Should Punchthrough Work On Nullifiers' Bubbles?

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

As someone who has gone hours on t4 survival, by binding my one ability to the right anolog stick and playing with my foot, I think the nullifiers were a great addition. Especially now that the Lanka has been toned down from "what just killed me?" To "a nully just took half my health find cover and kill that fool!"

To the point: The rate of fire mechanic of the shield, coupled with how slow our weapons swap is, means you pretty much have to main a weapon with a high ROF. This kills what is one of the greatest qualities Warframe has to offer, customization.

TL;DR:What I'm proposing is allowing punchthrough to work on the nully bubbles. I'm sure there are downsides I'm missing which is why the title is a question and not a statement.

Edit: I think this is the best suggestion I've seen.

i`d really love to have them like disruptor drones, 0 offense, high defense and all it does is nullify doesn`t protect form gun fire

Edited August 26, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[Impact6]

I get your point, but i believe letting punch through solve the problem is not a good solution. Let snipers take that role instead.

[Bizzaro21]

totally, these bi*ches are just flat-out untouchable unless u take bubble out or melee them getting nullified in the process

punch through will give charge weapons an edge on them, as right now their only use is charge and slide in bubble killing`em, and still getting nullified, or just start a staring contest you`ll never win and holster to a rapid fire pistol to take bubble out

I get your point, but i believe letting punch through solve the problem is not a good solution. Let snipers take that role instead.

this as well would be great

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I get your point, but i believe letting punch through solve the problem is not a good solution. Let snipers take that role instead.

I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but I thought about making any weapon that uses sniper ammo take nully bubbles down if a way that makes them viable. I left it out because I can see it being a coding nightmare.

[The_Raall]

just make it possible to punch through those shields but all bullets that go through them will do less dmg

[Kthal]

Here's a thought...

 

Since Nullifier bubbles take a maximum of 400 damage per round, why not make any damage over a certain arbitrary value, I would say 1200, be able to punch through minus that 1200 damage. That way, slow, heavy hitting weapons are effective against Nullifiers by punching through, and automatic weapons are effective against Nullifiers by depleting the shields.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Here's a thought...

Since Nullifier bubbles take a maximum of 400 damage per round, why not make any damage over a certain arbitrary value, I would say 1200, be able to punch through minus that 1200 damage. That way, slow, heavy hitting weapons are effective against Nullifiers by punching through, and automatic weapons are effective against Nullifiers by depleting the shields.

I thought about that, but I can mod a boltor prime to do more damage per shot that a poorly modded vectis/latron/dread so I can see that being messy. Edited August 26, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[Dillon_J]

meh then i'd feel obligated to put on punch-through....just like i am currently obligated to bring a high fire-rate weapon............................

[Kthal]

I thought about that, but I can mod a boltor prime to do more damage per shot that a poorly modded vectis/later on/dread so I can see that being messy.

 

The Vectis has a base damage of 225, and the Boltor Prime has a base damage of 55. If you mod the Vectis so badly that it has a lower damage/shot than a Boltor Prime, you deserve to get wiped by a Nullifier.

 

Breaking numbers down, assuming a damage reduction of 1,200/shot on Nullifier bubbles:

10 Boltor Prime rounds with 1,500 (arbitrary value) damage/round will punch 3,000 damage through the Nullifier bubble.

1 Vectis round with 6,000 (arbitrary value) damage will punch 4,800 damage through the Nullifier bubble.

 

The numbers could be tweaked, but the principle is fairly sound.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

The Vectis has a base damage of 225, and the Boltor Prime has a base damage of 55. If you mod the Vectis so badly that it has a lower damage/shot than a Boltor Prime, you deserve to get wiped by a Nullifier.

 

Breaking numbers down, assuming a damage reduction of 1,200/shot on Nullifier bubbles:

10 Boltor Prime rounds with 1,500 (arbitrary value) damage/round will punch 3,000 damage through the Nullifier bubble.

1 Vectis round with 6,000 (arbitrary value) damage will punch 4,800 damage through the Nullifier bubble.

 

The numbers could be tweaked, but the principle is fairly sound.

You're right, I forgot for a moment that we're talking about t3 and t4.

Edited August 26, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Here's a thought...

 

Since Nullifier bubbles take a maximum of 400 damage per round, why not make any damage over a certain arbitrary value, I would say 1200, be able to punch through minus that 1200 damage. That way, slow, heavy hitting weapons are effective against Nullifiers by punching through, and automatic weapons are effective against Nullifiers by depleting the shields.

Essentially Shield Gates.  Yes.  Good solution.  

 

[NickBoay]

i think nullies should be easier to kill with weapons, for example 1 bow shot should do the job , or a sniper bullet , instead we have low firerate on those weapons and the bubble only shrinks a bit, i think the bubble should shrink to the ammount of dmg they receive , not per shot...

[arsyadpower]

Kulstar and Concealed Explosive already solve this nully problem

[Bizzaro21]

i`d really love to have them like disruptor drones, 0 offense, high defense and all it does is nullify doesn`t protect form gun fire

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

i`d really love to have them like disruptor drones, 0 offense, high defense and all it does is nullify doesn`t protect form gun fire

Forget all the noise I made ^^ this is what I would like to see.

[Feallike]

This wouldn't work well in a balance. I think Nully bubbles should have a damage cap, but also a threshold. (5000+ damage in one tick would have them instantly pop)

[Fifield]

TL;DR:What I'm proposing is allowing punchthrough to work on the nully bubbles. I'm sure there are downsides I'm missing which is why the title is a question and not a statement.

 

Just no.

Downside is making nullifiers irrelevant, making game even more stupidly easy.

 

Punchthrough shouldn't even work on shield grineer.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Fifield

[croxeye]

i`d really love to have them like disruptor drones, 0 offense, high defense and all it does is nullify doesn`t protect form gun fire

this, anybody who's played a NM raid has encountered these and they can disable you quick if you aren't on top of them, but you can shoot through their field and damage them directly.

 

Nullifiers should have been designed like that in the first place.

[shut]

Just no.

Downside is making nullifiers irrelevant, making game even more stupidly easy.

 

Punchthrough shouldn't even work on shield grineer.

 

Agreed.

Do people not see the issue with letting weapons with punchthrough (i.e. literally everything if you sacrifice a mod slot) act as if nullifier bubbles aren't there? You might as well just remove bullet blocking from the bubbles entirely.

Not that I'm completely against that, but if bullets ignoring nully bubbles needs to be a thing, then make it a thing without requiring that players shoehorn themselves into specific weapon builds.

 

 

Some changes that I'd prefer:

 

- When using a hitscan weapon, Nullifier bubbles are damaged by each individual bullet rather than the total damage of the shot. (This brings hitscan weapons in line with projectile weapons for bubble-popping, since more instances of 400 damage are being dealt at once. Shotgun users rejoice.)

- Nullifier bubbles will have visible weak spots that don't have a damage cap when hit. The bubble's maximum shrink speed when the weak spot is hit is identical to the usual maximum shrink speed. (The weak spots give "one hit wonder" weapons like the opticor a way to properly combat Nullifiers, while not offering a significant advantage to fast weapons that can cap the shrink speed anyways.)

Edited August 26, 2015 by SortaRandom

[croxeye]

- Nullifier bubbles will have visible weak spots that don't have a damage cap when hit. The bubble's maximum shrink speed when the weak spot is hit is identical to the usual maximum shrink speed. (The weak spots give "one hit wonder" weapons like the opticor a way to properly combat Nullifiers, while not offering a significant advantage to fast weapons that can cap the shrink speed anyways.)

this idea is kind of cool, though I think if it has a weak point, a bubble should 'pop' instead and cause damage to enemies in/surrounding it, it'd be a nice effect that would reward good aim/play.

[shut]

this idea is kind of cool, though I think if it has a weak point, a bubble should 'pop' instead and cause damage to enemies in/surrounding it, it'd be a nice effect that would reward good aim/play.

 

I thought about the instant popping at first, but I figured that it would still give rapid-fire weapons an edge over bows and snipers and such.

 

If a rapid-fire weapon insta-pops the bubble, then the player can just go straight to shooting the nullifier. One-hit-wonder weapons, though, would still have to spend a certain amount of time readying the next shot after insta-popping, which means that not only can they not get to killing the nullifier right away, but they're at risk of having the bubble recover if they don't land a hit fast enough. Letting the bubble keep the current delayed-popping greatly lessens this issue.

 

 

We could always have it so that the weak spots are only accessible to one-hit-wonder weapons, but then there's the issue of defining what a one-hit-wonder weapon is in the first place. There would be issues regarding the "kinda in between"-type weapons such as the Marelok.

Edited August 26, 2015 by SortaRandom