Dear De. The Simple Statistical Reason As To Why Im Never Going To Buy Void Keys

[Zukushi]

I wonder how DE are going to explain this mess. I put my money on "That was a bug" explanation.

[Aerensiniac]

Psychologically, just having that option there serves as an enticement. It's just like how casinos work; they lure with promises of grandeur and wealth. Yes promises. They only showcase the winners, not the 99.999% of losers. And they only advertise the potential rewards, not the losses incurred by players. The alert system/app is just part of the psychological allurement. That's why you have players waking up in the middle of night, skipping classes, etc.

 

Even adults fall into the psychological trap set by casinos, and you're talking about self-control in an mmo. Having that option to spend real money for "rewards" is a deliberate implement. It's not an accident. What astounds me is the amount players are willing to spend.

 

Update 8 occurred on thursday evening. In less than 40 hours, my clan research in all 3 labs have already started. As of now we are ~36 hours away from completing all the first tier prerequisites. I can only imagine the amount of money and plat dumped in to rush the dojo. It's the enticement of the reward, the new weapons. So what if those players can afford it, so what if it brings in money. It's a bad decision and reflects badly on the future model and design the game might develop into, as well as those that allowed the decision.

 

So essentially, the entire fiasco can be brought down to,

- access to new content may be farmed or purchased

- no guarantee of rewards, only access

- farming is impractical

- purchasing is illogical, since it provides only access and players still have to farm

- screws both f2p and p2p models

 

f2p players: "screw it, we're not going to farm for months just for access to the dojo or void."

 

paying players: "we paid hundreds of dollars and still can't get the rewards!?"

 

Well said.

Quoted the summation in the OP.

[Abzu]

I'm glad I didn't upgrade to GM, I was actually planning too right before I started my void farm.

Phew, I am glad I never upgraded to Grand Master or bought any keys. 

Its a @(*()$ robbery at this point. No use in even getting.

[ReiganCross]

Think they care?

Ok, i could only read it so far but i have finally something to say... Put it simply? Yes, they do care... Remember the problem about Dark Sword? About how that drop rate was completely off and when it finally came into the RNG, the mission went batS#&$ insane and didn't dropped the reward?... Do you also remember that they, then, posted a 24 hours alert to make up for the problems?

No, offcurse you don't remember that. Because that's a problem solved, so you don't even think about the event anymore. (It also doesn't help that the Dark Sword kind of sucks...)

My point?... That is proof that DE cares about a problem that might be griefing people. And hell, the Dark Sword thing didn't even got that much attention, maybe a couple of posts complaining about it. The reciever and blade thing is getting some serious repercussion, it wouldn't surprise me if they went all "It seems someone typed a number wrong, here's a 24 hour alert for the reaper blade, we'll post another 24hour alert for the reciever tomorrow."

So my god, stop complaining about this and start complaining about the fact that we have to wait for everything to be done just to be given the chance at paying for it, will ya?!

[Rhekinos]

I'm surprised DE has not responded to this yet even when it had a Dear de in the title. Please give your feedback because we are very confused in this matter.

[MaduSciuntistu]

For real though, they really need to at least adress this and tell us if it is a planned drop rate or something is wrong.

That would be nice.n Thats all I want at this point.

[Onite]

For real though, they really need to at least adress this and tell us if it is a planned drop rate or something is wrong.

That would be nice.n Thats all I want at this point.

They really need to reimburse atleast the keys used since U8's release. People spent REAL money, alot of it, on something that on purpose or not, was in DE's favor financially, and unfairly. Its the smartest way from the sale point to get your paying customers to not feel punished for investing in you in the first place.

 

[Zantestsuken]

Ok, i could only read it so far but i have finally something to say... Put it simply? Yes, they do care... Remember the problem about Dark Sword? About how that drop rate was completely off and when it finally came into the RNG, the mission went batS#&$ insane and didn't dropped the reward?... Do you also remember that they, then, posted a 24 hours alert to make up for the problems?

No, offcurse you don't remember that. Because that's a problem solved, so you don't even think about the event anymore. (It also doesn't help that the Dark Sword kind of sucks...)

My point?... That is proof that DE cares about a problem that might be griefing people. And hell, the Dark Sword thing didn't even got that much attention, maybe a couple of posts complaining about it. The reciever and blade thing is getting some serious repercussion, it wouldn't surprise me if they went all "It seems someone typed a number wrong, here's a 24 hour alert for the reaper blade, we'll post another 24hour alert for the reciever tomorrow."

So my god, stop complaining about this and start complaining about the fact that we have to wait for everything to be done just to be given the chance at paying for it, will ya?!

 

This guy. Probably Forma as a construction material wich cost platinum is something absolutely done by accident. De didn't charge for a resource on purpouse ;)

 

You sir, made my day

[Abzu]

They really need to reimburse atleast the keys used since U8's release. People spent REAL money, alot of it, on something that on purpose or not, was in DE's favor financially, and unfairly. Its the smartest way from the sale point to get your paying customers to not feel punished for investing in you in the first place.

 

I would agree with this, if they were generous enough to not rollback anything else.  otherwise this is impossible.

[Onite]

I would agree with this, if they were generous enough to not rollback anything else.  otherwise this is impossible.

Its not a rollback, you just look at a log and add x keys to accounts that used x keys.

[TheaMatticks]

I'm surprised DE has not responded to this yet even when it had a Dear de in the title. Please give your feedback because we are very confused in this matter.

It's the weekend.  THey're not at work.  DEREbececca said she'd ask them to look at it monday(today).

[Abzu]

Its not a rollback, you just look at a log and add x keys to accounts that used x keys.

I don't think they keep track of that, like bought keys vs. found keys.  But if they're able to, by all means they should.  I definitely want my platinum back.

[Onite]

I don't think they keep track of that, like bought keys vs. found keys.  But if they're able to, by all means they should.  I definitely want my platinum back.

You bet your sweet &#! they most likely keep a log of what platinum is spent on. You'd have to be a moron of a company not to for marketing statistics alone.

[TheaMatticks]

You bet your sweet &#! they most likely keep a log of what platinum is spent on. You'd have to be a moron of a company not to for marketing statistics alone.

That's not what he said.  Sure, they know what plat was spent for keys, but do they keep track of people who found keys and used them?  The poster he responded to made no differentiation between keys that were bought and keys that were found.

[SunnyBunny-]

Lets give DE the benefit of the doubt and say that mmaybe they just made some bad decisions, thinking it would be a coool way of getting players to play more, not pay more.

I'm sure they will realize whats going on and do somthing about it. c:

[ReiganCross]

This guy. Probably Forma as a construction material wich cost platinum is something absolutely done by accident. De didn't charge for a resource on purpouse ;)

 

You sir, made my day

Although i'll give you that Forma as a construction material was almost as much a bullS#&$ as building times, you WILL have to agree with me that they're not in the habit of scaming people using RNG as a basis. Forma as construction material is not the problem of the OP, is it? The problem is how low the chances are.

[Zantestsuken]

Although i'll give you that Forma as a construction material was almost as much a bullS#&$ as building times, you WILL have to agree with me that they're not in the habit of scaming people using RNG as a basis. Forma as construction material is not the problem of the OP, is it? The problem is how low the chances are.

 

S#&$!!! There are chances of getting it?

 

Agree with you.

[matrixEXO]

In regards to the runs, can you all detail what rank and type of run did you do? I'm pretty sure that T3 are rare and should be the ones giving the highest chance of getting the receivers and blades but...

 

Also, Frost Prime BP is not obtainable from the Orokin Void set, if I recall correctly. It was only obtainable from the extermination event that occurred some time ago, meaning the Prime parts are actually a waste of time and keys for some of you.

Edited May 27, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Gemini_Jenvas]

Void missions are fun, even puzzles are included and it would be all fine if I need a strong team to get through tier 3 missions if I atleast got the parts I needed. Instead this lottery is clearly rigged.

What I want to see is harder missions that actually take skill and preperation, but yield a high chance to drop those buildparts and bps if compleeted.

 

so far every boss I farmed to get warframes has been more or less a push over, the only difficulty was the rng behind the chances for the drops. I would love to have a boss that can floor a compleet squad if the players arent well prepared or unlucky, but then drops the bps with a much higher chance if he is defeated.

That would shift the farming from sheer numbers of runs to preparation and experiance.

 

btw, forma for the dojo? hell  no!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Jenvas1306

[Zukushi]

In regards to the runs, can you all detail what rank and type of run did you do? I'm pretty sure that T3 are rare and should be the ones giving the highest chance of getting the receivers and blades but...

 

Also, Frost Prime BP is not obtainable from the Orokin Void set, if I recall correctly. It was only obtainable from the extermination event that occurred some time ago, meaning the Prime parts are actually a waste of time and keys for some of you.

 

It doesn't seem to matter what tier of mission you doing, rewards are pretty much the same. That's the issue.

 

Also, it was confirmed that Frost Prime BP is obtainable as a reward from the Void.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52102-confirmed-frost-prime-blueprint-droppable-in-void/

Edited May 27, 2013 by Zukushi

[Inberun]

Free Platinum on Monday for everyone.

[Aerensiniac]

Free Platinum on Monday for everyone.

Personally i dont want free S#&$. I want my investments (whether its time, money or resources) to be worth it from a gamer's perspective.

Everyone play's for the sake of entertainment and a balanced mix between challenge and success. In warframe, all you have currently is farming frames which you can then use to farm more frames.

 

Handing out free platinum at this point is like a ticket to a ride which consist of an empty corridor that curves back to the ticket stand. It would be time to fill that corridor with something cause people very soon will be only wanting one thing: To leave this endless circle of nothingness.

 

To link my other thread (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49998-this-is-not-the-type-of-feedback-you-are-looking-for-after-all-your-work-with-u8-welcome-to-warfarmers/) as an example:

 

If i were to take over warframe's problems to WoW, then it would look like the following:

You wind up alone at the end game raid boss, run through the map without killing anything, win, get nothing, then repeat this sequence till the object of your desire drops, then you go and grind mats for it for 6 weeks, craft it for 3 days, then equip it, feel good about it for 5 minutes and then cancel your account cause you have nothing to do for the next 6 months except looking good in the item set you have no effort soloed together from the hardest game content available.

 

Farming is not the problem here.

The problem is that (and i literally cant put this in any other way, shape or form) there is nothing except farming.

Literally.

No content playwise.

No team play, no difficulty, no reward scaling, no bosses, no challenges, no nothing that would make you play an actual game.

Instead you have enemies that act like grass acts towards the lawn mower, and mow dat S#&$ with nothing in between, till it drops something you want, and god forbid its a mod you want cause then you are done. It can drop from everywhere and anything at the almost same chance with skill mod polluted drop tables.

 

Its like taking out all raids and all instances from World of warcraft and let everything drop from everything at the same ~rng~ chance.

Level 1 mobs will drop the same **** level 90 mobs do, so there is no point to anything. You do not need to do bosses, you do not need to do raid, you do not need to do anything.

Then for additional lulz, we add the fact that every item in the entire game drops like this, so your chance of obtaining a particular item is always 0.00000000000000000000000001% wherever you go and whatever you do, making it even impossible to farm, cause instead of farming you will be stuck in an endless nightmare of repeating the same process without anything to take your mind off of it.

 

So its pretty much like warframe's endless defense and mobile defense.

Those two missions are the thing you will be repeating till you get a tumor from warframe and uninstall it to hell before signing into the nearest hospital.

 

So spelling it out: Farming is not the issue. Rng is not the issue.

The issue is:

- Pushing your ENTIRE loot table into rng which then gives you a chance measured in 68 decimals to obtain something specific.

- Having no loot scaling with difficulty, making you completely indifferent towards where you are and what you are doing.

- Having boss tier drops such as blueprints drop with rng from a boss that dies from two clips in the face, spending 99.8% of your "farming time" with running to or from the boss room, having no team work, no boss fight, no nothing in the process.

- Having 0 team work or ANY content that would force you to do team work, leaving 3 other players on your solo map just for the lulz of it cause you are perfectly able to one shot enemies or nuke an entire room at the touch of a single button

- 0 stopping power for enemies even at higher levels making you able to slash dash through the entire map

For possible solutions refer to:

 

End game or at least a bit of depth to the game?

Lets see...

- Levels that require you to have a bit of thinking instead of just rushing through (by whatever means, including mazes, climbing hazards, movement challenges)

- Actual boss fights that require either team work (due to difficulty) or brains (with non direct damage kills and/or shooting specific parts/combination of parts), instead of just shooting at the direction of the boss which will either one shot you, or look in your direction with a tear in its eye.

- Raids that require more than 4 players

- Loot scaling with difficulty increase so there is at least SOME merit to the fact that im killing stuff in a level 50+ mission.

- At least SOME fixed drops instead of painting rng onto EVERYTHING (primary example: wave 75 for an uncommon hellfire mod. well ****ing done)

- Maps with a difficulty that require roles and/or team tactics (instead of having 4 solo players with 0 communication on one map mowing down everything without even taking damage to health)

- Synergy and frame ability combos i.e. mag's bullet attractor and excalibur's radial javelin.

- Lore/collectibles

- Achievements and effort related skins/colors/items/whatever

- Missions that are on par with your maxed/oc gear (in clear text: Hardcore content for those who have already hit the level cap)

- Clan related missions/events

- Some form of competitive mode between clans

- etc

 

If i were to focus only on the question of "end game", then my answer can be summarized in 3 major points:

1. There is no team play nor any form of content that would require you to do so

2. Bosses are worthless and difficulty/reward scaling is completely broken and/or nonexistent

3. Lack of non RNG related items - whether its achievements, fixed drops, fixed wave loot or whatever, having only rng burns your players out

 

Its hard to compare warframe to other MMOs on the market, but there are also generic elements which hold true never the less, such as difficulty, team play, and reason/goal to work towards. Having no difficulty scaling/generally 0 challenge in the game destroys the first and second while rng destroys the third. Its also worth to mention that while RNG will keep your players busy for a lot longer than fixed or higher percentage drops, it will also burn them out a hundred times quicker since they will be doing the same thing over and over again for no form of reward or success. This problem ofc multiplies when its matched up with the fact that difficulty is nonexistent and you can run across maps without firing a single shot.

 

The entire loot table is pushed into the ****in rng and then diluted further with useless skill mods, while farming is no effort at any given time, poses no challenge, no change, no nothing. There is no team work, no communication, no socializing, no planning, no tuning, no theorizing, no synergy, no roles, no classes, no team objectives, nothing matters, screw your choices, go and repeatedly kill the same useless and defenseless pedestrian of a boss for 89 times till our holy lord of rng script decides to bless you with a bp, yet it wont matter at all by that time cause you grew brain cancer after the 6th day of farming.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Zantestsuken]

btw, forma for the dojo? hell  no!

 

AMEN! Support my campaign https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52312-forma-needs-to-be-removed-as-a-construction-material/page-2

[matrixEXO]

It doesn't seem to matter what tier of mission you doing, rewards are pretty much the same. That's the issue.

 

Also, it was confirmed that Frost Prime BP is obtainable as a reward from the Void.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52102-confirmed-frost-prime-blueprint-droppable-in-void/

Rewards may be the same but the chances aren't. Easier to get Frost parts on T2 than T1, guaranteed by me.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I didn't want to downright say it's not possible so I put some doubt in my sentencing.

[Ageless_Emperion]

You know I spent 150 plat on keys and my friends did as well. If they gave the plat back and fixed the system so it was not rigged then the plat would stll go to them. How stupid do you have to be to trick your player base when they are willing to support you if you just provide them with the respect and understanding you showed in the beginning. The community of this game has been "Your product is so good we want to give you money for it!" response after update 8 was "We think our product is so good, we think we'll just take it...", seriously like wtf?

 

I have always strived to defend DE's practices as some of the best in the industry, but this whole event makes them sink to the level of petty f2p producers that churn out sludge that is meant to milk money and exists for no other reason. I don't want them to be comparable in their practices to such scum. You folks are making a great game, don't let it be soiled by such events.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ageless_Emperion