "you must be blind if you don't agree with me".

Oh, the irony. 

 

No they won't.

They'll just go back to the top-list melee. That's all that's going to happen. You know it. I know it.

 

People are not going to run mk1-bo with Exalted blade for an optimized build and saying that they "can" is irrelevant as they could already use the same configuration before.

If you wanted to be optimal with Exalted Blade before, you were limited to using 5 weapons. Sure, they could use the same configuration before, but if they did they would be deliberately gimping their Exalted Blade. 

You are no longer limited to using 5 weapons if you want to be optimal with Exalted Blade. Which melee-weapon people decide to use now falls completely down to weapon-balance, and not which works best with Exalted Blade. 

Yes, people will go back to top-list melee, just like they are going back to top-list guns, because this is a separate issue from Exalted Blade. They are not, I repeat, NOT, connected anymore. If someone only uses the top-guns now, blame weapon-balance, and not the Exalted Blade fix. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by TwiceDead

[Empiren]

 

 

Oh, the irony. 

 

If you wanted to be optimal with Exalted Blade before, you were limited to using 5 weapons. Sure, they could use the same configuration before, but if they did they would be deliberately gimping their Exalted Blade. 

You are no longer limited to using 5 weapons if you want to be optimal with Exalted Blade. Which melee-weapon people decide to use now falls completely down to weapon-balance, and not which works best with Exalted Blade. 

Yes, people will go back to top-list melee, just like they are going back to top-list guns, because this is a separate issue from Exalted Blade. They are not, I repeat, NOT, connected anymore. If someone only uses the top-guns now, blame weapon-balance, and not the Exalted Blade fix. 

 

What irony? I am not assuming he's blind if he disagrees, I simply disagree with DE and probably him(if that's what he meant) in the removal of synergy mods.

(Thinking you used the wrong word).

 

The point is that you are always limited in optimal builds.

 

Equality is not productive to a game based on min-max and constant FoTM balance changes.

[(XBOX)Merethyl7745]

I use whatever weapon I feel like using, regardless of damage, crit dmg/chance and so on. I love a challenge and hate things been too easy. Though I would not like things to be too hard either. Got to have that balance :) if something is over used I hate it!! I love variation.

[Varzy]

I'm gonna use my Orthos Prime. It's my favorite melee and strong enough to last for a while.

 

Scindo Prime is slow, and fun! But not really my style.

 

Like, I get what you're saying. When we could use syndicate mods, people would take those weapons. Now they're less of a factor, so people are gonna take different weapons. But the choices we had before this change were just as artificial as the choices we have now. We still have a narrow criteria for "best melee" weapon, only now the performance of EB has no influence on the rankings on that list.

[Sirabot]

Here's my opinion on the matter. It was a powerful, useful, and interesting combo. EB+syndicate weapons were in fact a unique synergy. I hoped this was intentional by DE rather than an oversight because I wanted to see more things like this.

[DiosGX]

And this is why there are so very few abilities that interact with the mods of weapons. They're all ridiculously powerful, and EB hit a point of being way too strong.

 

Was fun while it lasted, but I actually didn't enjoy having to only use a prisma cleaver or skana just to not feel like I'm gimping myself.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

No reason to use anything other than a Dakra Prime on Excal now. Hell, I don't even see a point in using the syndicate melee weapons at all now.  Dakra Prime (for Excal) and the Scindo Prime are really the only melee weapons even worth equipping.

[Krak_Nihilus]

I don't see the point here, why would you use your worst melee? And that's for all warframes, not only excalibur. I always used my best melees with the other warframes.

I often use Sheev. Remember that $hitty event dagger that everyone complained about? Yeah, that thing. Yes, it's bad. Yes, I do have better melee weapons like scindo prime or jat kittag. But I use it because I like how it looks holstered. My main source of damage is primary anyway, I'm barely gonna use melee.

No reason to use anything other than a Dakra Prime on Excal now. Hell, I don't even see a point in using the syndicate melee weapons at all now. Dakra Prime (for Excal) and the Scindo Prime are really the only melee weapons even worth equipping.

Ugh, you do realize that which melee you use doesn't have any impact on EB, right? ONLY mods affect it.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Krak_Nihilus

[(PSN)KiloCrusher]

People complain about balance in Warframe, yet they ruin the game for themselves. How is anybody content with using the same weapon over and over and over again? It seems like all that anybody (or at least the ones with the loudest "voices") wants now are overpowered abilities and weapons. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

...

Ugh, you do realize that which melee you use doesn't have any impact on EB, right? ONLY mods affect it.

Almost entirely true.

Glaive weapons have been at a disadvantage mod wise since Exalted Blade has been released and still remain at a mod disadvantage.

(One might have hoped for some Proto-Excalibur synergy with Proto-Glaive skin...besides Radial Blind + Glaive Bombing)

If a Tenno had a Glaive-bombing build with Power-Throw and Quick-Return they lose 2 mod slots for Exalted Blade.

If a Tenno also ran Whirlwind...that is a 3rd Mod that does not apply nor benefit Exalted Blade. Kestrel users with Entropy Flight had the Proc effect to offset loss of applicable Mod....but now can potentially have 4 slots that do contribute to Exalted Blade at all.

Running a Glaive-bombing build with Power-Throw + Quick-Return is not a friendly build with Exalted Blade.

Other than Glaive type weapons: only Dark Dagger can have 2 mod slots not contribute to Exalted Blade with Dark Dagger augment and Covert Lethality.

What this change really does is allow some melee weapons to be optimized both for Exalted Blade and non-exalted Blade melee.

-For the few weapons like Throwing weapons and Dark Dagger where you can potentially lose 2-4 mod slots if you mod for optimization outside of Exalted Blade....you will not have Exalted Blade maximized.

So players have a choice of using any melee weapon built with mods that would best suit Exalted Blade.....much better than Hysteria melee dependency.

But some weapons with an Exlated Blade optimized build not be optimized outside of Exalted Blade.

Sort-of like some players weapon choices and builds for Valkyr with WarCry using a maximized build for WarCry will not have the same mods that maximize Hysteria.(Hysteria is always better with Spoiled-strike and Life-Strike is never needed on Hysteria melee build...in the same way Power-Throw plus Quick-Return is never needed for Exalted Blade)

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Before: Syndicates or Critzerker weapons.

 

Now: Critzerker weapons.

 

It's not exactly the Mississippi.

[FrackingBiscuit]

People complain about balance in Warframe, yet they ruin the game for themselves. How is anybody content with using the same weapon over and over and over again? It seems like all that anybody (or at least the ones with the loudest "voices") wants now are overpowered abilities and weapons. 

 

Warframe players are convinced that they "have" to use the best weapons.  As if it's against the laws of physics to use something sub-optimal.

 

They are also convinced that balance is inversely proportional to the amount of time/input it takes to complete a mission.  The shorter and more disengaged the average mission, the more balanced the game is.

 

Surprised nobody is calling for EB to be full-auto.

[ScorpDK]

-snip-

One solution to this problem could be to give these specific mods like a tiny boost of similar point cost that affects EB, but I dunno how well balanced that would end up being - you can't really make everyone happy in these scenarios. But I am all for making weapons equally usable even if you decide to maximize for a warframe's innate ability.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Ugh, you do realize that which melee you use doesn't have any impact on EB, right? ONLY mods affect it.

And?  That just means that there is no reason not to use the weapon that relies on nothing but generic mods and has the highest DPS outside of EB.

Edited August 22, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Aggh]

I think the real problem with this solution is that it is aimed at a non issue.  The staggering majority of people worried about min maxing EB never cared about being "forced" to use a select group of weapons, they've got exalted blade out pretty much 24/7.

[NinthAria]

No reason to use anything other than a Dakra Prime on Excal now. Hell, I don't even see a point in using the syndicate melee weapons at all now.  Dakra Prime (for Excal) and the Scindo Prime are really the only melee weapons even worth equipping.

 

Maybe you're not an Excalibur player. Maybe you don't have a Scindo/Dakra Prime. Maybe you do have one but you've been using it for a dozen runs straight now and you're tired of looking at it. Maybe you're gearing up for a mission where a non-slash damage type would be more useful. Maybe you fell in love with your Skana/Dual Cleavers/etc. during your early days of Warframe and want to get nostalgic without shutting down your killing power too hard. Maybe battle axes or sabers just don't do it for you aesthetically.

 

There's tons of reasons to equip other melee weapons, even if you throw any issue related to Exalted Blade out the airlock.

Edited August 22, 2015 by NinthAria

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Maybe you're not an Excalibur player. Maybe you don't have a Scindo/Dakra Prime. Maybe you do have one but you've been using it for a dozen runs straight now and you're tired of looking at it. Maybe you're gearing up for a mission where a non-slash damage type would be more useful. Maybe you fell in love with your Skana/Dual Cleavers/etc. during your early days of Warframe and want to get nostalgic without shutting down your killing power too hard. Maybe battle axes or sabers just don't do it for you aesthetically.

 

There's tons of reasons to equip other melee weapons, even if you throw any issue related to Exalted Blade out the airlock.

Couldn't the same be said of the time before the nerf?