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On 5/15/2016 at 8:20 AM, Prinny13 said:

How about this, we have 5 tiers of mission and this mission timer does not go from 0 to infinite but is on countdown! 

  1. Tier 1 = mission from level 1-10 (can go to level 20-30 when we decide to stay for another round).
  2. Tier 2 = mission from level 10-20 (can go to level 30-40 when we decide to stay for another round).
  3. Tier 3 = mission from level 20-30 (can go to level 40-50 when we decide to stay for another round).
  4. Tier 4 = mission from level 30-40 (can go to level 50-60 when we decide to stay for another round).
  5. Tier 5 is T4 exclusive as this mission need to start from level 70 since this is the highest mission in the game, it need to start high, not scale from 20 to 70 in 20 minutes (can go to  level 140-160 when we decide to stay for another round).

Time limitation :

  1. Tier 1 mission will last 10 minutes with the option to get another 5 minutes, most of new players will struggle the moment heavy unties will roll in, so that's a good limit. 
  2. Tier 2 mission will last 20 minutes with the option to get another 15 minutes.
  3. Tier 3 mission will last 30 minutes with the option to get another 25 minutes.
  4. Tier 4 mission will only last 40 minutes with the option to get another 35 minutes.
  5. Tier 5 mission minutes will be between 60-120 minutes and here you also get 2 rewards starting 65 minutes and onward with the option to get another 45 minutes.

You get a chance to extract whenever you want after 5 minutes mark.

We don't have Air to pressure us in here but time, time goes down very quickly and the only way to slow it down is to kill enemies, head shots furthers the slow down of the time by 1.5X.

Your job here is to slow down the time as much as you can until you reach the milestone A.K.A 5 minutes mark for next reward.

So kill enemies to last longer by slowing down the time through death :)

No need to bash my idea, if its bad then its bad, at least i tried something.

 

I like this idea.

But in my opinion I would not do a time limitation but rather make the timer go down faster the further the player is in the mission. And also spawning more enemies. This way players could still be able to do really long runs, but get at some point overwhelmed by the amount of enemies.

I would also introduce a Tier N, which means the player can choose the lvl by him/herself (starting at lvl 70) and then the enemies should scale as they would in T1-5. The level cap would be lvl choosen + 60, but with a max lvl of 300 which the player can choose. With that players which have an more powerful arsenal could take on a new challenge.

Also this would mean that the rewards have to scale with difficulty. When the enemies have reached their max level the rewards shouldn't get better.

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On 8/26/2015 at 5:19 AM, Dualstar said:

Not sure about reducing the drop rate, theres already too much of a perception that Nekros is is a must-have for survivals...

 

Infact, had an idea;

 

Remove PLS entirely.

 

Instead of restoring a set amount of remaining time, using the LS capsule will simply prevent the mission from failing until the next one arrives.

 

When the next one arrives, players have a certain amount of time to activate it before mission failed.

 

This will require players to move at some point, will end those boring tunnel camps everyone only ever seems to do, and it removes the dependance on loot drops for the mission to continue, and it kills the noob trap of players just using the capsules as soon as they arrive without realising what it actually does.

DE, plz make it . this is a best idea 

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On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 6:36 PM, 7grims said:

 

But if this breaks camping exploits, I would say this is a A+ good work ;)

But thats kinda the point of a hoard survile in the frist place. Imh if you think about it your trying to buy time for some one to find items. Why would you go around from one room to another when it would be better to dig in and build defense against the overwelming numbers of the enemy. Your a small tatcle team its better to camp and improve your odds of coming out alive

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On 3/23/2016 at 8:49 AM, Repligon said:

Hack console to call Twin Queens (or whoever else) and say dirty things.

love this turn it around on the bosses lol

 

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On 6/3/2016 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)EnormeMostro said:

DE, plz make it . this is a best idea 

Then I take Loki/Ash/Ivara/Naramon/Arcane Trickery/Valkyr and I can stay in Survival indefinitely, as I no longer have to kill enemies.

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Moving around constantly is a HORRIBLE idea. Enemies in survival spawn at the very least one room away, for smaller rooms their spawn points can be as high as 3 rooms away, especially in the void. Constantly moving around constantly changes these spawn points, and if you were to move into a room that was about to spawn an enemy, it will cancel that spawn entirely, resulting in less enemies, which means less LSP. I HATE when people move from room to room 'looking' for enemies, and I can see a huge group of dozens of enemies trying to chase them 3 rooms away. You'll never find enemies that are 3-4 rooms behind you if you keep running further and further away from them. This is why people camp sticking to 2-3 rooms and moving when necessary which might not be for 20-30 minutes. It also prevents multiple groups of enemies from becoming congested into 1 area 10 rooms away, effectively halting the respawn entirely. When you stick to 1 room, you get more enemies. Survival is about SURVIVING and not EXTERMINATION. If you'd actually pay attention to the Lotus, you'd know she says at the very beginning of the mission, " A lone Tenno operative is raiding this ship for supplies. Your job is to distract the enemy to buy them more time. Ready? Trigger the alarms." The reason enemies need to spawn in a certain area away from your squad is so that they don't spawn directly on top of you and your squad. Imagine your squad is kicking serious corrupted butt, and then 6 nullifiers and 8 bombards and 12 ancients (all level 257) spawn exactly where your squad is...... Even suggesting to build survival to prevent camping could cause this scenario, even if you were running from room to room. Survival ISN'T broken, and players like you need to stop trying to re-invent the wheel. 

Edited by giglyfoot
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How about Nerf PLS drop rate to 1 second but in exchange... GIVE REASONABLE DROP RATES.  Make it hard and actually challenging to make it to 20 minutes, but if we do, reward appropriately.

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I feel like this kind of tweaking to Survival will be a huge problem especially to the newer players coming in. While it does make a few happy campers have to work for their LS. The rate of getting life support is already difficult for Solo players running in long sessions, at least in my experience; and I run around a whole bunch like a chicken being chased by the next boxer listening to the Eye of the Tiger. Nerfing LS will just dishearten newer players and limit the game mode to the more veteran players. I think it would even deter veteran players. The biggest issue is the enemy scaling in survival and that has to be addressed. Why not do something like adding a mini boss, like some players have to deal with every 5 mins? If you are going to keep the scaling of enemies, remove life support all together. And to prevent unfair play of Tenno hiding, add some Hellions and make all enemies constantly aware of the Tenno's location. It would make sense as the Neural Sentry should be able to detect you anywhere in the Tower, right? Then without life support, you can also increase the spawn rate of enemies, giving this overwhelming feeling the longer you fight.

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I'm not too fond of this as a solo survival player that doesn't use necros or other frames to cheat the capsule drop rate.

While it's true you can usually stockpile the bigger lotus capsules if you're fast at killing stuff in the current iteration, that's also part of the appeal of the game mode imho... You're strategically stocking up on big life support capsules, trying to use them as little as possible so they will be avialable when you really need them (when the enemy scaling gets ridiculous and your kill speed crawls to a halt).

Having less portable life support capsules and having each of them less efficient means you'll be constantly pressured to get something that drops randomly from enemies... This makes your team more vulnerable to a enemy drough where noone spawns for a while , or unlucky streaks when no air canisters drop, and it Imho discourages moving around the map, as moving usually screws spawns for a while you get way less enemies than by simply going back and forth in a region of the map with a good spawn rate.

At the very least , if you nerf capsule drops from enemies, increase the percentage or the spawn rate of lotus capsules...

The suggestion to remove droppable capsules doesn't make any sense to me. The whole concept of survival is that you're forced to fight enemies as fast as possible to acquire the air their drop, and occasionally use a big capsule when the oxygen levels get too low... Removing drops from enemies would make it a booring mode where you go invisible and move around the map to reach capsules as fast as possible, avoiding all enemies.. No fun....

Personally, my main gripe with survival in it's current form are the following ...

1 - Level scaling is atrocious, even in T4. You spend the first ten minutes hunting for urns with your sonicor because the enemy spawn rate is too low to generate enough life support, and said enemies pose no challenge at all. From 10 to 25 minutes it's the easy part where nothing is really a threat and you start stockpiling life support towers, then once you get close to 35-40 minutes, you hit warframe's terrible scaling wall where you start to get oneshotted and killing enemies become long and tedious. The 40-60 minute mark becomes an exercice in not getting oneshotted while you use cheese tactics to kill enemies fast enough to generate portable life support capsules, then you get to a point where enemies hit so hard you might not even be able to get back to extraction alive unless you have an invisible frame. Logically, a T4 mission should start with an ample amount of strong but not overpowered enemies, and continue to scale upward in a realistic curve where, even after an hour, most enemies do not one shot you and you can deal damage to them without 4X corrosive projection and a gazillion cheeze tactics.

I wish T4 misisons would start with higher level , more challenging enemies from the get go... And that enemy scaling was more progressive, with less instakill bombad missiles and other cheap shot.

 

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2015 at 0:19 AM, Dualstar said:

Not sure about reducing the drop rate, theres already too much of a perception that Nekros is is a must-have for survivals...

 

Infact, had an idea;

 

Remove PLS entirely.

 

Instead of restoring a set amount of remaining time, using the LS capsule will simply prevent the mission from failing until the next one arrives.

 

When the next one arrives, players have a certain amount of time to activate it before mission failed.

 

This will require players to move at some point, will end those boring tunnel camps everyone only ever seems to do, and it removes the dependance on loot drops for the mission to continue, and it kills the noob trap of players just using the capsules as soon as they arrive without realising what it actually does.

This is the best idea ever.  Absolutely amazing.  I already enjoy survival.  This would almost make me live in survival.

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8 hours ago, (XB1)DTMH said:

This is the best idea ever.  Absolutely amazing.  I already enjoy survival.  This would almost make me live in survival.

Only that's the easiest thing to cheese. No more need to fight enemies, just chill and activate life support while invisible or invincible.

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17 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Removing drops from enemies would make it a booring mode where you go invisible and move around the map to reach capsules as fast as possible, avoiding all enemies.. No fun....

Just give the enemy some counterplay. While this will bring in the issue of perma-CC, DE is already working on trying to fix that. When/if that's ever fixed, Survival will be in a good place.

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10 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Only that's the easiest thing to cheese. No more need to fight enemies, just chill and activate life support while invisible or invincible.

Valid point.  As a Loki main, I full acknowledge that as a viable approach.  Then maybe an adjustment - life support only shows up once a certain number/percentage of damage dealt, or enemies killed is met?  Which would scale down as enemies scale up - otherwise you'd never make it passed a single rotation. Maybe that's a terrible idea... scratch that. 

 

 

 

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Almost a year later and survival is still one of the most mind numbing things in the game.

Edited by TheTundraTerror

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Why not start with a low chance/effective ness of PLS and it should increase along with the scaling of enemies? That probably makes the most sense as they become harder to kill the longer we stay

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if they want to stop camping, perhaps they need to make it so enemies home in on your location, this creates a difficulty ramp up if you stay in one room too long, the enemies numbers just keep growing and growing and you will also be attacked by more eximus, nullies ancients and Heavies, DE might also want to make a Grineer version of a nullifier, it would stop you from using your abilities but in another way, increased nullifier and Parasitic eximus spawns may prevent Cheese abilities from making this mechanic a bonus rather than minus, so if you stay in one spot it will be harder to stay alive. as you move from room to room enemies lose their homing on you, you see fewer spawns and easier ones, if you go far enough you may spot unalerted enemies if you get a stealth kill they will automatically drop LS. 

also any further reponders should notice that this thread is a year old.

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On 6/17/2016 at 0:29 PM, RavingRoman said:

Why not start with a low chance/effective ness of PLS and it should increase along with the scaling of enemies? That probably makes the most sense as they become harder to kill the longer we stay

if the Chance increases with Enemy Level, that counteracts the intention for Players to have to inevitably end the Mission eventually because they cannot Kill Enemies in a timely manner.

1 hour ago, GOLANX said:

if they want to stop camping, perhaps they need to make it so enemies home in on your location, this creates a difficulty ramp up if you stay in one room too long, the enemies numbers just keep growing and growing and you will also be attacked by more eximus, nullies ancients and Heavies

that translates to rewarding Players for AFKFarming.

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5 hours ago, GOLANX said:

as you move from room to room enemies lose their homing on you, you see fewer spawns and easier ones

This is punishing players for moving around, the exact opposite of your stated goal. If anything, it'd make sense for the enemies to chill out in rooms adjacent to the current one, only attacking occasionally in discrete groups with at least one heavy. This would reward players for moving around, but it would be hard to properly populate all rooms.

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4 hours ago, taiiat said:

if the Chance increases with Enemy Level, that counteracts the intention for Players to have to inevitably end the Mission eventually because they cannot Kill Enemies in a timely manner.

It gives them the option to be able to stay. Remember, there will come a point where we cannot kill them at all in a timely manner or they just eventually keep one-shotting us. Depending how much the life support scales with their level, this is indeed the most fair way to tweak survival. Players with more skill will be rewarded without the mechanical limitations of unfair life support carry, and players who learn they are dying too quickly will be motivated to leave.

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6 hours ago, RavingRoman said:

It gives them the option to be able to stay.

it increases how long anybody can stay, without there being a purpose to doing so.

it either does almost nothing and stays basically currently as is (waste of an Employees' time), or it simply lets anybody play long Survival Missions just because.
Survival already forces you to leave if you cannot Kill Enemies in a timely manner, and what you suggest does not reward Skill because it lets anybody play a longer Mission outright.

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10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it increases how long anybody can stay, without there being a purpose to doing so.

it either does almost nothing and stays basically currently as is (waste of an Employees' time), or it simply lets anybody play long Survival Missions just because.
Survival already forces you to leave if you cannot Kill Enemies in a timely manner, and what you suggest does not reward Skill because it lets anybody play a longer Mission outright.

Why doesn't it reward skill? You're not exactly making any sense. The point of survival is to stay for as long as you are able or skilled enough to keep going. Your idea of balancing just isn't smart because it turns off newer players and keeps them from continuing on with the game mode without even seeing that staying longer gives more reward. Survival is a risk-reward system, you need to understand the basics of the mode that applies to every video game in existence. It should depend on your abilities which should not be hindered, only challenged. Enemies are getting hard to kill, the only way to be able to stay longer is if you get your kill's worth. It's basic. Increasing effectivity of the PLS would allow players to stay longer if they wished and not waste their keys.

 

Waste of Employee's time? If you're playing at work, that is your own fault. You have to set aside time to do these things.

Without a purpose? Hello? You're getting rewards every 5 minutes. Not satisfied or bored with you 60 minute runs? Leave it alone and let the newer guys (Additions to warframe's potential market) have their chance

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16 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

This is punishing players for moving around, the exact opposite of your stated goal. If anything, it'd make sense for the enemies to chill out in rooms adjacent to the current one, only attacking occasionally in discrete groups with at least one heavy. This would reward players for moving around, but it would be hard to properly populate all rooms.

my intention however is opposite, If the Player stayed in a single room he would find enemies in numbers roughly 3 times the number you would normally see in survival, with many more Nullifiers and eximus, staying in that room would cause difficulty to scale dramatically and you would go from worrying about your air supply to worrying about staying alive, high numbers of nullifiers and ancients would cut down on ability spam, so invis Lokis, hysteria Valkyrs would have a hard time staying invincible.  the only major problem with my idea is that with a Tonkor you could cut down enemy numbers with just as much ease as you do using the tonkor to kill single target (and exceeding Sniper rifle damage in single target) but this isnt a tonkor thread.

futhermore LS would drop less often from enemies that are homing in on you, while your rewards would increase for killing single targets.

TLDR; staying in a single spot will cause difficulty to raise exceptionally through overwhelming the player and negating his abilities while simultaneously causing enemies to drop less LS, moving around would cause the difficulty to ease while LS drop chance would improve.

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43 minutes ago, GOLANX said:

my intention however is opposite, If the Player stayed in a single room he would find enemies in numbers roughly 3 times the number you would normally see in survival, with many more Nullifiers and eximus, staying in that room would cause difficulty to scale dramatically and you would go from worrying about your air supply to worrying about staying alive

futhermore LS would drop less often from enemies that are homing in on you, while your rewards would increase for killing single targets.

the only difficulty increase you have there is lowering the rate of Life Support Drops. if not for that, i would just be repeating that you're incentivizing and rewarding Players to play abusively.

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On 6/24/2016 at 5:57 PM, GOLANX said:

the only major problem

Good sir, have your heard of Naramon? Blood Rush, Body Count, and Shadow Step.

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Would love to see some positive changes to survival missions, they tend to get boring from time to time... but is there any change to improve survival drop rewards. T1 keys, orokin cells, and credits. These items are not helpful to veteran players. Most have hundreds of t1 keys, hundreds or if not thousands of orokin cells & millions of credits. Now I understand that each difficulty had different rewards. But these drops are just not cutting it! Maybe more cores, prime parts, 3 pack of void keys?! It's like running the sorties & busting your butt to get a lense or nezha part.

ODS is the least played survival due to the crappy rewards. You guys have improved on the rewards recently, but it still needs some tweeks.. 

Edited by (XB1)Slave3121
Misspelling and other grammatical errors
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