weezedog Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Ancient Disruptor's Aura reduces all damage done by powers. This is expected. However, Ancient auras are NOT supposed to apply to themselves or or other Ancients. This is the unexpected part. It has been 100% confirmed by Glen that (at least with Ancient Healers) their auras do not stack and do not apply to themselves or other Ancients. You would think that this logic should also apply to Ancient Disruptors as well. Edited September 28, 2015 by weezedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubjectL Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Hey Tenno! Thanks for reporting. We will be investigating Frost's ability damage output to make sure it's on track. Its not just for warframes, its for weapons as well, i noticed with my quanta vandal.. Edited September 28, 2015 by SubjectL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon_J Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) that explains why ive seen frost doing odd damage lately Edited September 28, 2015 by Dillon_J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulcun Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I can say its very frustrating to see critical numbers around 100 with my lanka on those ancients... especially in long void survivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Danielle Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 OP mentioned inconsistencies with other frames also Its not just for warframes, its for weapons as well, i noticed with my quanta vandal.. Oh yup! My bad, mis-worded a bit there. We are aware that all of the aforementioned frames and enemies are affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubjectL Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Oh yup! My bad, mis-worded a bit there. We are aware that all of the aforementioned frames are affected. Thank you .3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridesfury Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 this have anything to do with https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/503062-torid-ninja-nerfed-or-bugging/ that bug showed up on u17 release and has been causing torid to do abnormally low damage to all targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The line of code that DE Glen showed us would suggest that the same kind of ancient's aura doesn't stack with the same kind of ancient. Different kinds of ancients by the code example we were shown would stack just fine. For example, if a New Loka hit squad attacks, each individual eximus with a different aura will layer those aura however, a second firery ancient healer's aura would not improve the ancient healer eximi any more than the first as the aura would not further stack. Also, two ancient healers wouldn't give layered damage resistance with only the two of them which was the code line that DE Glen showed us if I recall. Area effect damage from weapons should also be experiencing similar damage results around ancients as I believe the Healers reduce all damage and the disruptors' aura reduces area of effect damage, not just ability damage. This was set so that weapons like the Penta had a harder time against infested. Both ancients being there should make weapons like the Penta or Angstrum do little damage indeed; even worse if the weapon has toxin damage and the Toxin Ancient is around since it negates all toxin damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hey Tenno! Thanks for reporting. We will be investigating Frost's ability damage output to make sure it's on track. The issue he is reporting has zero to do with Frost. He is reporting that Ancients have a body part on their upper back that takes 50% damage. This isn't even a bug; it's just a body part multiplier that isn't listed on the wiki and that most people didn't know existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Ancient Disruptor's Aura reduces all damage done by powers. This is expected. However, Ancient auras are NOT supposed to apply to themselves or or other Ancients. This is the unexpected part. It has been 100% confirmed by Glen that (at least with Ancient Healers) their auras do not stack and do not apply to themselves or other Ancients. You would think that this logic should also apply to Ancient Disruptors as well. This is how it acts for now: 1.Healer's Aura reduces its allies' ANY damage by 90% (which will heal the ancient), and provides knock back/knockdown immunity, and absorbs all status from its allies to itself. Healer's aura can not cover itself and other ancients. 2.Disruptor's Aura reduces certain(but not all) ABILITIES damage by 90% for ALL allies within range, including ITSELF and other ancients. 3.However, some non-Humanoid enemies uses wrong body part multiplier when AoE/Radial ability damage is applied. Ancient uses 0.5x multiplier (head gear behind its head.) from certain AoE ability damage. MOA type enemies use 3.0x multiplier (its small pack) from certain AoE ability damage. 4.There are some exception like freeze, javelin, miasma and E.Blade those can hit torso correctly but also IGNORE Disruptor's Aura. ---------------------------------------------------------- What to be expected is: 1.AoE/radial ability should hit torso for all enemies, uses 1.0x damage multiplier. 2.Disruptor's Aura should NOT cover itself or other ancients. BTW, anyone wants to test Mesa's peacemaker on ancient healer and disruptor? Edited October 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Oh yup! My bad, mis-worded a bit there. We are aware that all of the aforementioned frames and enemies are affected. It did take me a lot time for those tests (and retry after every update) :p I am glad finally DE staff has noticed this :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Its not just for warframes, its for weapons as well, i noticed with my quanta vandal.. Ancient Healer's aura absorbs any damage by 90% from other non-ancient infested within range. Ancient Disroptor's aura reduced certain ability damage by 90%. If you are talking about weapon damage, I think Healer's aura works correctly. I can say its very frustrating to see critical numbers around 100 with my lanka on those ancients... especially in long void survivals. If you can critical, Then it's your weapon damage that has been absorbed by ancient healer's aura (not Disruptor's aura). So 90% of the damage is absorbed and ancient is healed by the value. This is CORRECT if you are hitting any non-ancient infested within a healer's aura. The issue he is reporting has zero to do with Frost. He is reporting that Ancients have a body part on their upper back that takes 50% damage. This isn't even a bug; it's just a body part multiplier that isn't listed on the wiki and that most people didn't know existed. There does have some bugs, certain AoE skills are NEVER effected by body part multiplier. And certain skills can ignore disruptor's aura. Example: Frost's skill 1 deals a lot more damage than skill 2 and 4 on disruptor. (262+131 vs 26 vs 56) And Ancient's Auras should NOT cover itself or other ancients. Anyways, CC abilities are not effected by both aura, CC for the win. Edited October 5, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Add new test: Atlas: Landslide deals 50% of expected damage on ancient healer. (0.5x part multiplier) Landslide deals 50% of expected damage on ancient disruptor. (0.5x part multiplier, but ignores disruptor aura) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laysonbaal Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I have noticed this as well. Hydroid tentacles deal 0 dmg to disruptors. No matter power strenght. As you have stated, rhino stomp sucks against them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yeah, Atlas's Landslide hits Ancient back plates. It ignores Diruptor aura because it counts as a melee attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yeah, Atlas's Landslide hits Ancient back plates. It ignores Diruptor aura because it counts as a melee attack. However... Excalibur's Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Ash's Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. So basically there's no correct rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) However... Excalibur's Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Ash's Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. So basically there's no correct rules. Those are consistent. Back plate reduces damage by 50% and Disruptor aura reduces ability damage by 90%. Hitting the back plate reduces the damage to 50%, then that amount is reduced to one tenth of its value, with a result of 5% of original damage. Slash Dash and Blade Storm are also not melee attacks, despite charging/benefiting from the combo counter. In fact, in this case you could consider the Disruptor aura a kind of litmus test that determines whether something is considered a power or an attack, as exemplified by Landslide which appears to be a power but is actually handled as an attack by the game. Edited October 11, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Those are consistent. Back plate reduces damage by 50% and Disruptor aura reduces ability damage by 90%. Hitting the back plate reduces the damage to 50%, then that amount is reduced to one tenth of its value, with a result of 5% of original damage. Slash Dash and Blade Storm are also not melee attacks, despite charging/benefiting from the combo counter. In fact, in this case you could consider the Disruptor aura a kind of litmus test that determines whether something is considered a power or an attack, as exemplified by Landslide which appears to be a power but is actually handled as an attack by the game. So it considers Frost's Freeze a melee attack? Freeze ignores disruptor's aura and won't hit 0.5x... What about Javelins and Miasma? Those skills ignore 0.5x part and disruptor's aura. And your weapon won't hit 0.5x part even if you want... And... Why does MOA type take 3x damage but only Anti-MOA takes 1.0x correctly? TBH those body part multipliers are messed up. This is how we think the rule should be: AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. And Ancient's aura should not cover itself or other ancients. Edited October 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) By the way... Add Oberon skill damage on both ancients. Oberon Smite deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor. However, orb projectiles after this initial smite deal 100% of expected damage against disruptor, sometimes even 200%... Reckoning deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor. Edited October 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) So it considers Frost's Freeze a melee attack? Freeze ignores disruptor's aura and won't hit 0.5x... What about Javelins and Miasma? Those skills ignore 0.5x part and disruptor's aura. And your weapon won't hit 0.5x part even if you want... And... Why does MOA type takes 3x damage but only Anti-MOA takes 1.0x correctly? TBH those body part multipliers are messed up. This is how we think the rule should be: AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. And Ancient's aura should not cover any ancients. Weapons will hit the back plate if you aim them there. It's usually a pain to do so because it's high up on their back (lol) and he Ancient is typically facing you. If they turn around to attack someone else, however, it's not uncommon to hit the plate (aim for the limbs in that case.) Regular MOA variants and Mutualist MOA's have a fanny pack that takes x3 damage, while Fusion/Corrupted/Anti MOAs do not. Ancients are affected by their own personal aura, but not the auras of others. Freeze's projectile and AOE will ignore the back plate if the projectile hit it, but the AOE will hit the back plate if you don't score a direct hit, from any angle. If you hit the head, the projectile and the AOE will both headshot. Disruptor aura reduces the damage of the AOE, but not the projectile. Gonna test Excal and Saryn now. RJ is treated as a projectile (albeit, one that spawns close to enemies) that can headshot (but almost never does due to spawning around the legs most of the time) and ignores the Disruptor aura. Because it spawns near the legs, it rarely hits the Ancient's back plate. Rj can also actually miss if it spawns at a weird angle and will fly past its target (I speculate that it could also hit a different enemy than the one it spawned for, in this manner. Edited October 11, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Ancients are affected by their own personal aura, but not the auras of others. Freeze's projectile and AOE will ignore the back plate if the projectile hit it, but the AOE will hit the back plate if you don't score a direct hit, from any angle. If you hit the head, the projectile and the AOE will both headshot. Disruptor aura reduces the damage of the AOE, but not the projectile. No... Ancient healer's aura NEVER covers itself and any other ancients. Ancient healer itself has no 90% damage reduction nor CC immunity. It absorbs 90% of nearby (non-ancient) allies' damage and heals itself by that value. It also provides knockdown immunity to allies and transfer their status to itself. Additionally, it also heals 100 health for nearby allies per tick, but it never directly heals itself. But Disruptor aura can cover itself and ancient healer... And multiple Disruptor's aura stack (energy drain effect) so effected infested can drain crazy amount of your energy by 1 hit. Back to the topic. Those body parts' hit box are very strange. All these weird results use the hit box that is the most difficult to hit, and has extreme multiplier. (Back fanny pack / head gear behind the head.) Freeze and Fireball act differently... Tons of radial abilities act differently... Even if you find more info about your theory, the fact is... it should not act like this. It is not fair for those frames. No offense but why do you defend this weird bug (or a flawed mechanism if you insist it's not a bug)? We just want things to be right. AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. And Ancient's aura should not cover itself or other ancients. That would be more reasonable. Edited October 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Miasma confirmed to ignore both the back plate and the Disruptor aura. Not sure why that is, but Miasma is a weird exception to other nukes at the moment. Let's hope DE fixes Saryn one of these days. No... Ancient healer's aura never covers itself. And those body parts' hit box are very strange. All these weird results use the hit box that is the most difficult to hit. (Back fanny pack / head gear behind the head.) Freeze and Fireball act differently... (100% vs 5% on disruptor) Tons of radial abilities act differently... So I think this is not correct. AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. And Ancient's aura should not cover itself or other ancients. That would be much more reasonable. Healer aura doesn't cover itself, obviously, but Toxic and Disruptor auras cover their ancient. Seems like they target the back of the enemy, which is weird, but has been the way things are for a long time. Freeze and Fireball are similar; direct hits are unreduced by Disruptor aura while AOE is. Fireball AOE is absolute while Freeze AOE is affected by fall-off to an extent. Fireball AOE always headshots ancients while Freeze AOE might hit back plate depending on angle, but usually hits the body. I haven't been able to headshot with Freeze AOE. Note that Fireball's procs always do full damage to all kinds of ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Miasma confirmed to ignore both the back plate and the Disruptor aura. Not sure why that is, but Miasma is a weird exception to other nukes at the moment. Let's hope DE fixes Saryn one of these days. It's not Saryn that needs a fix. AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. And Ancient's aura should not cover itself or other ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) And Ancient's aura should not cover itself That's like saying that a Nullifier's bubble shouldn't cover the Nullifier. If Disruptors weren't affected by their own aura we would blow them away with powerspam the same way we do everything else. Edited October 18, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 That's like saying that a Nullifier's bubble shouldn't cover the Nullifier. If Disruptors weren't affected by their own aura we would blow them away with powerspam the same way we do everything else. Well, compared to ancient's aura, bubble is very small and can be destroyed. If the radius of disruptor aura can be toned down a bit but still cover itself (but doesn't cover other ancients). It would be more reasonable. I doubt they give a sh#3@ though. At least, AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier. Most extreme cases will be solved, easy and fair. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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