Mag Shouldn't Be A Starter Frame

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Ok, I will admit that I am not an expert on Mag and I know that there are many Mag players out there who love her the way she is but let's face it that Mag is far from perfect. A friend of mine recently started a month ago and she picked Mag, she told me that if it wasn't for the fact that she had friends who played it., she would have stopped because of how fragile Mag is with her lack of damage. Let me just say that Mag may have problems, but not all the problems new players have with Mag is Mag's fault. 

 

I'll start with the obvious, Mag is very much anti-Corpus, and the first few planets we go through when we start are all Grineer. This means that  not only does Mag's damage suffer since Magnetic damage is resisted by Armored units but also the fact that Shield Polarize has its utility reduced by 50% since there are no shields to drain from your enemy. These are two huge flaws which stack the deck against Mag right when the player starts the game. 

 

Now some of the factors which can very much hurt one's experience with Mag are her lower than average Health, all the damage she does is resisted by many different defense types, and many of her abilities require teamwork which is VERY hard to find early game unless you are playing with a friend who has played the game already. Now with all of this, I still don't hate Mag, I feel that she simply needs some love. Something along the lines as the Excalibur rework, turning her into more of a support/control frame. Giving her abilities additional CC and Utility to make her more useful individually or in a group. 

 

* Pull: Deals additional damage for each enemy the target(s) hit while traveling while damaging the enemies who are knocked down by the same amount while also widening the cone a bit. This should increase her damage and CC ability as it feels more like a single target ability at the moment.

 

* Shield Polarize: Unsure how to change this without complete overhaul 

 

* Bullet Attractor: Can be cast on teammates or self to instead reduce incoming non-melee damage, reflecting the bullets back to the enemy and dealing damage equal to the amount reduced. This is to increase her low surviveability while giving her a scaling damage ability. 

 

* Crush: Magnetizes the enemies in a radius and the ground beneath them, causing them to be crushed by their own armor. Any enemy who survives or enters the zone after casting would have their armor polarized, slowing them down for the duration. This is a 2 fold buff as really, the damage wouldn't change but would give her a good field control and would allow for Duration builds to be possible with her. C'mon DE, you don't have to be an Electrical or Mechanical Engineer to know that you have barely scraped the tip of the iceberg of possibilities when it comes to electromagnetic force (though it does help). 

[Endrance]

I don't feel like Mag is bad for newcomers, yet, there is no much more choice.

 

 

We always had excalibur as a starter.

 

And Mag

 

Then we had volt, when i started playing on U7, volt was removed from starter, and Loki was added.

 

On the last 2 updates if not mistaken, Loki was removed and Volt was added back, for obvious reasons i guess, Volt requires much less strategic approach than Loki.

 

 

Rhino is Mastery Rank 2 locked for some god-knows-why-reason.

 

Mesa, Limbo, Chroma, Mirage are  locked behind quests.

 

Nekros is locked behind a decent leveled Boss.

 

Ash is LOCKED behind Manics

 

We have the rest, which any of them can be a tiny bit more, complicated to play than Mag for a starter, at least IMO.

 

The only ones i would actually even comment on the chance to get into the starter list would be Nyx and Ember.

[Senketsu_]

It's a good thing she didn't start with Loki then. She would have dropped the game in a heartbeat.

[Cyborg-Rox]

I don't feel like Mag is bad for newcomers, yet, there is no much more choice.

 

 

We always had excalibur as a starter.

 

And Mag

 

Then we had volt, when i started playing on U7, volt was removed from starter, and Loki was added.

 

On the last 2 updates if not mistaken, Loki was removed and Volt was added back, for obvious reasons i guess, Volt requires much less strategic approach than Loki.

 

 

Rhino is Mastery Rank 2 locked for some god-knows-why-reason.

 

Mesa, Limbo, Chroma, Mirage are  locked behind quests.

 

Nekros is locked behind a decent leveled Boss.

 

Ash is LOCKED behind Manics

 

We have the rest, which any of them can be a tiny bit more, complicated to play than Mag for a starter, at least IMO.

 

The only ones i would actually even comment on the chance to get into the starter list would be Nyx and Ember.

 

You forgot about Oberon being locked behind Eximus units.

[bubbabenali]

Yep, I an see where you are comming from - my starter frame was Mag too after all, but Pull alone brought me to Venus/ Fossa without problems and I. Did solo, because I didn't knew better. Well the missions took forever to complete... And I did the silent approach.

My second frame was Ember after I've seen someone dominate a dark sector defense - yea I was lazy and let myselv be carried ;-).

Damage was awesome but I felt the lost of cc.

[bubbabenali]

It's a good thing she didn't start with Loki then. She would have dropped the game in a heartbeat.

Funny sidenote: My friend took Loki as starter and did not use one skill. "Powers are useless" he said o.O

[Senketsu_]

Funny sidenote: My friend took Loki as starter and did not use one skill. "Powers are useless" he said o.O

lol that's sounds like something my younger brother would say. He also picked loki as his starter. But he is a genius at the game.

[Kiochy]

Oberon is a great warframe for newer players yet hard to find for them.

 

edit: "locking" ash behind manic was a bad idea imo.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Kiochy

[fatpig84]

Oberon is a great warframe for newer players yet hard to find for them.

 

Uhmm no ?

 

I brought MR3 and MR4 to T2D / T3D and they walk out with 2 out of 3 parts of Broberon.

That is just 1 run.

 

2 runs and he is done.

[alfaomega04]

I think oberon should be one of the starters. He's balanced and while he does well for low-mid level content, damage abilities don't do much for higher end. So you would have your melee frame (cal), your gunplay frame (volt), and then your all around balanced frame with some cc and healing abilities (oberon). Reason why I think volt is more gunplay is becuase he's a bit squishy but with his shields, he does an amazing job at gunplay in any missions.

Edited August 21, 2015 by alfaomega04

[JalakBali]

Have you even tried Pull on a rank 0 Mag against any node in Mercury except for Vor? It's a room clearer. Clearly better than Volt's  and Excalibur's first skill.

 

But if Mag were to be replaced, Ember and Banshee are decent choices. Banshee would be less straight forward but Ember would be fun for new players and feel powerful until they hit the wall.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I think oberon should be one of the starters. He's balanced and while he does well for low-mid level content, damage abilities don't do much for higher end. So you would have your melee frame (cal), your gunplay frame (volt), and then your all around balanced frame with some cc and healing abilities (oberon). Reason why I think volt is more gunplay is becuase he's a bit squishy but with his shields, he does an amazing job at gunplay in any missions.

Actually I believe that Oberon shouldn't be the 3rd frame for 2 reasons. 

1) We already have a "Jack of all Trades" frame in the form of Volt, 2 would be confusing

2) It's nice to have a more female based frame in the beginning because many people would pick the warframe they would want to wear (I know I did with Volt) so why not give female players that same opportunity. 

 

I believe that Ember can be a decent switch. Yes, I know already that Ember has her own share of problems but at least both Corpus and Grineer have lots of flesh units you can cook alive on the battlefield. Also she is much more straight forward of "BURN EVERYTHING!!!". But she does need a rework of her own. That said, Mag is seen as one of the poster frames of the game, especially looking at all the trailers so I would rather have a reworked Mag than switching to Ember but there is still potential. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Have you even tried Pull on a rank 0 Mag against any node in Mercury except for Vor? It's a room clearer. Clearly better than Volt's  and Excalibur's first skill.

 

But if Mag were to be replaced, Ember and Banshee are decent choices. Banshee would be less straight forward but Ember would be fun for new players and feel powerful until they hit the wall.

Actually once you hit the wall where Ember can't burn enemies to death, you could always shift to a Firequake build, turning you from damage to Long range knockdown CC machine. It's actually an interesting way for players to learn that CC > Damage late game but allowing you to keep your frame but with a different build. Yes it does require you to transfer from Ember to Ember Prime if you don't want to spend Forma for the build but it's still possible. 

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I remember when me and my friend started a game, he wrecked enemies with his Mag (while I was hiding behind my Decoy as Loki). Pull is incredibly strong ability for early levels. She might have some difficulties against Grineer later on, but by the time you get there you probably should be able to build another frame.

 

On the other hand, when we started, there were times when every planet was dominated by Corpus, so that might have helped a bit, I don't know. But I definitely remember Mag being one of the best starter frame. Of course now we have OPbur...

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I remember when me and my friend started a game, he wrecked enemies with his Mag (while I was hiding behind my Decoy as Loki). Pull is incredibly strong ability for early levels. She might have some difficulties against Grineer later on, but by the time you get there you probably should be able to build another frame.

 

On the other hand, when we started, there were times when every planet was dominated by Corpus, so that might have helped a bit, I don't know. But I definitely remember Mag being one of the best starter frame. Of course now we have OPbur...

Well all of those enemies on Earth in the beginning can die to a stiff breeze. We have also obtained many new frames, some of which do her job better. Nyx controls the entire battlefield with Chaos, Loki's Irradiating Disarm can make Heavy Gunners and Bombards useless, Oberon's Reckoning is basically Crush + Chaos since it makes anyone who lives have the Radiation status effect, even Hydroid has more CC, yes, THE most forgotten Warframe in the game has more CC than Mag. 

 

Mag should feel like you are Freak'n Magnito! Use magnets to bend the surroundings to your will, turn your enemy's protective armor into their own walking tomb, their projectiles should be your play things. THIS should be how Mag works.

[Carl_Bar]

Talking of Hydroid he might make a good starter frame despite his issues.

 

That said IMO all the current starter frames need binning and replacing with frames designed to be starter frames. the number one low level frame issue is that until you get a decent amount of mods leveled, a reactor, and a full 30 levels on your frame you generally have poor base survivability forcing you to save a energy for emergency abilities and that with your poor power efficiency and max power tends to leave you devoid of other stuff you can do with your powers.

 

That's why rhino would be an awesome starter frame even in his current form. Iron Skin provides a completely persistent effect for modest power that sidesteps a lot of your potential frailty issues on a frame that's allready got good low level survival stats. And once you get the energy for it his ultimate is a very effective oh crap switch.

 

Starter frames need more powers that semi-ape iron skin. i.e. they persist till the full effect is expended, that way they can give themselves a significant boost at the start of the mission, refreshing it periodically as it is expended whilst saving the majority of their energy income for actual get out of jail free moments that they inevitably need.

 

I've been tempted to post a few idea's over in fan creations tbh.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Oberon is a great warframe for newer players yet hard to find for them.

edit: "locking" ash behind manic was a bad idea imo.

Manics? Seriously? Hell, good that i had it easy back then.

No wonder tho after all the buffs he got to his kit...

Edit: Rhino probably deserves a spot. I mean he is one of the best frames for beginners... tanky, not as relying on powers at a point in the game where efficiency mods are rare.

Excal deserves the spot(excal 2.0 plays himself) and volt represents a CC caster allready. Might as well switch mag with rhino.

Edited August 21, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Dawn11715]

I dont see why rhino cant be a starter frame.

He has a nice balance between tanking damage dealing and doesnt need much mods to be good.

Also, as players advance, other frames, with more complex ability's will get there interest.

For me best starter frames would be zephyr, Rhino and Volt 

[Swailwort]

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino.

Learnt it the hard way.. Rhino was my 3rd Frame. After using him, noticed I almost forgot how to use Nyx so I sold him. Prettt happy now.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Swailwort

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino.

Learnt it the hard way.. Rhino was my 3rd Frame. After using him, noticed I almost forgot how to use Nyx so I sold him. Prettt happy now.

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino.

Learnt it the hard way.. Rhino was my 3rd Frame. After using him, noticed I almost forgot how to use Nyx so I sold him. Prettt happy now.

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino.

Learnt it the hard way.. Rhino was my 3rd Frame. After using him, noticed I almost forgot how to use Nyx so I sold him. Prettt happy now.

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino.

Learnt it the hard way.. Rhino was my 3rd Frame. After using him, noticed I almost forgot how to use Nyx so I sold him. Prettt happy now.

Thing is: rhino is only good at the beginning. Iron skin doesn't scale and even a maxed build isn't viable in endgame content.

He would be a perfect pick to learn and process.

[Carl_Bar]

Rhino should never be a Starter Frame. Never. Iron Skin would make every beginner rely on Iron Skin to survive, and when they get a new frame that is not Rhino, they will just go back to Rhino. 

 

Erm, if they're going to do that they'd never stick around the game anyway. Besides oif your relying on iron skin past about 20 your going to start instantly dying when you hit 30's content.

 

The whole point though about saying rhino should be a starter frame though IS about letting them rely on iron skin. New players have crap for health, shields, and armour, no mods or mod points to get good in those area's, and insufficient power capacity or power efficiency to rely on powers. they need some kind of high uptime low energy high defence passive defensive power to not be reduced to cannon fodder.

 

Of course it would help if more of the low level frames weren't utter irredeemable pants. Far too many frames readily available to low level players, (i.e, early boss drops et al), are either super weak or require some heavy modding with not readily available mods to really make work because they rely on powers so hardcore, or certain power builds so hardcore, that newer players can't make them work.

 

Rhino's a great example of a frame that's got good capability without massive modding, he just scales awfully.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Carl_Bar

[Archistopheles]

I started as Mag back when her pull was single target... And yes, we didn't have Nullifiers back then, but I still enjoy Mag and would recommend her to any starting player.

 

Being squishy teaches you to dodge. Get Mag. Get Gud.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I started as Mag back when her pull was single target... And yes, we didn't have Nullifiers back then, but I still enjoy Mag and would recommend her to any starting player.

Being squishy teaches you to dodge. Get Mag. Get Gud.

Or...don't use powers at all. That's what this statement comes down to. And that's also what starting warframe feels like. No efficiency, no powers. The activation could just as well be worth it at least.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Well all of those enemies on Earth in the beginning can die to a stiff breeze. We have also obtained many new frames, some of which do her job better. Nyx controls the entire battlefield with Chaos, Loki's Irradiating Disarm can make Heavy Gunners and Bombards useless, Oberon's Reckoning is basically Crush + Chaos since it makes anyone who lives have the Radiation status effect, even Hydroid has more CC, yes, THE most forgotten Warframe in the game has more CC than Mag. 

 

Mag should feel like you are Freak'n Magnito! Use magnets to bend the surroundings to your will, turn your enemy's protective armor into their own walking tomb, their projectiles should be your play things. THIS should be how Mag works.

Don't forget that by the time you reach Earth you probably only have some mk weapons or regular Braton, and Earth is pretty tough planet for newbies. I still remember when Interception was blocking the path and most new players could barely pass it on their own. Also don't forget that new players don't have any ability mods, and it's hard to cast ultimates left and right. You can't build for 30 seconds invisibility or cast Radial Disarm every 10 seconds. I barely used any powers other than Decoy when I started as Loki, because turning invisible for 10 seconds seemed useless to me, and using 100 energy to disarm an enemy which I'm going to kill soon seemed not very effective as well. Mag's Pull however is cheap and is one of the best damaging 1st abilities for early game (300 damage for all the enemies in front of you is pretty good when your weapons deal like 20-50 per shot), and it also provides lots of CC.

 

I'm not saying that Mag doesn't need some work, but she certainly is not the worst frame for early game.

[Heidrek]

I guess she's the starter frame for caster frames?