Survival Balancing

[--Sokol]

I dunno buddy, the mission is named survival, take a guess.

While that is true without certain objective it would be 'exploitable'. There needs to be a mechanic that prevents afking, glitching or simply going to places where mobs can't reach you. Otherwise you could stay 60 min in this survival game mode, get rewards and not worry about a thing.

 

Having something as simple as LFS capsule that you have to activate in certain period of time or you lose oxygen and die would be good enough (as others have made suggestions).

[Folren]

Those changes are really bad for alredy existing tiles. Let me explain why:
1) Solo-survival: Previously I had to bring warframe with some good offensive abilitities and go find one of those few big survival rooms and check their neighboor rooms. If the room was good enough I just stood at that room and done fine.
Problem: small choice of warframes. Fixed? No. I can bring there even less diferent warframes. 
Problem: small choice of rooms. Fixed? No. If I want to go solo now, I'll just go check if there is one of the best survival rooms. Even less choice.
2) Team survival (2 players): 
Before the fix:
-"Man, what frame should I bring there?"
-"Anything you like, bro"
After the fix:
-"Budd, what should I bring there?"
-"Ok, this time you can bring whatever you want and I'll bring Necros, but next time it will be your turn to be Desecrate-machine"
Do you like to force players to limit their choice? No. I guess no. You said that.
Limited choice of rooms saved.
3) Team survival (4 players):
The same thing again: more limited choice of rooms. If we'll still have any problems with the oxygen, we'll just go check for another better room or trade buff frame for speed Nova or something like that. There you go, limited choice again.

In conclusion I'd like to say that the point of those changes aren't that bad. More running around seems more logical for the space ninjas compared to standing in one place and shooting at one point. But if you really want players to do so, why don't you just create some new node with those oxygen conditions? Players want a place to show off their shiny stuff, maxed mods and polished skills. For example, new endgame survival node available for 3 days once in a month. If you add there requisition to bring only chosen warframes and some other things to make that place even more uncomfortable, that node will be hot topic each month (that requisition changes every month and the list of available warframes for those 3 days officially stated a week before opening of that node). Some cool tradeable rewards or (and) cosmetic rewards will make sure lots of different players will come there. Limited choice there will be good. Limited choice in our favorite missions is bad.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Folren

[--MZez--]

Survival is the funniest game mode for me, whatever they do i always gonna enjoy survival daugh

[Stormblossom]

The changes are a good concept, but went too far. The timer seems to be actively winding down faster, and PLS just does not stack up. Especially when soloing, some frames can not easily guarantee opening a can ASAP. On frostP I made it to 19:39 on my first post- patch run. Switched to Hydroid with Pilfering and passed 20 mins my next attempt due to more air drops. Next run I ran out around 19 and change on Hydroid due to no drops even with pilfer. That combined with repeated T2 key rewards on turn C in Derelict today has me very grumpy. Please tweak things back the other way a bit.

[Egg_Chen]

Have never understood the LS mechanic.

If I am alive and killing enemies, I am creating a distraction, why is the LS mechanic even needed?

While I appreciate the response from Rebecca it currently does not change the fact that my favourite gamemode has been neutered.

I should not have to choose Nekros to go further than 20 mins in Tower survival!

[Fusen]

Firstly, sarcastic bashing among each other and DE is out of place. It is harmful to all levels of discussion that I can see. 

 

Secondly, I went Solo vs 2 Person testing relatively casually (T3 Void + ODS), and there is certainly credence in the 'Solo being way harder' claims (at least in my limited experience this evening). 2 Person T3 Void Survival did not leave us starving for O2 in the slightest. Our lack of Corrosive Projections and 'end game loadouts' on my end was our real weakspot and reason for departure.

.

ODS Solo on the other hand is a different story - thirsty Nyx Prime was thirsty. 

 

Lastly, this isn't the end of these changes. Please observe directly in the OP that 'We'd love to hear your feedback and will continue to test and tweak if needed.' Rest assured Survival is a passionate topic inside and outside DE walls. 

You should consider doing 2 hr + runs instead of the casual 20 - 40 minute runs ... and seriously Nyx vs. Infested ?

[smithf]

Need for new mods:

 

- Hold Breadth - allows a longer window after your Life Support runs out before mission ends. You can continue if you can find another LS before window ends. Then length of the window you can continue the mission within Life Support is increased with mod Rank!

 

- Reduced Metabolism - As long as you don't move, you will use less Life Support. Good for tiding over those low activity periods where there isn't even a fly around. The rate of Life Support usage reduced is increased with Mod Rank. At highest Rank, you can enter a mediative state that uses only 5% of Life Support of what you would normally use when actively moving!!!

 

- Bio-recycling - We cannot produce matter. But we can recycle whatever that your body already rejects anyway. This results in lowered rate of using the your supply of Life Support!!  The rate of LS usage is reduced as mod Rank is increased. a Must-Have for all new survival missions! Works best if you don't visit the washrooms before you starts the mission.

 

- Hurry Lotus - Runs an automated script that bugs Lotus to hasten the sending of the next Life Support in case she dozes off. May have no effects if she is already working hard, but hey, you won't know. Regularly every specific period, there will be a chance that the time you have to wait for the next Lotus Delivery is reduced slightly. The length of the period in between checks and the amount of delivery time reduced is improved by ranking up the Mod.

 

- Black Market - Hard to get Life Support the legal way? Call our Black Market Service. When this mod is installed, after a period of time has expired, a random console will become active for special hacking, which will place an intergalatical delivery order of standard Terran Life Support. Using the latest in phase-matter teleportation technology, your order will be delivered to the nearest appropriate location in your immediate vicinity within 10 seconds. Of course, we would have to charge a 'small' fee. Ranking this mod up will reduce the time you need to wait in between orders, and the cost in credits we charge for each order. Why play to win when you can PAY to win?

 

j/k. really. ;)

Edited August 27, 2015 by smithf

[Odik]

How to make game even worse? Nerf fun out of the game .(or some1 enjoy spam 3 on necros ?)

P.S - we need black market NAW (to get weapons from the past) :D

[Elenortirie]

You should consider doing 2 hr + runs instead of the casual 20 - 40 minute runs ... and seriously Nyx vs. Infested ?

corrupted bro in void they are corrupted

[FelisImpurrator]

If anyone from DE reads this thanks for reading and considering the feedback! 

I'm pretty sure they'll read it... just hoping the good ideas won't get drowned by the salty players and their probably a page's worth of useless complaints by now.

corrupted bro in void they are corrupted

Apparently Rebecca's solo Nyx Prime run was ODS, so yeah, Infested. That said, with enough gun, that really shouldn't affect your ability to go to at least 20... except for the sheer lack of air.

Edited August 27, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[low1991]

Less RNG-based game modes more Player-based progression pls.

[Z1B1]

So did 40 minutes of survival in void with a friend with and without necros and have to say, to compensate the lower PLS spawn rate we now need A.more enemies to spawn or B.increase drop rate a little bit but dont negate the update totaly or C.get necros because he has a job again

[djdnqn]

I would add something to this whole survival, the weapons also escalate in level while his enemies level rise due to the fall of that life support, lack of deaths that generate O2 said support; since weapons are useless in a minute against the enemy, because you have more forms and the status indicated for these enemies.

Then you would add the tenno would raise their statistics in terms of life and shield, it is assumed that the level of challenge increases, therefore we must also raise life in armor and shield to be according to the situation.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

So the reason for these changes to survivals is to make the overhaul fighting, and struggle to survive more intense? But on the contrary, it hasn't really worked, and heres why...

Survival in nature is already somewhat a tedious mission type, heavily reliant on RNG in every aspect. Say I get to 20min or 40 in a survival and don't want the part I want, which is more likely then not, has my run been anymore fun or engaging after these improvements? No.

Because what you've simply done is compound the already tedious process of farming for a rare part, and making it even more infuriating doing so. I don't want to feel as if I have to jump through more hoops just to get lumbered with a Forma bp at 20min, or 40. It's fruitless and unrewarding. Nobody wants to play in a endless mode where the challange is greater, but the reward is still little.

Balancing this for solo players is improtant and needs to be done too. I've got no real issues with a more taxing survival, in fact I'd relish it. But you need to adress the underline issues here before making it more difficult. High risk, fine. But give a greater chance at rewards...

[Grulos]

Firstly, sarcastic bashing among each other and DE is out of place. It is harmful to all levels of discussion that I can see. 

 

Secondly, I went Solo vs 2 Person testing relatively casually (T3 Void + ODS), and there is certainly credence in the 'Solo being way harder' claims (at least in my limited experience this evening). 2 Person T3 Void Survival did not leave us starving for O2 in the slightest. Our lack of Corrosive Projections and 'end game loadouts' on my end was our real weakspot and reason for departure.

.

ODS Solo on the other hand is a different story - thirsty Nyx Prime was thirsty. 

 

Lastly, this isn't the end of these changes. Please observe directly in the OP that 'We'd love to hear your feedback and will continue to test and tweak if needed.' Rest assured Survival is a passionate topic inside and outside DE walls. 

So Survival is broken by design, so it requires a specific loadout and such? I think I'm leaving afrer all this crap you did to Warframe, DE.

[Jinryusai]

Firstly, sarcastic bashing among each other and DE is out of place. It is harmful to all levels of discussion that I can see. 

 

Secondly, I went Solo vs 2 Person testing relatively casually (T3 Void + ODS), and there is certainly credence in the 'Solo being way harder' claims (at least in my limited experience this evening). 2 Person T3 Void Survival did not leave us starving for O2 in the slightest. Our lack of Corrosive Projections and 'end game loadouts' on my end was our real weakspot and reason for departure.

.

ODS Solo on the other hand is a different story - thirsty Nyx Prime was thirsty. 

 

Lastly, this isn't the end of these changes. Please observe directly in the OP that 'We'd love to hear your feedback and will continue to test and tweak if needed.' Rest assured Survival is a passionate topic inside and outside DE walls. 

What a shame

Edited August 27, 2015 by Jinryusai

[RAZORLIGHT]

Survival Solo is a nightmare with those changes

[p3z1]

My take on this change:

 

This one is bad TBH. Almost everyone here knows that RNG is not a reliable thing to bet on. Reducing PLS drops to ~90% is not a good idea, since it is subject to RNG still. Imagine some players still getting PLS every ~8 kills, while other players are lucky to get one drop per ~35 enemies. Also reducing how much it gives, all the more bad. Currently and before, survival is basically the most RNG-dependent game mode (enemies drop PLS, rewards).

 

Suggestion (if allowed, otherwise delete this part):

 

Remove PLS drops entirely. Now give all enemy units a "backpack of LS". Now every time an enemy dies, his backpack detonates a second later, giving +1 second to survival time. If unit is killed with punch-through weapons and it hits his backpack via punch-through, it adds +2 seconds. Popping the backpack while the unit is alive gives +8 seconds within 2 seconds and drains enemy health by ~1% of max hp every second till unit dies. Headshots deal bonus damage (10% of current enemy HP, since probably shooting breathing goggles or something similar) and gives +4 seconds when headshot is the killing blow. Enemies killed by powers only give +0.5 seconds, but detonates immediately.

 

Edit: this removes the need/dependence for nekros' desecrate, hydroid's pilfering swarm, and the need of PLS when low and bad on RNG

 

Numbers tentative

Edited August 27, 2015 by p3z1

[VCaptiion]

IMO this game is getting sick, everythings are hard, grind reinforced and fanboys are blind enough to see the problem. In fact i don't care if moderator lock this thread or not, DE refused to communicate and this forum utterly useless now. Finally i realized what defines an "update" when DE has no new content. Hype thread? More like NERF thread.

Edited August 27, 2015 by VCaptiion

[ss4chris]

Firstly, sarcastic bashing among each other and DE is out of place. It is harmful to all levels of discussion that I can see. 

 

Secondly, I went Solo vs 2 Person testing relatively casually (T3 Void + ODS), and there is certainly credence in the 'Solo being way harder' claims (at least in my limited experience this evening). 2 Person T3 Void Survival did not leave us starving for O2 in the slightest. Our lack of Corrosive Projections and 'end game loadouts' on my end was our real weakspot and reason for departure.

.

ODS Solo on the other hand is a different story - thirsty Nyx Prime was thirsty. 

 

Lastly, this isn't the end of these changes. Please observe directly in the OP that 'We'd love to hear your feedback and will continue to test and tweak if needed.' Rest assured Survival is a passionate topic inside and outside DE walls. 

Oh man  Lotus went Ham on the lowly Peasant tenno :P

[DesoPL]

I agree about idea for adding an mini bosses in certain areas in surv void. At least this would reduce at some points RNG.

 

I for allmost year, farm and farm Nova Prime, and no results for long time. Most i got crap stuff like orokin cells, formas etc.

[low1991]

The statement regarding this current year as 'Year of Quality' is gonna run out in about 3~4 months time.

[MumblesMcphatty]

Honestly I think these changes would be fine for solo players if the spawns were just ramped up a notch. Ok - a big notch!

The only problem with that is obviously comparing the experience of a veteran (Max Serration, Redirection etc) to a newer player who does not have those things.

In which case - rather than futzing with LS figures - Survival needs to take the player's capabilities into account.

Don't bosses have a similar mechanic? Where their level is ramped up depending on # of players & conclave rating?

Please note - I totally understand DE wanting to make 40 mins much more difficult to reach. From their point of view it's understandable they don't want us grinding out multiple C rewards too easily. All this I'm fine with - but I would actually like to still enjoy reaching 20mins ... Instead of wondering whether or not the dice will let me.

[(PSN)SancticuS]

The statement regarding this current year as 'Year of Quality' is gonna run out in about 3~4 months time.

 

Well it is a "year of quality" when it comes to increasing the grind and RNG. So maybe that was what DE was refering to

[Grulos]

The statement regarding this current year as 'Year of Quality' is gonna run out in about 3~4 months time.

It never started. "Year of Quality" was a joke, nothing of quality was shown, only nerfs and questionable changes.