I Honestly Thought This Was A Joke

[Kestral9999]

I don't understand. Someone explain to me why choosing to type in all caps is considered spam while typing the exact same message in all lowercase, in camelcase, or in standard capitalization isn't. Have people really gone so far as to redefine spam to include using a key that is on a keyboard?

 

Edit: 90% of the posts made on tradechat are copy-pasted. The only thing preventing them from being spam is the post-timer. So why does it matter if someone chooses to type in all caps?

 

 

 

What's wrong with typing in all caps? You're working under the assumption that all caps is agreed to be bad, but I can't see any logical reason to come to that conclusion.

 

A perfectly sound explanation (it really doesn't need to be any more complicated than this) is contained below:

 

CasualBot is kickbot.  He changes names to various injokes regularly.

 

Kicking for caps-lock is a good idea.  Only reason to type in all caps was to make your message stand out over other people, who would just use Caps-lock themselves to prevent being drowned out.  This way, we don't end up with everybody in all caps for no good reason.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

What makes me sad is I use caps lock to show I'm excited. (I yell irl when I'm excited) Now I can't express myself. Not that I ever talk to anyone anyways.

[ADFXOzymandias]

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR OPINION. Sounds about right.

Show of hands. Who enjoyed having everyone type their adverts in all caps?

[Renathy]

I, too, enjoy passive-aggressiveness.

 

If you capitalize every letter in your post, they'll turn full-aggressive on you.

[Phatose]

 

There are ways...

 

 

There's no cost for that 'advertisement'.  Your letters are bigger then people who don't hit caps lock, and stand out.  But since everybody can hit caps lock, absolutely free, everyone *will*.

 

The end result is that your message doesn't stand out, cause everybody else also types in all caps, and we just end up with a chat that's always all-caps, and harder to read, to no advantage to anybody, and it's harder to read for everybody.

 

This stops that.  It's the same as kicking for people using ******** in front of their posts to stand out, and for the same reason.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Phatose

[GravesTheOutlaw]

Show of hands. Who enjoyed having everyone type their adverts in all caps?

Exactly. I (and a lot of others I'm sure) automatically tune out and ignore people who are prolific caps users (in some cases I outright put them on my ignore list). You're not gonna get as much business when you blot out the sun with caps.

Edited August 24, 2015 by GravesTheOutlaw

[Renathy]

Show of hands. Who enjoyed having everyone type their adverts in all caps?

 

Most people that stumbled on this thread. That still doesn't prove your point, or anyone else's. You're all telling me it floods the chat, I can see that. I don't have a problem with it. I have problems with people who continuously post the same message over and over in a short amount of time, whether it's capitalized or not. They mentioned the trading chat would be completely reworked long ago. They're just going to kick anyone who types a short sentence in all-caps.

[GravesTheOutlaw]

Most people that stumbled on this thread. That still doesn't prove your point, or anyone else's. You're all telling me it floods the chat, I can see that. I don't have a problem with it. I have problems with people who continuously post the same message over and over in a short amount of time, whether it's capitalized or not. They mentioned the trading chat would be completely reworked long ago. They're just going to kick anyone who types a short sentence in all-caps.

While I agree that a short statement in all caps is not exactly fair to be subject to the caps rules, if they remove this rule and everyone types short sentences in caps it will still be overwhelming.

[Kestral9999]

Most people that stumbled on this thread. That still doesn't prove your point, or anyone else's. You're all telling me it floods the chat, I can see that. I don't have a problem with it. I have problems with people who continuously post the same message over and over in a short amount of time, whether it's capitalized or not. They mentioned the trading chat would be completely reworked long ago. They're just going to kick anyone who types a short sentence in all-caps.

Assuming that the caps lock ban change is the only change we'll be seeing to trade chat because it's the only tangible change so far is kinda asinine don't you think? They need trade chat to work to stop people from demanding an in game economy killing auction house, so it benefits them massively if they make it work in favor of everyone using it.

 

This change was basically made to even the playing field in such a way that is better than the alternative.

[Renathy]

While I agree that a short statement in all caps is not exactly fair to be subject to the caps rules, if they remove this rule and everyone types short sentences in caps it will still be overwhelming.

 

A rework of the rule wouldn't be a problem. I mean, it was my first damned sentence on the trading chat in over, I don't know, months. I lost count. It wasn't even big enough. The chat is still ridiculous, as far as I can tell, but that's none of my business... There are more important priorities, apparently.

[Kestral9999]

What makes me sad is I use caps lock to show I'm excited. (I yell irl when I'm excited) Now I can't express myself. Not that I ever talk to anyone anyways.

I'm pretty sure this is only for trade chat. If you're attempting to express yourself on trade chat, you might be doing it wrong.

[Renathy]

Assuming that the caps lock ban change is the only change we'll be seeing to trade chat because it's the only tangible change so far is kinda asinine don't you think? They need trade chat to work to stop people from demanding an in game economy killing auction house, so it benefits them massively if they make it work in favor of everyone using it.

 

This change was basically made to even the playing field in such a way that is better than the alternative.

 

Life finds a way, doesn't it. I assumed it extended to every living being.

[Tsukinoki]

The reason that they are stopping the all caps is because it was annoying and made reading the trade tab much harder.

It has been proven in numerous studies that all capitals slows down reading and comprehension, fatigues the reader more easily, and in many cultures can be seen as rude and disconcerting.

Trying to read through the trade chat where you would just see massive blocks of all caps for 7+ lines was not fun for anyone and hurt everyone trying to use the trade chat to actually trade things.
The only things all caps does is be a nuisance in those situations.

It was a good change to get rid of the walls and walls and walls of all caps text posted constantly in the trade tab and made the entire thing a lot more legible.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

I'm pretty sure this is only for trade chat. If you're attempting to express yourself on trade chat, you might be doing it wrong.

Oh, well in trade chat I just look at everything and cry because either no one is selling the part I want or no one is buying the parts I'm selling.

[Kestral9999]

Oh, well in trade chat I just look at everything and cry because either no one is selling the part I want or no one is buying the parts I'm selling.

You're a very expressive person. I can see that.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Because all caps is more visually flooding than regular typing

 

According to whom? I don't agree with that sentiment. 

 

it's really just unwanted. in these types of situations, spam = unwanted. it's also an eyesore if you have to read an entire paragraph of all caps.

 

According to whom? I have scrolled through tradechat many times and read many all caps 'paragraphs'. I never had any trouble reading them over reading the same thing in standard capitalization. This is starting to look like one giant bandwagon that people have flocked to for no reason other than to be just like everyone else.

 

It's not spam in the sense that it's too much of something being constantly sent, it's spam in the sense that it's garbage nobody wants to see.

 

I don't mind its existence.

 

I don't consider it spam as much as I do consider it someone being obnoxious. 

 

You consider someone obnoxious when they decide to press one button prior to typing?

 

At a functional level, it is substantially harder to pick out key words from rapidly scrolling, all-caps text, than it is from normal, mixed case text. If you actually want your stuff to sell, capslock is bad.

 

At a social level, the rest of the internet decided a long time ago that capslock is the equivalent of shouting, because... well, it is. It's used to gain attention, and when that's all you get, it's really annoying.

 

Kicking the captains of capslock from trade chat was 100% the right way for DE to go.

 

My personal experiences disagree. Do you have studies to back up the idea that this is true for the average individual? My eyes are drawn to all capitalized words more than they are standard words.

 

I hope you know you're exaggerating when you imply the rest of the internet agrees with you. I see all caps typing frequently on the internet. It is used to express excitement and is used to add emphasis in systems where bold, underline, and italics aren't available. I don't agree with it being annoying.

 

I completely disagree. The right way to go is preventing you from copypasting the same message over and over again. Kicking capslock users isn't improving anything. It is actually making it harder for me to read individual posts in tradechat.

 

A perfectly sound explanation (it really doesn't need to be any more complicated than this) is contained below:

 

I already addressed that.

 

Show of hands. Who enjoyed having everyone type their adverts in all caps?

 

An attempted appeal to majority? Just know that my hand is raised.

 

 

While I agree that a short statement in all caps is not exactly fair to be subject to the caps rules, if they remove this rule and everyone types short sentences in caps it will still be overwhelming.

 

"WTS ARMORED AGILITY"

 

Was this overwhelming?

 

Assuming that the caps lock ban change is the only change we'll be seeing to trade chat because it's the only tangible change so far is kinda asinine don't you think? They need trade chat to work to stop people from demanding an in game economy killing auction house, so it benefits them massively if they make it work in favor of everyone using it.

 

This change was basically made to even the playing field in such a way that is better than the alternative.

 

It is an unnecessary change and was a waste of the few minutes it took to greenlight and implement.

 

I have seen the whole "an auction house would kill the game/economy" claim over and over again, but I have yet to see a solid argument to back it.

 

I disagree with it being better. The playing field was already even. Now it has been changed unnecessarily so that it fits one demographics idea of better while the rest of us either didn't care or liked it.

 

The reason that they are stopping the all caps is because it was annoying and made reading the trade tab much harder.

It has been proven in numerous studies that all capitals slows down reading and comprehension, fatigues the reader more easily, and in many cultures can be seen as rude and disconcerting.

Trying to read through the trade chat where you would just see massive blocks of all caps for 7+ lines was not fun for anyone and hurt everyone trying to use the trade chat to actually trade things.

The only things all caps does is be a nuisance in those situations.

It was a good change to get rid of the walls and walls and walls of all caps text posted constantly in the trade tab and made the entire thing a lot more legible.

 

That's your opinion followed by an unsubstantiated claim. I never found reading all caps to be any harder.

 

Cite these studies. "in many cultures can be seen as rude and disconcerting" I need a source for this claim. Sounds more like you're referring to individual online communities.

 

Did it ever occur to you that it was the 7+ line wall of text that caused the issues rather than the use of the capslock key?

 

That's your opinion.

 

The walls haven't been removed, they've just been repainted. I do not agree with it being more legible.

[Kestral9999]

In regards to SquirmyBurrito's reply:

 

I'm for the change. It's as simple as that. I find it to not be a necessary change, but a welcome one. We simply differ on opinion and will have to accept that, as I'm not in a position nor mood to argue my point further. I respect that you disagree, though.

 

And as far as the auction house bit goes, that is a tangent topic. I was simply bringing it to light because I have a firm belief that DE's desire to avoid having one in game is part of the reason for why they're making changes to the trade chat. I could be wrong. I'm simply offering my perspective.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kestral9999

[SquirmyBurrito]

In regards to SquirmyBurrito's reply:

 

I'm for the change. It's as simple as that. I find it to not be a necessary change, but a welcome one. We simply differ on opinion and will have to accept that, as I'm not in a position nor mood to argue my point further. I respect that you disagree, though.

 

And as far as the auction house bit goes, that is a tangent topic. I was simply bringing it to light because I have a firm belief that DE's desire to avoid having one in game is part of the reason for why they're making changes to the trade chat. I could be wrong. I'm simply offering my perspective.

 

But that doesn't answer the initial question I was asking. 

 

On the auction house bit: I was just stating my observations, starting a discussion on the topic was not my intention.

[Tsukinoki]

@SquirmyBurrito
For a few sources:
Wheildon, Colin (1995). Type and Layout: How Typography and Design Can Get your Message Across - Or Get in the Way. Berkeley: Strathmoor Press. p. 62. ISBN 0-9624891-5-8

That is an official source that does talk about how all caps can get in the way and cause a variety of issues.

Also check this out:
http://practicaltypography.com/all-caps.html

Further a usability expert, Dr Jakob Nielson (holds a Ph.D. in human–computer interaction) has published quite a few books, such as Designing Web Usability, (New Riders, 2000), and has found repeatedly that by making text all caps it reduces reading speed by 10-25% over standard mixed case.

The simple fact is that:
Yes, studies have proven that all caps text is harder for the reader to read and understand quickly.

Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that the average person is the same.  You're in the minority if you can read and understand huge blocks of all caps as quickly as you can the same text in mixed case.

[Kestral9999]

But that doesn't answer the initial question I was asking. 

 

On the auction house bit: I was just stating my observations, starting a discussion on the topic was not my intention.

You never asked a question, at least not to me directly.

 

I've seen enough regarding the auction house to know that it would benefit us much more than it would DE which is simply the basis for my position. Plat sales would likely see at least a marginal drop off after it is first implemented due to ease of trading and it becoming a passive endeavor. It really all depends on how it's implemented.

[SquirmyBurrito]

@SquirmyBurrito

For a few sources:

Wheildon, Colin (1995). Type and Layout: How Typography and Design Can Get your Message Across - Or Get in the Way. Berkeley: Strathmoor Press. p. 62. ISBN 0-9624891-5-8

That is an official source that does talk about how all caps can get in the way and cause a variety of issues.

Also check this out:

http://practicaltypography.com/all-caps.html

Further a usability expert, Dr Jakob Nielson (holds a Ph.D. in human–computer interaction) has published quite a few books, such as Designing Web Usability, (New Riders, 2000), and has found repeatedly that by making text all caps it reduces reading speed by 10-25% over standard mixed case.

The simple fact is that:

Yes, studies have proven that all caps text is harder for the reader to read and understand quickly.

Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that the average person is the same.  You're in the minority if you can read and understand huge blocks of all caps as quickly as you can the same text in mixed case.

 

Unfortunately, I can not read the first source since it isn't available for free online (at least, not legally from what I can see).

 

The link you provided doesn't actually prove anything though. It just says typing in all caps is harder to read and proceeds under that assumption. The theory it is using isn't even well supported.

 

That isn't a fact. You're also mistakenly assuming that a reduced reading speed is a bad thing. It isn't unless you can also prove that it is accompanied by a decline in reading comprehension.

 

The word shape theory has never been properly supported.

 

Try this on for size: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/wordrecognition.aspx#m1

 

More specifically this "Word shape is no longer a viable model of word recognition. The bulk of scientific evidence says that we recognize a word’s component letters, then use that visual information to recognize a word. In addition to perceptual information, we also use contextual information to help recognize words during ordinary reading, but that has no bearing on the word shape versus parallel letter recognition debate. It is hopefully clear that the readability and legibility of a typeface should not be evaluated on its ability to generate a good bouma shape."

 

You never asked a question, at least not to me directly.

 

I've seen enough regarding the auction house to know that it would benefit us much more than it would DE which is simply the basis for my position. Plat sales would likely see at least a marginal drop off after it is first implemented due to ease of trading and it becoming a passive endeavor. It really all depends on how it's implemented.

 

Did you look at my original post? I clearly asked a question.

Edited August 24, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[(XBOX)Paladin Rook]

Kicked for Caps-lock? That's just plain funny.

[Kestral9999]

Did you look at my original post? I clearly asked a question.

If you're referring to "What's wrong with typing in all caps?"

 

There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with it. There isn't some massive downside to using it that wouldn't be present if you didn't use it. It's simply a matter of how often and heavily it's used. When just over half of all trades in trade chat become flooded with users posting in all caps, there comes a point where the users who haven't been able to make many trades will feel that their posts are going unnoticed because they haven't caved and begun using caps lock. I can't speak for every individual, but I know that I've been there, and it has a false sense of appeal. You're not going to get any more exposure by posting in caps, and if ever a time comes when virtually everyone in trade chat is using caps lock, it will be flooded even worse than it is currently due to the fact that caps lock causes the posts to increase in size while not increasing the size of the window in which they are displayed.

 

My question, what's 'wrong' with everyone simply not using a disproportionate amount of capital letters in their trade posts?

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kestral9999

[Camelslayer]

If you want to look like a 10 year old screaming at the computer, then knock yourself out. Pressing Caps Lock in an obvious attempt to have people pay attention to you over everyone else is fairly off-putting. Which, again, in most instances is the case.

 

Doesn't mean people that don't do it aren't desperate for something. But you don't have to stink of desperation either.

Edited August 24, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[Renathy]

If you want to look like a 10 year old screaming at the computer, then knock yourself out. Pressing Caps Lock in an obvious attempt to have people pay attention to you over everyone else is fairly off-putting. Which, again, in most instances is the case.

 

It's kind ironic, because people who imagine capitalized messages as people screaming are the 10 year olds. I see it as a form of communication, as any other, only capitalized. - I mean, what else would I be doing in the trading chat, anyway? Do you not want me to get people's attention. It's like going to a market and everybody's whispering, because they get kicked out for shouting.