Survival Balancing

[[DE]Whirrrrr]

Spawning fixes and tileset tweaks over the past year greatly improved flow by reducing enemy travel time to players, upped the intensity of attackers and grouped enemies together into more tightly packed squads, and increased availability of points during spawn selection. While we're happy with these changes to enemies, one side effect is that survival difficulty drifted over the past few months to where it is now; plentiful large canisters and no reason to use them, even when not trying to stockpile them.

 

We'd like to bring back the original frantic gameplay style of survival, dashing from room to room while facing hordes of enemies against the clock. We've tried this solo, in small teams and in full squads, everything from Apollodorus to T4 Survival, and as far as we can tell the changes feel awesome.

 

Upcoming Changes:

- Each PLS drop is now worth +4 seconds of life support time instead of +6 seconds

- Small reduction to PLS drop rate (around 90% of what it was)

 

We'd love to hear your feedback and will continue to test and tweak if needed.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Whirrrrr

[Renathy]

In all honesty, I never enjoyed Survival missions because they don't promote teamwork. Setting out a camp strategy works for the most part, but it gets dull quite fast, and most players would rather just run about. Every player then spreads into different far-away rooms, never to be seen again.

[Ognj]

So basically we get a PLS nerf, a slight one.

Idk, out of all game modes, survival is the least interesting for me.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Ognj

[Archistopheles]

I do agree that there was too much air. As long as Nekros isn't a requirement, and it's my (and my team's) skill that determines how long I can go, it sounds good to me.

[CruelCrow]

Eh, life support still won't be a problem just because Nekros and Pilfdroid are things, but I don't mind a bit of extra pressure.

 

If anything, it should make it a bit less brain dead.

 

Thanks for the news, always glad to hear about gameplay changes like this!

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

- Small reduction to PLS drop rate (around 90% of what it was)

 

 

 

 

Does that mean that other items will have higher chance to drop instead. Not sure if lifesupport overrides drops or goes as additional.

[S.T.M.P.D]

I think it would be prudent to remove PLS altogether, because even without Nekros, if you get enough kills in one area you no longer need the big pods.

Actually what would be great would be to add another "big" tile onto the three we get now, and to add Survival-exclusive tiles that are scary and tense into the game.

Also, because it's going to be said - y'all really need to take a look at the drop tables.

[-Jiwa-]

An hour+++ soloing t4s with 18 orokin cell rewards aint good for me...

[V45H]

great ill play it even less than i do now :D-b

[Oranji]

Ok back to Nekros.

[--Sokol]

I just want a tower style survival/exterminate mission where you have to clear a floor in order to proceed to next one. It would be endless mission with no side objectives (or maybe some optional ones for fun), nothing to defend and nothing to collect just mass slaughter.

 

Current survival missions are okay I guess up to 40min max then it gets boring. These changes won't make 'em any more interesting.

[Dualstar]

Not sure about reducing the drop rate, theres already too much of a perception that Nekros is is a must-have for survivals...

 

Infact, had an idea;

 

Remove PLS entirely.

 

Instead of restoring a set amount of remaining time, using the LS capsule will simply prevent the mission from failing until the next one arrives.

 

When the next one arrives, players have a certain amount of time to activate it before mission failed.

 

This will require players to move at some point, will end those boring tunnel camps everyone only ever seems to do, and it removes the dependance on loot drops for the mission to continue, and it kills the noob trap of players just using the capsules as soon as they arrive without realising what it actually does.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Dualstar

[StinkyPygmy]

Oh joy, now I get to spend even more time focusing on the air gauge and praying RNG goes my way as opposed to actually killing enemies and waiting till scaling breaks so hard they become a threat.

 

Honestly I've never been a big fan of survival because its TOO focused on the air supply mechanic.

I want that frantic gameplay you mention to actually be a thing, but so much of it is really just playing the waiting game and rolling the dice till you run out of air because RNG is a pain or enemy spawning breaks.

I want to feel like the enemy is actually a threat before scaling breaks and that they can actually end up overwhelming me.

Granted thats not specifically an issue with survival and tweaking it requires work elsewhere, but I feel like survival could do with a serious overhaul to be more then just killing mobs for air drops by adding some other mechanics and objectives.

 

That would at least keep things interesting and make survival actually frantic, as it would be more then just RNG shenanigans and throwing endless waves of enemies at players.

I don't think what is effectively a nerf to the ability to keep LS going is going to help or achieve what you feel it has.

Air is generally only plentiful when people bring a nekros as a fail safe for bad luck (which they do for a reason), or if you get a little bit lucky and have a full 4 man squad that knows enough about manipulating spawn mechanics to reduce the chances of things breaking.

 

As far as I can see survival is already way too focused on the LS mechanic and not enough player skill is involved, nor is there enough to actually keep things engaging and interesting. Its just basically mobile defence with a timer built in.

I don't think this is the way to go.

 

Thats my two cents anyway.

Edited August 25, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[7grims]

So survival was in a good spot, working well, for the first time since it was invented, hope this wont bring it back to the broken state we have seen over and over.

 

But if this breaks camping exploits, I would say this is a A+ good work ;)

[Doothers]

Because I love survival I think I have some changes I would like to see

 

1. Longer pathways for more daka (That's a personal wish (I like cornering myself in survival))

2. A little better scaling (Light enemies are fine. Heavy armored enemies need tweaking in my opinion (Especially the eximus heavy enemies))

3. PLS gives less life support the longer you stay (Max: +6 Min: +4)

4. PLS drops less the longer you stay

5. Life support gained from the Lotus gets a lower spawn rate the longer you stay but gives slightly more life support the longer you stay

6. I can't think of a sixth one

[Doom_Bunny]

Last time DE touched life support drops we were forced to start taking Nekros. Hopefully that won't happen this time.

 

Teamwork:

The only time I've seen people group together (not camping) is when it gets too hard for them. Once their gear starts falling short of killing enemies in a few shots they'll usualy bunch together. Sometime later the enemies start taking a full clip/charged shot to the head then most people leave. At that point you've been running through the same tiles for the last 40 odd minutes with nothing changing, who wouldn't jump ship.

 

Though these times are the best of times, when the players start grouping and the enemies take more then one shot, it's a lot of fun. The problem is that it's becoming increasingly rare to see this in anything other then a t3-t4. Mainly because of abilities and some weapons are being purely designed for late game and nothing else.

 

Spawns:

I do get kick out of forcing people out of their camping hole or away from a spawn area. It's terrible just to watch as people spawn in on a survival mission and instantly go off to find spawns mainly because there is nothing happening in the room we're in. One of the main reasons when I find people at extraction so early is because they were camping just outside the extraction room.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Postal_pat

[MumblesMcphatty]

Not sure about reducing the drop rate, theres already too much of a perception that Nekros is is a must-have for survivals...

 

+10

 

From a solo player's perspective - its so touch & go sometimes. Random drops mean you can get to 15min with 6 Capsules on hand ... or only a deuce. The spawns seem to take forever to get to you - and there simply aren't enough of them to either pose a challenge or keep you air supplied.

 

And for the love of Lotus - if you're going to insist on making it more difficult - there must be reminders about sticking together!!

 

Multiples of them - excessive redundancy - Lotus audio - Ordis warnings - BIG NEON signs ... there should be no reason for anyone getting into arguments with randoms because they're completely convinced being 5 tiles apart doesn't affect the spawns. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

WHY? Survival was the most fun mode before this nerf?  I haven't tried it post nerf, but why are you making this more about micromanaging LS and dealing with RNG than, you know, actually surviving and having fun shooting dudes?

 

WHY NOT JUST HAVE EVERY ENEMY KILLED GIVE YOU BACK A SET PERCENTAGE OF AIR INSTEAD OF HAVING AIR REGULATED BY RNG BS?!

[Dualstar]

WHY? Survival was the most fun mode before this nerf?  I haven't tried it post nerf...

Slow down there mate, this isnt even on PC yet, much less PS4.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Slow down there mate, this isnt even on PC yet, much less PS4.

Yes, and? I even acknowledged that I haven't played it. Just FYI, I have a PC account as well (albeit low MR).

[ShardsSuperior]

I personally enjoyed Survival in this new state. It became the horde mode that it always should have been. Life support was plentiful enough that a glance at the LS meter every few minutes was enough to make sure you didn't lose the mission.

 

On the other hand, the amount of large canisters that stacked up was ridiculous.

Small canisters would be about 60% as efficient as they were before.

Without testing, it would difficult to judge whether this is too much.

 

However, the one part that I'm opposed to is the nerf in drop rate. I hate that feeling when I'm almost out of air, and I keep killing enemies.

Instead, I think it might feel better if we had a 3s extension per small capsule, with a 20% increase in drop chance. It still wouldn't be guaranteed, but it would feel better for the players, as well as achieving the same goal of 60% efficiency.

 

But if you're trying to fix the problem of camping, then this doesn't really work. To do that, the entire gameplay of survival has to be overhauled.

[nickelshark]

You know they say that the first 5 mins of a solo survival runs is the hardest due to spawns and life support or at least that used to be the case. Lets hope this change won't make the first 5 minutes hard for full groups and make Nekros a staple again.

[(PSN)vortex2917]

It would be nice I guess if they through in some objectives for you to do in survivals. Like including capture targets in survival where if you don't capture them a bunch of eximus variants and heavy units would show up.

[ranks21]

just played a survival after this so called changed and the very thing that makes every endless mission sux is the enemy spawning so scanty you have to go searching for them. the question is did it really needed the change?

 

 the enemies just standing in one room even the radar mod couldn't pick them up, theyre just standing there faces to the wall and the rest just looking at their feet.

 

 fix the real issues first then tend to the small stuff with the game.

[Lord.Finster]

What I miss about survival? Thrill.

 

Why do I get more thrill out of a breaking window in a corpus ship than from a whole session of survival?

Simple. The environment doesn't feel threatening. If every player does their job right, I, as a player, never make the experience of getting choked out of a room. Just kill enough enemies and pop enough capsules and everything is just fine.

 

Why do I only get thrilled when the mission has already failed to the point where I have to evacuate? That is simply wrong.

Compare this to hive missions. Combat in the broken segments of the ship, where the atmosphere is being sucked out, is super thrilling.

Im under the constant pressure of my shields being drained and I have visual and audio clues what's going on.

It's atmospheric and I don't get this from survival.

 

Don't get me wrong. Survival does a lot of things right:

I can roam around freely. The enemy is coming at me from all sides. I have to consider something besides fighting.

 

Still, freedom of movement is not purposeful in survival. You can camp or you can stray away or split up from the group.

The only purposeful movement in the mode is to go to a place with good spawns to milk the enemies for their LS.

Meanwhile Lotus is flooding the place with capsules of her own. It's almost comical.

Guess what? Lotus deliverd us 20 capsules but we only used three and then dumped the rest when we left because we could pilfer all we needed from our enemies.

 

The nerf is good and well but it isn't enough.

 

My proposed changes:

1)The whole level is constantly being drained (like in hive missions).

2)Enemies don't drop life support at all.

3)There is only one Lotus capsule active at any given point in time.

4)Every capsule provides 30 seconds of the tile it's in not being drained.

5)Once it is used up Lotus will beam another capsule into the level and the team has to make its way there.

6)The AI will frequently try to lock the team in and block doors in the teams path.

 

This should:

1)Make the teams movement as a unit more purposeful and mission-oriented.

2)Make teams less dependent on Oxyfarm-frames.

3)Create more tension and atmosphere.