BhruicDearg Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Decided to check out how much it changed things... I'll agree that a slight nerf was needed, but this has gone too far. Previously doing a T3 survival solo I could hit 40 mins and still have 3+ pods left. It was only that few because kill time had gone down so I wasn't getting as many drops. Tried it post-patch, couldn't even get to 30 mins without running out of time. Not sure why DE seems to hate solo players so much. Things always seem to be purely balanced around group play, kicking solo players to the curb. Leaving a survival mission should be because you can't kill things fast enough to get drops, not because drops don't give enough to get by on. Group play giving more enemies and faster killing time, it's considerably easier to get by. DE, if you want to lower the drop rate, that's fine, as I said it was probably a bit high. But changing it from 6 seconds to 4 seconds was too extreme to have gone with that change. Revert it to 6 seconds. Or increase the drop rate for solo play. Both is overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--collstro-- Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It's just as bad for group play. It seems DE wants to make Nekros a mandatory frame for survival again. Having the freedom to choose any 4 frames you wanted without having to rely on a desecrate spam Nekros to go past the point where "Time To Kill" increases. Which can vary depending on frame and weapon composition. If you're trying to level weak weapons in T1S; which used to be enjoyable solo, that time could be as low as under 10 minutes. And the spawn system isn't such that there are always enemies on the map, so if there's any lull in spawns,then you SOL. The oxygen rate without Nekros was fine before adding oxygen to containers and lockers. I see no reason to resort to such drastic and punitive measures when the simplest and easiest fix for excessive oxygen would be to remove oxygen from lockers and containers, instead of the action you took, which just forces Nekros to be a mandatory frame in any Survival mission once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyPip Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I agree, solo players are the ones suffering the most from this nerf since before you could at least keep the % steady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 didn`t try yet, but if it`s as you describe, I`ll be done with survival for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Copypasta your feedback here, too https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/517745-survival-balancing/ I was afraid this would happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsusane Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I would like to thank DE for ruining the last bit of fun that I still had with this game. Destroy solo players completely will ya? And also for group play you have to run frigging nekros again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealgaire Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Kind of sounds like you're saying it was really easy before and now it's not. That's my experience with the changes at least, and I'm liking it. Survival used to be pretty frantic with life support getting low frequently until a capsule came in and saved you just in time. I miss that and I hope they can get back to it. Nowadays it's rare to see life support drop below 90%, and that's without even using any capsules or having Nekros desecrate for more LS drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhruicDearg Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Kind of sounds like you're saying it was really easy before and now it's not. That's my experience with the changes at least, and I'm liking it. Survival used to be pretty frantic with life support getting low frequently until a capsule came in and saved you just in time. I miss that and I hope they can get back to it. Nowadays it's rare to see life support drop below 90%, and that's without even using any capsules or having Nekros desecrate for more LS drops. In my mind survival should be somewhere between running out of time while hoping a pod will spawn in time and being able to sit at 90+% without having to pop pods. If you can kill things at a decent speed, that + popping pods should keep you in the mission as long as you want. Exiting should be forced by not being able to kill things quickly enough to get the drops. If you are killing things as fast as they show up, but still not getting enough life support to stay in mission, then that's a problem. And that problem gets magnified for solo players, since you have slower spawn rates, and hence a significantly slower kill rate. The way they have it set now, it's impossible to get enough drops to keep you in the mission, even if you were insta-killing everything that appeared on the map. If that's the way the intend the mission to go, drop the pretense that it's "endless". I should point out that the rates might be fine for group play, I haven't tried that. My concerns are purely from a solo player perspective, one I don't expect DE to put much weight into, based on their history. Edited August 26, 2015 by BhruicDearg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) i mean, it's not like there's a dedicated Thread for this in workshop or anything. but feel free to not post in the Thread asking for Constructive Critisism about the subject you're posting elsewhere about. (also, a sample size of larger than one is critically important to be able to accurately identify a problem if any) Edited August 26, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I still soling these missions because there hard to find any normal public matches. I haven't active clan and friends whom playing this game so the solo players will experience more about nerfs. Not experienced this yet but might be consider to "balance" again this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhruicDearg Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 i mean, it's not like there's a dedicated Thread for this in workshop or anything. but feel free to not post in the Thread asking for Constructive Critisism about the subject you're posting elsewhere about. (also, a sample size of larger than one is critically important to be able to accurately identify a problem if any) You'll have to forgive me for choosing to give mission feedback in the mission feedback subforum. A horrible oversight on my part, I'm sure. And no, a sample size of one is able to identify the fact that there is a problem. The only way this shows up as an issue is if there is a problem. Otherwise you wouldn't get situations like I ran into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 And no, a sample size of one is able to identify the fact that there is a problem. The only way this shows up as an issue is if there is a problem. Otherwise you wouldn't get situations like I ran into. Enemy spawns have an impact on the amount of life support you will get, since enemy spawns are different every match no, a sample size of one isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy6646 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 pfft they made it easy mode now they didnt nerf it no more than 5 or 6 spawns per room 90% of them drop air i finished my last one at 45 minutes with 6 air pods they broke it the wrong way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhruicDearg Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Enemy spawns have an impact on the amount of life support you will get, since enemy spawns are different every match no, a sample size of one isn't good enough. Well thanks for proving my point. If you have to rely on enemy spawns that might not be sufficient to allow you to continue in the mission, then that itself is a problem. Having to rely on the RNG to succeed at a mission is bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomie Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Tried T4 Survival Solo with Ash Prime was done after 14mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Survival was a fun, effective way to "beat" the grind. Or at least to reduce it. And you know DE cannot have us doing that. Its reached a point where DE are determined to see just how much grind players will put up with before they really do quit. I'm pretty close to showing them. My Borderlands collection could use another playthrough; even their RNG is better than this. And to boot, those games feature missions that are actually fun. So that's about one year off from Warframe if I go that route, and all the money I was spending to support going with me. This is not a contest, DE; we are not opposing forces, us players and you Devs. Make your game fun and we will play it. And spend money on it. But if your plan is to drive Plat sales by driving up grind and player inconvenience, you really WILL lose us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You'll have to forgive me for choosing to give mission feedback in the mission feedback subforum. A horrible oversight on my part, I'm sure. And no, a sample size of one is able to identify the fact that there is a problem. The only way this shows up as an issue is if there is a problem. Otherwise you wouldn't get situations like I ran into. He pointed out that there is a thread for this which is closely watched by the responsible people at DE. They pointed out that they will be monitoring the feedback on survival and make changes if necessary. One player having a problem is a problem, but if it is just one single player with that problem, it's not one DE needs to adress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-AbsoluteZero Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 DE Motto: If it isn't broken, we'll break it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibernetika Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 this was my go at T4D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazerath Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 i mean, it's not like there's a dedicated Thread for this in workshop or anything. but feel free to not post in the Thread asking for Constructive Critisism about the subject you're posting elsewhere about. (also, a sample size of larger than one is critically important to be able to accurately identify a problem if any) I have a lot of appreciation for forum users who care about maintaining the forums organized. It helps the moderators, it helps DE and it helps the community as a whole. So thank you. However, I feel like there's no need to provoke or mock others for posting something in the wrong place. That might end up creating an entirely different and unnecessary problem. Also, in this specific case the forum staff forgot to add the link to the workshop thread when posting the update notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latiac Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I came back from an ODS mission at 20 minutes just now and. It was rough. We managed to do it with 3 of us at 10%-ish LS. We'd usually have 60 - 70 LS and be able to go on to 40 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest khk6 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Changes like these...really makes me wonder...if theyre actually playing their game.... Especially solo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notlamprey Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Changes like these...really makes me wonder...if theyre actually playing their game.... Especially solo... I think DE plays the game without understanding why their players do what we do. Their goals when playing are very different from ours, and I think they're in a position from which it's tough to understand the differences in how play feels to them versus how it feels to us. I can't really fault them for it - it's a consequence of the different positions we occupy, and not necessarily any shortcoming of theirs. Having said that, I just tested a Tower II Survival solo, and MAN is it different. For me, it's different in a very bad way. For a long time now, solo Void Survival has been my go-to when I wanted a mission that would satisfy me both for engagement and reward. I could start off at a leisurely pace and ride the difficulty curve with a little smart play and careful attention. Without much strain, I could enjoy myself (key words there) for 40 minutes and pick up a few crumbs for my time. There wasn't a lot of time for replying to messages or keeping up with clan chat, but with a little effort I could manage it just fine. I would get my daily "me time" in, and that was that. Now, solo Void Survival does not feel like a thing I can enjoy at all. Was I engaged by the "hectic" pace of play? Maybe in fits and starts, but mostly I was just stressed out. It did not feel like a situation that could be managed with smart play. It felt like a race against a mean clock. Suddenly I was being punished for every missed shot, every sub-optimal movement choice, every time an enemy took cover, every time I shot something and it didn't die, every second spent in a tile with unfavorable spawn locations or enemy pathing. I played for 40 minutes, and I did not enjoy those minutes. No time to type, no time to talk, no time to scratch an itch, breathe, answer questions, look at my phone, or do anything but shoot things and kill them. Faster. FASTER. DEAFENING IS THE CRACK OF THE WHIP BEHIND ME. I'm exaggerating for effect, but you get the point. It was not hectic. It was just stressful. An honest question to DE: why change both the frequency and the effect of PSL drops at once? Why not test the effect of either change independently before pushing both live at the same time? Edited August 26, 2015 by notlamprey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyh2 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I used to enjoy solo survival and I really get frustrated with changes like this. I don't know how much changes from before were eased back on before this new change but I stopped enjoying the mode last time this was done. I just want a mode with good rewards where I can kill stuff as long as I want. Everytime you do this it just forces people to get more stationary to improve spawns and then use nekros and hydroid to improve air supply drops. I want a mode where I can run around killing stuff casually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belcebub Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sounds like they destroyed solo survival runs for no apparent reason... which is a huge bummer since i only ever do solo void survivals on account of getting a half-decent group together being such a giant PITA (that and, solo i could play at my own pace) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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