The Casual Carousel

[Eyymily]

And buff Defense, and buff Interception, and buff all the other game modes? No. This one is the exception.

 

If you check the stats I posted you'll see that it was already 3.5x faster -- the change made it marginally faster but it was already out of whack. 

Original survival was fun, then it was changed to what it is now except it also got a nerf to spawns and life support
Defense used to be faster as well
Interception was never good to farm anything other than affinity
Exterminate just got fixed after being very broken for very long
Then there's things like hijacks and rescues, which nobody does, ever
In fact, aside from resource farming, nobody does any of those nodes, because they're boring, unrewarding, slow, easy, unengaging, whatever else you want to call it

People liked excavation because it was going at a pace they expected from a fast paced game.
Nerfing excavation (again) won't make players play the other modes, it will make them not play excavation.
Do we really need another reason to do nothing but void and draco all day long?

Also, do me a favor and rerun the nodes on matchmaking instead of a premade, assuming you will make it to 2k, it will be with half of the drills surviving, at best

Edited January 25, 2016 by Eyymily

[BluelitHalo]

And buff Defense, and buff Interception, and buff all the other game modes? No. This one is the exception.

 

Excavation is the only game mode in which the reward rate scales sufficiently with the amount of effort you put into it.  It might as well be a rule.

Edited January 25, 2016 by AzureEmulation

[Brendrei]

Speaking of void, if it isn't for the freaking ARGON CRYSTALS, I won't ever go into any endless game modes anymore.

 

They are all slow and tedious, especially how Defense get longer and longer along with the levels and Survival only offers you clustered enemies that aren't even manageable.

 

To be honest, two of the most interesting and skill-rewarding game modes -- Spy and Excavation, are never in the void.

 

Both reward skills, the former one individual ability and the later one team cooperation, and gives suitable quantity of rewards.

 

Why not make the game more interesting the further we go/ the more effort (speaking of which is definitely not TIME) we invest?

[angrykenji]

I'm sorry but I agree with the last few posts regarding these changes. These are comments from your real playerbase, people who run with different people, players and behaviours and nodes.

I could extrapolate further but the fact is the grind has been increased and the general, non-perfect squad suffers. you are pushing your findings, a fraction of the what other squads can do, onto the entire playerbase. and the excavators have had no changes. still incredibly easy to get destroyed and a waste of reward and time.

if you think you're still correct, Glen, then I highly suggest reading the reddit. we aren't here to scream or shout, but our feedback is blunt and constructive. I've been playing since U7 so I've seen all the changes and I think there are so many other aspects of the game that needs work on rather than tweaking an already satisfactory game mode into a sad version of itself.

I'd be interested to see the results of different excavation nodes runs consisted entirely of PUGs for one of your entire streams.

Edited January 25, 2016 by angrykenji

[Urdillo]

And buff Defense, and buff Interception, and buff all the other game modes? No. This one is the exception.

 

If you check the stats I posted you'll see that it was already 3.5x faster -- the change made it marginally faster but it was already out of whack. 

 

In case that excavation turns in 5min (more or less) per dig site, the cryotic obtained per excavation would be the same (100)?

[Jaysus41]

I'm not sure what the "ideal reward rate" is considered over at DE HQ, but it seems that's the thing that needs tweaking the most. Like it's been said a number of times already, Excavation is the only mission type on the starchart that gives rewards at a satisfactory pace and is somewhat challenging, its even fun sometimes. take that away, and whats left?

Not much of anything, thats what.

Exterminate? It doesn't offer any interesting rewards and, well, it was recently broken over someones knee.
Sabotage? Not fun, no meaningful reward, pass.
Spy? I've run probably around 600 - 800 Spys already, the thought of doing another makes me feel physically ill.
Rescue? If specters were useful I might be interested, but without a meaningful reward its in the "Blech" catagory. Also, braindead AI gives me a headache.
Survival? Its a damn waiting simulator. Twiddle thumbs for reward.
Defense? See Survival, but add risk of failure due to enemies with runaway scaling one-shotting the pod.
Hijack? Do people even remember that mission type? No fun, no reward = no play.

Out of all the ones I care to remember, Deception is the only one left I would do for fun simply because its the only one left that I can speed through with my mobility Loki, that sense of speed in whats supposed to be a fast paced action game is really enjoyable. It's a shame the "fast paced" part doesn't pop up very often.

So, Glen, do you really want to burn the forums down again? Then leave Excavation rewards alone. Take a look at all the other missions types with lackluster rewards and pace and give them some love.

[Victorovich]

This conclusion is @(*()$ insane.  

  

Yes excavation is the exception because it is arguably the only game mode that is worth playing on the star map. Rest you nerfed into the @(*()$ oblivion, so its painfully inefficient to play. It's really safer for one's mental health not to play rest of starmap at all than grind something there.  

  

First, let me remind you how every primed mod requires 528 cores to max. 1.5 minutes for 25% of getting 5 cores is 6 minutes on average for 5 cores more or less reliably. Unless you, Glen, think we are farming Power Throws or cash caches there, you should realize current Excavation is already about as rewarding as survival is (6ish minutes for reward vs exactly 5 for a reward) when you consider all rewards valuable when they actually aren't.  

 

Second, do you think your one run on every node is enough samples? Well, no, its not. Tilesets are very different and you can get insanely lucky maps every once in a while. And insanely inefficient spawns can be a thing too especially now that you made it so extractors spawn half the map away from each other.  

  

Third, you are using an organized group who is capable of splitting for extractors reliably. That's not how things happen in public games. To add to that, your entire group is capable of doing damage for entire 2000 cryotic run, which is also more often than not not the case in publics.  

  

Forth, drill stats don't scale at all so teams are either forced into defense frames or tons-of-cc-frames. When a single person doesn't pick optimally, entire group suffers. Welcome to public games again.  

  

Fifth, you are encouraging us to split from each other, so importance of individual player strength grows even more. It also theoretically takes away affinity gains from ally kills for obvious reasons.  

  

I doubt you will get the amount of backlash you deserve for excavation changes, but regardless you should stop treating players as enemies.

Totally agreed on this one.

 

I'm not sure what the "ideal reward rate" is considered over at DE HQ, but it seems that's the thing that needs tweaking the most. Like it's been said a number of times already, Excavation is the only mission type on the starchart that gives rewards at a satisfactory pace and is somewhat challenging, its even fun sometimes. take that away, and whats left?

Not much of anything, thats what.

Exterminate? It doesn't offer any interesting rewards and, well, it was recently broken over someones knee.

Sabotage? Not fun, no meaningful reward, pass.

Spy? I've run probably around 600 - 800 Spys already, the thought of doing another makes me feel physically ill.

Rescue? If specters were useful I might be interested, but without a meaningful reward its in the "Blech" catagory. Also, braindead AI gives me a headache.

Survival? Its a damn waiting simulator. Twiddle thumbs for reward.

Defense? See Survival, but add risk of failure due to enemies with runaway scaling one-shotting the pod.

Hijack? Do people even remember that mission type? No fun, no reward = no play.

Out of all the ones I care to remember, Deception is the only one left I would do for fun simply because its the only one left that I can speed through with my mobility Loki, that sense of speed in whats supposed to be a fast paced action game is really enjoyable. It's a shame the "fast paced" part doesn't pop up very often.

So, Glen, do you really want to burn the forums down again? Then leave Excavation rewards alone. Take a look at all the other missions types with lackluster rewards and pace and give them some love.

Upvoted.

I don't get the logic of the change, if it is "to get the guys running other missions we must nerf the only good game mode for pubs on star map to oblivion", then it's really bad.

It reminds me of quite a recent change one online Tank/Aircraft game got: "uh oh the top tier guys have low amounts of players to fight with, lets make lower tier (which was the most popular and balanced) where 75% of tanks can't do anything to top tier guys, unless really lucky, fight together". After that I haven't been playing that game anymore.

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Victorovich

[BETAOPTICS]

Only now heard about it. I got to check this out today! =)

[Gio21]

please dont nerf excavation and bring the rest up to par,

like the sortie missions but apply them to all?

or maybe remove 2nd A roll and have it A, B, C, A, B, C,

make def waves faster
i was thinking something like make the 5 waves 1 big but maybe thats not possible , maybe make them 3 or 4

survival with 3-4mins per reward,

or have a switch somewhere to make it harder and faster also?

interception maybe a little boost to cap time,
and/or with the remove of the 2nd A we can have faster games

extermination
other than the spawns not on time i dont think its bad, but that bug really makes them not so wanted


 

 

[[DE]Glen]

Gee. I spent two weekends worth of my free time with the help of volunteers in mission and watching the stream analyzing the mode with carefully tracked records and all I got for is insults and abuse. Never change, forums. Never change. 

 

I'm going to lock this thread now -- it's not being used for the stream announcements and results it was meant for.  

[[DE]Rebecca]

Just so people can have a little insight to what reactions this has caused, there has now been healthy debate occurring at DE for hours (still continuing into this evening) about bigger picture issues with time, rewards, and missions. Glen and I are now both on a path to collect even more data. As the data and debate starts to yield plans of interest, we'll make a Dev Workshop to continue the discussion together. 

[[DE]Glen]

Going live in on twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 10 minutes. Thinking about doing a review of the ODS spawn tweaks, maybe some Europa too since we saw some sore spots last time.

[blazekan5]

Going live in on twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 10 minutes. Thinking about doing a review of the ODS spawn tweaks, maybe some Europa too since we saw some sore spots last time.

yey

[[DE]Glen]

Thanks to everyone who came by and helped out and gratz to the people who won the giveaways! If you missed the show I hope to be back again tomorrow!

[GordoFreeman]

Thanks to everyone who came by and helped out and gratz to the people who won the giveaways! If you missed the show I hope to be back again tomorrow!

 

Glad to see you again riding the carousel Glen, especially after the last one. Keep on with the testing and data gathering and have some fun while doing it of course ; )

[MagPrime]

If only I was in the same timezone, I would love to participate. : / 

[[DE]Glen]

Going to stream some Shadow:Debut Endurance on twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 10 minutes. Hope to see you there!

[DaftMeat]

Wish I could be there on my baby account.

Happy gaming, Glen!

[[DE]Glen]

Having a Casual Carousel Forma Party at twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 10 minutes.

[Hammahness808]

Having a Casual Carousel Forma Party at twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 10 minutes.

I tried watching the video but couldn't, what does a Forma party entail?

[[DE]Glen]

I tried watching the video but couldn't, what does a Forma party entail?

 

A Forma Party is where everyone in your group polarizes a bunch of gear and you go in naked (usually with only one ranked weapon as a backup). It's great fun to play with the handicap especially when some nice horse is doing stream giveaways of Forma 5-packs after every mission!

[Ibro156]

A Forma Party is where everyone in your group polarizes a bunch of gear and you go in naked (usually with only one ranked weapon as a backup). It's great fun to play with the handicap especially when some nice horse is doing stream giveaways of Forma 5-packs after every mission!

That actaully like some fun. May I ask? Is all right for randoms to join? Edited February 7, 2016 by Ibro156

[[DE]Glen]

Casual Carousel Sortie Sunday at twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 5 minutes.

That actaully like some fun. May I ask? Is all right for randoms to join?

 

The way I find it works best is I set to 'friends only' and people ninja the squad -- I accept almost all friend-requests!

[Ibro156]

Casual Carousel Sortie Sunday at twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 5 minutes.

The way I find it works best is I set to 'friends only' and people ninja the squad -- I accept almost all friend-requests!

Okay, thank you for the heads up

[[DE]Glen]

Casual Carousel Sunday Stream at twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse in about 5 minutes.