Dear De. The Simple Statistical Reason As To Why Im Never Going To Buy Void Keys

[Otaiken]

I honestly don't get why DE insists on sticking to the worst rng system imaginable, especially since there's been a metric fuckton of suggestions. Topics both short and long, brief and very detailed. Yet they just will not learn and refuse to change.

[Uchuujin51]

This speaks for it's self.

A suggestion: Remove all these from the tower. Add in tokens you earn at the end of each tower. The higher the rank , the more you get. Use those to trade in for what you want.

While I like that in principle we need only look at the costs of Dojo rooms to know what DE considers fair pricing.

[RealityMachina]

Gentlemen, there is a simple explanation for all this, including the Dojo costs.

 

The following is believed to be an meme-ified image of DE's current hired expert on game economies:

He shall henceforth be known as "Economy Dog".

 

Economy Dog, in terms of expertise, knows not that much about game economics, to be honest. Before he was hired, he specialized mainly in digging holes, scaring cats, and being best friend to man.

 

Being a member of Canis lupus familiaris, he has difficulty using the human-designed devices known to us as mices, and keyboards. He calls them "Woof!" and "Arf!" personally. This obviously leads to requiring assistance from his personal intern when it comes to typing up the various economy changes Economy Dog makes.

 

However, his greatest trouble in the field of game economics, is the fact, that he is new to the world of the human workforce in general. Having not even elementary school experience, nor any kind of job experience in this field, it's a miracle that Economy Dog has not made it so certain items require mailing him steak bones or requires one to make sounds impossible to do with

 

As someone who has played many F2P games under other companies like Hi-Rez Studios, Electronic Arts, or Perfect World Enterainment, I would like to say these companies enjoy better profits from their games without too much impact on the fun value, if only by virtue of having discriminated for their game economic experts, people who actually know how game economics function.

 

I suggest Digital Extremes do the same, and let Economy Dog go, even though I'm sure at this point, he is considered a cherished part of the team, espeically by his owner, Stunlock Man.

[Kendoz]

Not trying to white knight anything but, why do you guys care that much about the items from the void ? I already did about 60 runs and still haven't my receiver or frost bp, but I don't care that much about it. Maybe it's because I played WoW a lot and WoW have some ridiculous drop rates on a few things.

However, I do agree with you guys. Such a small drop chance isn't normal for this kind of game, they should at least warn you, that those parts are extremely rare, but I guess then people wouldn't buy the keys anymore.

[MJ12]

I honestly don't get why DE insists on sticking to the worst rng system imaginable, especially since there's been a metric fuckton of suggestions. Topics both short and long, brief and very detailed. Yet they just will not learn and refuse to change.

 

Honestly my opinion of the current state of affairs at DE is:

 

DE's art guys are really fantastic.

 

DE's game designers are good (besides for Stunlock Man, f**k Stunlock Man).

 

DE's balance team is okay but they kneejerk overnerf things way too much and are too stingy on buffs.

 

DE's economics department is a dog rolling his face on the keyboard.

 

Guess who decides how the RNG works? ECONOMY DOG. Economy Dog needs to be given a biscuit and replaced by an intern with at least a bachelor's in economics and the ability to do research.

[Sibris]

I've been constantly doing void missions since launch. All Tiers, all mission types. This is my tally so far.


11 Latron Prime Blueprints
13 Latron Prime Stocks
2 Latron Prime Barrels
0 Latron Prime Receivers

1 Frost Prime Blueprints.
2 Frost Prime Systems Blueprints.
0 Frost Prime Chassis
0 Frost Prime Helmet

3 Reaper Prime Blueprints
5 Reaper Handles
0 Reaper Blades.

Yeah, each one of those with a key from the market. Not looted or rewarded.

 

Unacceptable.

 

You can see its obviously a scam.

 

I wont be buying anymore keys. Or anything else as a matter of fact.

 

DE has officially lost my support with this. 

 

[Madotsuki]

Y'know I can actually understand that Frost Prime BP should be almost non-existent as a mission reward, if it isn't already. The Frost Prime BP was meant as a reward for the Fusion MOA event, it was what made the event special. The fact that Frost Prime BPs can even be acquired after the event (future trading excluded) seems disappointing, at least to those who participated in the event.

As for everything else though, DE sure crossed the line on them. As if players actually buying void keys to access the hyped up Orokin levels and to actually craft their event reward wasn't enough, they had to try to cheat players by making certain components insanely rare to make you buy more. At least I've heard rumors that DE will correct the drop rate mistake on Monday. We'll see about that.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Madotsuki

[Jaon]

This is the first time Ive actually hated what DE is doing.

Ive only done 25 runs and have also not got the blade and receiver, thats still 375 platinum between me and my friends.

They royally screwed us gentlemen. 

Edited May 27, 2013 by Jaon

[shyme]

money talks ? pfft

[Cpl_Facehugger]

This is the first time Ive actually hated what DE is doing.

Ive only done 25 runs and have also not got the blade and receiver, thats still 375 platinum between me and my friends.

They royally screwed us gentlemen.

From what Rebecca said in the hotfix thread, it sounds like this is a bug rather than something intentional.

[shinydunsparce]

This speaks for it's self.

A suggestion: Remove all these from the tower. Add in tokens you earn at the end of each tower. The higher the rank , the more you get. Use those to trade in for what you want.

 

You mean like other games (like the most successful mmo of all time) do it? Nah, DE is still figuring out p2p networking like it's 2002.

[Me.Greedy]

just a question to you guys.. would you guys still buy keys if they came out and said there is only a .01% chance of getting the rarest items?

 

would knowing the actual rarity percent make a difference?

 

in Borderlands 2, there was a mistake in a drop for a sniper rifle, but they came out and told you it was ".05%" IF a sniper rifle drops from the enemy. it was nice of them to tell us, simply cuz it saved me the time of even trying for one. (here it would save people money instead of time, i suppose.)

 

just curious really. i don't feel this would make anything okay.

[Ninjaman999]

Drop tables always seem to be S#&$ from what I gather, and I've been here since the CBT days -___-
Come on DE, get your act togethor, I just got a new job....

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ninjaman999

[Onite]

That might be true. But you simply cant make real "statistics" for something that relies on rng. But well.

Averages are a point, I have to admit that.

Its not a true natural RNG. Let me show you.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52708-rng-no-just-ng-for-your-money/

[KaneTheDark]

I'm so glad i read this thread before spending platinum on keys. Say it aint so Digital Extremes.... They just lost like half of their cool points in my book

[qweztu]

Hey, you know what this sounds like? Spiral Knights with their lockboxes... but SK has less skill involved with getting that special item, just spam the RNG to open boxes like no tomorrow. Well it helps Spiral Knights that you can exchange in-game cash for in-game special cash and use the special stuff for opening boxes.

 

Eh... The game's still fine, just avoid the new content for a while.

[Dawg]

4 Forma BP

 

1 Frost Prime Blueprint

2 Frost Prime Systems

2 Frost Prime Helmet

2 Frost Prime Chasssis

 

24 Latron Prime Blueprint

10 Latron Prime Barrel

19 Latron Prime Stock

 

15 Reaper Prime Blueprint (twice bugged)

18 Reaper Handle

[Mactax]

This is why I quit playing Diablo 3 in 3 weeks after release...

We have 12 items that can drop from Void missions. 12 keys that is absolute minimum you have to get for a chance of having all of the drops (trollface). That means, you have to play for at least 60 hours of random missions just to get those keys. Then why don't DE makes that every item from the Void has equal chance of dropping?! I doubt that you can get everything from 12 runs, let it be 24 but it is still and average of 120+ hours of gameplay for only ONE feature in the patch. I think this is more than enough for people to keep playing the game.

Yet you make it that even 90 runs (90 keys, 450 hours of farming for solo player) is not enough to get everything...
 

I really hope, that drop rates are unintentionally bugged in U8 ^^

[MaduSciuntistu]

Its funny, I had a reciever in my inventory (i know because the was a one next to the thing int he foundry) and after patch 8.0.4 It was gone.

[Boomstick720]

So yeah.  This thread is pretty much why I generally hate f2p communities.  Because pretty much every one that I've seen, if the devs screw the pooch once, or change something you do like, or make it harder for you to NOT GIVE THEM MONEY, its because they are greedy selfish A******s who use their profits to burn down foster homes and hospitals, and not because, just maybe, they actually kind of need money to do things.  I'm kinda getting fed up with this bullsh*t thats been going on since U8, where the devs are suddenly Hitler combined with EA because god forbid they try to incentivize players actually giving money.  Hell, there STILL aren't any items that are literally unobtainable unless through platinum, so they are still better than most TF2 markets.  Hell, TF2 is far worse at this than these guys are, cause so far there are pretty much only 3 items that are valued that are difficult to obtain, as opposed to like 60% of them as with the case of TF2.

 

If you guys have issues with what the devs are doing, fine, but lets just cut the sh*t now that the devs are @(*()$ you because they're A******s.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Boomstick720

[shinydunsparce]

So yeah.  This thread is pretty much why I generally hate f2p communities.  Because pretty much every one that I've seen, if the devs screw the pooch once, or change something you do like, or make it harder for you to NOT GIVE THEM MONEY, its because they are greedy selfish A******s who use their profits to burn down foster homes and hospitals, and not because, just maybe, they actually kind of need money to do things.  I'm kinda getting fed up with this bullsh*t thats been going on since U8, where the devs are suddenly Hitler combined with EA because god forbid they try to incentivize players actually giving money.  Hell, there STILL aren't any items that are literally unobtainable unless through platinum, so they are still better than most TF2 markets.  Hell, TF2 is far worse at this than these guys are, cause so far there are pretty much only 3 items that are valued that are difficult to obtain, as opposed to like 60% of them as with the case of TF2.

 

If you guys have issues with what the devs are doing, fine, but lets just cut the sh*t now that the devs are @(*()$ you because they're A******s.

0/10 Nice try.

[Boomstick720]

0/10 Nice try.

enlighten me then.  Show me how its clear that clearly the devs have sold their souls to lucifer himself, and are now dedicating their time to just malevolently destroying everything you hold dear.  Show me, oh wise one, so that I too may see the light.

[Spriggs]

Linked this thread to DERebecca, as this is certainly cause for concern. While I do agree, this is a little early, what with it being a week into launch--if that--it should still be looked into.

[Aerensiniac]

So yeah.  This thread is pretty much why I generally hate f2p communities.  Because pretty much every one that I've seen, if the devs screw the pooch once, or change something you do like, or make it harder for you to NOT GIVE THEM MONEY, its because they are greedy selfish A******s who use their profits to burn down foster homes and hospitals, and not because, just maybe, they actually kind of need money to do things.  I'm kinda getting fed up with this bullsh*t thats been going on since U8, where the devs are suddenly Hitler combined with EA because god forbid they try to incentivize players actually giving money.  Hell, there STILL aren't any items that are literally unobtainable unless through platinum, so they are still better than most TF2 markets.  Hell, TF2 is far worse at this than these guys are, cause so far there are pretty much only 3 items that are valued that are difficult to obtain, as opposed to like 60% of them as with the case of TF2.

 

If you guys have issues with what the devs are doing, fine, but lets just cut the sh*t now that the devs are @(*()$ you because they're A******s.

 

Well aint that golden? Scamming, cheating and stealing is now all okay because you "kind of need money".

God for bid there are options like I DONT KNOW Boomy:

- Telling your players about it (Like TF2's **** boxes which had the common courtesy of having the LABEL of "or an Exceedingly Rare Special Item!" also never hiding the fact that the drop rate is 1%)

- Not trying to sell something that by definition is useless (because god damn gee its so much fun to spend 75 plat on 9 items WHICH CANNOT BE USED AT ALL WITHOUT THE 3 RARE ONES)

- Coming forward to the community with monetary issues and asking for their support instead of trying to scam them? (As in ASKING for instead of STEALING the money)

- Figuring out the value of what you are selling and not trying to sell it for roughly 2000 times more than what its actually worth?

 

Just for the sake of example, but you know what else Boomy? It doesnt matter, because these keys are not worth it. No matter what you call this entire issue, whether its scamming, making a mistake, not thinking about it at all... doesnt matter. Those keys are not only not worth 75 plat but looking at the concept of it, they are worth less than 10 platinum, because once again its all over a rigged RNG system with no drops guaranteed.

Its not like there are secondary drops which increase the value of the entire void system, such as "only rare mods drop in there" or "you have a chance of finding entire, complete weapons and/or frames". No.

Its the pay 75 platinum to wind up at the conclusion that you cant get anything from it at all, because it will be once again common mods with 75% of them being ability mods, and 9 useless items because there are 3 rare ones that have a drowned drop chance, despite the fact that the rest of the drops cant be used for ANYTHING without them.

 

So with all due respect: Trying to make profits is not the problem. HOW YOU DO IT is.

[Artaban]

It never ceases to amaze me how impatient and entitled people are. You know, I ran about 15 void missions with friends, just kind of using keys from different people. Saw the rng was kind of bad. (Though the mods from the vault rooms were nice.) and decided to wait til the next hotfix. It's like... self control and patience. Holy S#&$, I just saved myself a ton of money and effort. If the obviously unpolished state of this patch didn't raise some serious red flags that maybe you should just chill for a bit I guess... I dunno.

 

Who needs that though? I'd rather burn through almost 100 keys then $#*(@ on the forums because... reasons. Right?

 

Psychologically, just having that option there serves as an enticement. It's just like how casinos work; they lure with promises of grandeur and wealth. Yes promises. They only showcase the winners, not the 99.999% of losers. And they only advertise the potential rewards, not the losses incurred by players. The alert system/app is just part of the psychological allurement. That's why you have players waking up in the middle of night, skipping classes, etc.

 

Even adults fall into the psychological trap set by casinos, and you're talking about self-control in an mmo. Having that option to spend real money for "rewards" is a deliberate implement. It's not an accident. What astounds me is the amount players are willing to spend.

 

Update 8 occurred on thursday evening. In less than 40 hours, my clan research in all 3 labs have already started. As of now we are ~36 hours away from completing all the first tier prerequisites. I can only imagine the amount of money and plat dumped in to rush the dojo. It's the enticement of the reward, the new weapons. So what if those players can afford it, so what if it brings in money. It's a bad decision and reflects badly on the future model and design the game might develop into, as well as those that allowed the decision.

 

So essentially, the entire fiasco can be brought down to,

- access to new content may be farmed or purchased

- no guarantee of rewards, only access

- farming is impractical

- purchasing is illogical, since it provides only access and players still have to farm

- screws both f2p and p2p models

 

f2p players: "screw it, we're not going to farm for months just for access to the dojo or void."

 

paying players: "we paid hundreds of dollars and still can't get the rewards!?"