Parkour 2.0 Rekt Zephyr's Mobility Uses

[Dumfing]

1: Tail Wind

You can bullet jump almost as far as Tail Wind (Only Tail Wind is spammable)

2: Dive Bomb

NOBODY uses this, it doesn't do much damage and the knockdown is insignificant. Few tiles will have large amounts of enemies AND enough vertical space to do sufficient damage with Dive Bomb.

 

Passive: Lightweight

Aim glide gives the exact same effect as Lightweight gives but with more control of your decent.

 

~Dumfing

Edited August 25, 2015 by Dumfing

[bejuizb]

While these points may be understandable, consider this: 

 

Zephyr demolishes every single other Warframe in terms of mobility when you use her abilities in conjunction with the new mobility tools in Parkour 2.0

 

Bullet Jump + Double Tailwind + Aim Glide = easy 200m blitzes in a matter of seconds. She's not gotten weaker with Parkour 2.0, but rather quite a lot more stronger.

[MissFairy]

While these points may be understandable, consider this: 

 

Zephyr demolishes every single other Warframe in terms of mobility when you use her abilities in conjunction with the new mobility tools in Parkour 2.0

 

Bullet Jump + Double Tailwind + Aim Glide = easy 200m blitzes in a matter of seconds. She's not gotten weaker with Parkour 2.0, but rather quite a lot more stronger.

I agree with you zephyr and parkour 2.0 are great. Dive bomb could use a buff though and tail wind a decrease in energy cost.

[Dumfing]

While these points may be understandable, consider this: 

 

Zephyr demolishes every single other Warframe in terms of mobility when you use her abilities in conjunction with the new mobility tools in Parkour 2.0

 

Bullet Jump + Double Tailwind + Aim Glide = easy 200m blitzes in a matter of seconds. She's not gotten weaker with Parkour 2.0, but rather quite a lot more stronger.

How many tiles does this apply to though? Grineer ships mainly have Zephyr Pan-caking against a wall

[Revel72]

Extremely good warframe for new players to start learning and training Parkour 2.0

 

She just have gotten much more better in 2.0

[Kestral9999]

How many tiles does this apply to though? Grineer ships mainly have Zephyr Pan-caking against a wall

She's not really meant for close quarters tilesets, or rather her first ability isn't.

[Hybridon]

How many tiles does this apply to though? Grineer ships mainly have Zephyr Pan-caking against a wall

 

Isn't that an issue that already happened prior to parkour 2.0 with her?

 

Shes amazing on open levels now, especially with parkour 2.0.

[DaftMeat]

Max Duration build Zephyr with Patagium is sheer amazement. Nothing else comes close in mobility.

[Gelkor]

1: Tail Wind

You can bullet jump almost as far as Tail Wind (Only Tail Wind is spammable)

 

Tailwind resets the counter on bullet jump and double jump as if you had touched a surface, Zephyr can technically double jump and bullet jump forever with never touching the ground.

 

2: Dive Bomb

NOBODY uses this, it doesn't do much damage and the knockdown is insignificant. Few tiles will have large amounts of enemies AND enough vertical space to do sufficient damage with Dive Bomb.

 

Tilesets do need to be adjusted for the new insane heights Zephyr can reach with her abilities and movement 2.0, I agree,

 

 

Passive: Lightweight

Aim glide gives the exact same effect as Lightweight gives but with more control of your decent.

 

Zephyr's lightweight applies during Aimglide, making her aimglide superior for both mobility and aiming.

 

Now Mirage on the other hand actually does need an update for Movement 2.0, as everyone has increased roll speed now and wallruns don't exist anymore, she needs an increase to Bullet Jump IMO.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Gelkor

[BlackCoMerc]

As so many have said, Divebomb needs to be built into Tailwind. Something like this:

 

-Make Tailwind a toggle that drains energy, like Maim or Effigy

 

-When you toggle it off, if your cursor is point down, you go into a Divebomb

 

Once we do this, we can give Zephyr a useful second ability. My recommendation: Wind Blast/Gale Blast/etc. Zephyr could emit a blast of hurricane wind that knocks all enemies around her away. Enemies close to her are launched backward and ragdolled. Enemies further out are either stagger, or blown backward to a much lesser degree and then staggered slightly.

 

The Augment for Gale Blast could turn it into a Vacuum effect that pulls instead of pushes, for variety and different strategies. Or do anything besides "Armor of enemies affected is reduced by X for Y" cause...really, thats getting old.

[ZoneDymo]

I love Zephyr tbh

[Archistopheles]

You can bullet jump almost as far as Tail Wind

 

I think you're building Zephyr wrong...

[Carl_Bar]

To those saying parkour 2.0 has made zephyer stronger. As someone who doesn't own her but has been loving the new parkour 2.0 on other frames i have one word to say in response:

 

BullS#&$.

 

I'm upto neptune and uranus on the star map and so far i've seen maybe a dozen cells across all the tilesets big enough that a bullet jump + glide combo on a normal frame won;t get you across all or the vast majority of the cell, and a double combo will get you across all but a couple of them.

 

Places where tail wind added onto a bullet jump + glide combo actually enhances mobility are sop rare as to be not worth talking about, 90% of the game takes place in area's where the combo is completely worthless.

 

I can't speak with any experiance on the rest of her kit, but tail wind is not the amazing mobility tool so many of you are claiming because in 90% of the game you can do the same with parkour 2.0 and tail wind cannot add anything to that because the spaces are too small.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Carl_Bar

[DaftMeat]

To those saying parkour 2.0 has made zephyer stronger. As someone who doesn't own her but has been loving the new parkour 2.0 on other frames i have one word to say in response:

 

BullS#&$.

 

I'm upto neptune and uranus on the star map and so far i've seen maybe a dozen cells across all the tilesets big enough that a bullet jump + glide combo on a normal frame won;t get you across all or the vast majority of the cell, and a double combo will get you across all but a couple of them.

 

Places where tail wind added onto a bullet jump + glide combo actually enhances mobility are sop rare as to be not worth talking about, 90% of the game takes place in area's where the combo is completely worthless.

 

I can't speak with any experiance on the rest of her kit, but tail wind is not the amazing mobility tool so many of you are claiming because in 90% of the game you can do the same with parkour 2.0 and tail wind cannot add anything to that because the spaces are too small.

 

Thanks for sharing your expertise, even though you have no direct experience using her.

[Carl_Bar]

Yeah but i have experience using everyone else. And my point that your delightfully trying to rubbish via ad hoim is that on those other frames i couldn't make use of a tail wind like ability on 90% of the cells in the game. So whether i've used her is completely irellevent.

 

But hey ad hoim ftw.

[DaftMeat]

Yeah but i have experience using everyone else. And my point that your delightfully trying to rubbish via ad hoim is that on those other frames i couldn't make use of a tail wind like ability on 90% of the cells in the game. So whether i've used her is completely irellevent.

 

But hey ad hoim ftw.

I'll see your ad hoim and raise you ultracrepidarian.

You've met a few random Zephyrs in game with no direct info provided about how well they built or used her, so you must know all about her despite having no hands on experience. Sounds super legit. Your point is noted.

 

 

P.S.: I think you meant to say ad hom, although I don't think my pointing out the fallacy of your position is a personal attack.

Edited August 25, 2015 by DaftMeat

[Carl_Bar]

Try again. Address my point instead of making completely fallacious positions that have nothing to do with anything i said.

[Gelkor]

To those saying parkour 2.0 has made zephyer stronger. As someone who doesn't own her but has been loving the new parkour 2.0 on other frames i have one word to say in response:

 

BullS#&$.

 

I'm upto neptune and uranus on the star map and so far i've seen maybe a dozen cells across all the tilesets big enough that a bullet jump + glide combo on a normal frame won;t get you across all or the vast majority of the cell, and a double combo will get you across all but a couple of them.

 

Places where tail wind added onto a bullet jump + glide combo actually enhances mobility are sop rare as to be not worth talking about, 90% of the game takes place in area's where the combo is completely worthless.

 

I can't speak with any experiance on the rest of her kit, but tail wind is not the amazing mobility tool so many of you are claiming because in 90% of the game you can do the same with parkour 2.0 and tail wind cannot add anything to that because the spaces are too small.

 

Well, Ceres actually has some very nice open spaces, and various ice planet tilesets lend themselves well to high aerial mobility.  The fact is Zephyr can move farther with fewer keypresses than any frame at the moment, and everything everyone can do in Parkour 2.0, Zephyr does better, longer, and easier.

 

You've really got to play her to actually feel what we're talking about.

[Carl_Bar]

I can't speak for ceres obvious but to reply to one line in particular:

 

and everything everyone can do in Parkour 2.0, Zephyr does better, longer, and easier.

 

And my point is on no other frame do i find i have a need to do what parkour 2.0 gives me better, longer, faster, or easier. Because with parkour 2.0 it's allready fast enough, long enough, easy enough and all round good enough.

 

Zephyr is like owning a a really hot sports car whilst living somewhere thats all tight twisty roads with no good open straights. Most if not all of the benefit is lost. You might still be able to get little bits of ooomph out of it, but your largely not getting enough for it to be worth the extra hassle.

[DaftMeat]

Try again. Address my point instead of making completely fallacious positions that have nothing to do with anything i said.

 

I did address your point, or rather your opinon:

 

 

You have never used Zephyr's Tailwind to obtain that last rare Kuria 13-3 on Ceres which is possible with parkour but ridiculously easy with Tailwind.

 

You have never used Zephyr's Tailwind while having a Hobbled key equipped to zip through the Derilict.

 

You have never used Zephyr's Tailwind to make a Void obstacle course seem completely a joke.

 

You have never used Zephyr's Tailwind to skip over an entire map tile.

 

You have never used a max duration build Zephyr with Tailwind, yet you state without any hesitation that Bullet Jump and Aim Glide make Tailwind obsolete for 90% of the game, when you haven't yet unlocked 90% of the star chart. I have done all these things, and I can say without a doubt that they are NOT repeatable just with Bullet Jump and Aim Glide. Is Tailwind enhanced by both? Absolutely, unequivocably, and without any doubt whatsoever.

 

When I point out that you only have an opinion without first-hand experience, you dismiss it as a personal attack. It's not a personal attack. All you have is a fallacious position.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

1: Tail Wind

You can bullet jump almost as far as Tail Wind (Only Tail Wind is spammable)

 

Comparing bullet jumping to Tail Wind is like comparing a hang glider to a supersonic jet.

 

Bullet jumping can send you as high as Tail Wind can (only if you're using Zephyr due to her lower gravity), but in terms of horizontal mobility, it's a slaughter. Horizontal mobility is the far more useful of the two, due to Warframe's enclosed tilesets, and in terms of horizontal mobility, parkour 2.0 was a massive buff for Zephyr. Since parkour 2.0 gives so much less horizontal mobility than coptering, Zephyr is faster than she's ever been compared to the other frames.

 

And no, Tail Wind was not nerfed. It only appears to not send you as far due to an optical illusion created by your FoV breaking every time you use Tail Wind. FoV is still broken, though.

 

2: Dive Bomb

NOBODY uses this, it doesn't do much damage and the knockdown is insignificant. Few tiles will have large amounts of enemies AND enough vertical space to do sufficient damage with Dive Bomb.

 

While I mostly agree with this, Dive Bomb has some usage protecting you from the melee enemies that Turbulence doesn't. You can stun a horde of charging melee enemies, allowing you to run to safety, or just kill them. It's still Zephyr's worst ability, though.

 

Passive: Lightweight

Aim glide gives the exact same effect as Lightweight gives but with more control of your decent.

 

Zephyr's lower gravity stacks with aim gliding, and massively increases the height and distance of all of her parkour moves. She's better at parkour than any other frame in the game.

[Carl_Bar]

I dismiss it because you not addressing my point.

 

I never said you can't do all kinds of things with tail wind.

 

I addressed whether there was anything useful on a level that justifies energy costs and an entire warframe power to be gained from mobility above and beyond what parkour 2.0 allready provides other frames that could be done with tail wind.

 

And that's the short version of the point. It doesn't matter what tail wind can do if what it can do isn't actually very useful the majority of the time. And i CAN say with absolute confidence that it is not. it's a convenient sure, but it's not especially powerful when your existing non-tail wind mobility is allready so powerful.

 

Effectively as a power mobility suffers from diminishing returns on the benefits it provides and [parkour 2.0 allready has us heavilly into diminishing returns.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Carl_Bar

[Brainwright]

Eh?  What's this?  A fun game experience isn't good enough?

 

Try telling us what you think Zephyr should be doing.  That's a far more productive use of your time.

 

I think that the new changes turned Zephyr into an attack helicopter with a style of play no other frame can match.  She's probably the only frame that can use explosives in a sane and logical manner.

 

Zephyr is awesome.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

I think you mean "Enhanced" her mobility

[_Locke_]

As so many have said, Divebomb needs to be built into Tailwind. Something like this:

 

-Make Tailwind a toggle that drains energy, like Maim or Effigy

 

-When you toggle it off, if your cursor is point down, you go into a Divebomb

 

Yeah, Divebomb feels pretty redundant. Here's what they should probably do: Whenever you use Tailwind and run into any surface, it'll trigger the aoe knockdown attack of Divebomb. This would make Zephyr better in tight spaces as well.

 

In a tiny room? Activate Tail Wind to crash yourself into the ceiling. Enemies at the end of a hallway? Jump into the air, then use Tail Wind to launch yourself forward into the wall behind them. In a large open area and flying around with a bunch of enemies below you? Tailwind straight down and dive into the ground.

 

I don't really care what ability they could add to replace Divebomb, but Tail Wind and Divebomb really should be consolidated especially now that bullet jumping has made Tail Wind not feel not that unique of an ability.

Edited August 26, 2015 by -Col-