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Yea I Know.. Another Sniper Topic.. But A Good One I Swear


-BrokenBear-
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As a lover of all things snipers in this and every game I play I feel saddened by the lack of love DE gives them.  

Now in general we all know that snipers need a buff.. yes I do know they are good right now.... and yes I do know that they are viable end game, but in my opinion we only have 2 good snipers, well 3 if you count grinlock with augment. Vectis ( prime counterpart included ) and lanka. Vectis and Lanka are two very different snipers but both are really fun. though one is superior to the other :P * cough* lanka master race, they are both great additions to your arsenal.

Now to the point... I know right all that and i haven't said what i wanted.

 

I kinda wanted this page to be reflective of our collective thoughts, no hate, no fire, no rage. Just tenno discussing important matters.

As i am sure we all know shotguns got a huge buff which makes them some of the best weapons in game now and extremely viable everywhere.

What I want is, that people post what they currently think of Snipers and without being arses talk about how they could be improved and mechanics to make them better for the people that use solely snipers and for those that like to pull them out of their pockets once in a while

 

 

TLDR Version : Dont be an Arse but discuss snipers and possible viable fixes 

 

ps. sorry if there is bad grammar I am tired as hell and not slept in 42 hours yay. go coffee 

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5 good Snipers.

 

Vectis + Prime, Lanka, Vulkar with Augment, Opticor

 

 

The problem with Snipers isn't fixable by changing numbers or things like that. It's a gameplay problem. Think about literally every mission. You're more or less on a level plane with your enemies and within 20m of them, because any further away, and they'd be through the wall.

 

Sniper gameplay is a problem of map design.

 

Yet, there are some good maps for playing Snipers. One of my favorites is the Jupiter Mobile Defense. It's a decently long map, and you can watch them come from afar without being rushed down (Of course, you need someone to guard the flank, as the Corpus will fail the mission rather quickly if you don't watch out.

 

Another good map is the Ceres Grineer Shipyard mobile defense. Once again, you have wide open spaces that enemies have to traverse to get to the objective.

 

We need more of these tiles. Snipers are powerful enough already; the game just discourages their use.

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Since in a recent devstream, the devs(namely Scott) mentioned taking a look a shotguns and snipers, I wanted to address the real issues of these weapons.

 

It's not because of not having enough dps, as evident with the previous sniper buffs that really didn't do anything to the big picture. It's because of the mechanics of the game. DE is unintentionally punishing using these weapons in situations that you'd think these weapons would be useful. I'm going to explain what the intended uses of these weapons are and how exactly DE punishes their use.

 

Snipers

A sniper, by definition, is someone who hides in a concealed place and picks off enemies from a distance. There are very few tiles in warframe that has wide open spaces, and even less that prompts you to sit in one place and "snipe" from there. This is really unchangeable, as it is designed that way at the foundation of the game, and isn't itself the death of Snipers. Though the Soma and Boltor Prime having more accuracy than most snipers doesn't help.

 

In game, snipers have massive single-hit damage, focusing more on burst damage then sustained damage, which is the realm of automatics. Stats alone, snipers are seemingly built to prioritize dangerous or beefy targets to take them out quickly and at a safe distance... this is where snipers get slapped in the face.

 

Damage cap. The death of snipers. Nullifiers, Manics, and even some bosses, cut down that massive single-hit number to an arbitrary number, of which automatics suffer virtually nothing from. Thanks to damage cap, throwing rocks at the enemy is arguably more effective than a sniper rifle.

 

In the void or vs corpus, many of the enemies you would use a sniper on will camp around the Nullifier, forcing you to take out your jack-of-all-trades automatic to take down their bubbles, and since the nullifier himself isn't very beefy, you shoot at him with your automatic as well, not taking the chance to be shot more by the nullifier and his friends. "Good... uh... sniping?"

 

Manics are a prime example of damage cap and how it is designed to punish snipers. I can kill a Manic with ~3 shots from my AkJagara (a win for shotguns, I guess?) at even medium range. At any range, my Lanka can take around 10 shots to skill him.

 

As for bosses, has anyone tried fighting Lephantis with a sniper?

 

Nullifiers still remain the biggest and most obvious problem for snipers, and since time and again you have refused to change it from favoring bullets fired over damage, can we ask why? I recall it was to create diversity in loadouts. This is where I ask, do you even look at what people are bringing to endgame?

 

Automatics (Soma, Boltor P). Continuous weapons (S.Gammacor, Amprex). Explosive (Penta and sometimes Tonkor).

 

If you really want loadout diversity, punish the use of these weapon types instead.

People already had little reason to use snipers, and yet you insisted on mechanics like damage cap, which only really hurt snipers.

 

I want to give feedback, but I don't see the point in trying to fight the battle that was lost a while ago. Go ahead and just boost sniper damage again, see what that does in the face of a 400 damage-per-hit cap.

 

/sniperrantend

 

Shotguns

When put next to melee, shotguns fall short. While only having a bit more damage potential, shotguns do not offer any mobility, stun utility, or defense. Shotguns do not have the range or accuracy to compete at medium range, so the only fair thing to do is compare them to melee, of which they still lose.

 

While shotguns would benefit more from a damage boost then snipers would, it is not to issue of shotguns. Because of shotguns being so closely compared to melee, you have two options;

 

1-Make shotguns effective outside the effective range of melee. Remove the damage falloff and give a tighter spread on some shotguns. At long range shotguns would still do minimal damage. i really don't see the point of damage falloff at all. If the Hek becomes the best sniper in the game again so be it. It's small clip and slow reload holds it back enough.

 

2-Make shotguns substitute melee, giving them some stunning utility. Like if a certain number of pellets hit a target, they are staggered.

 

A damage buff would also be well accepted along with these changes, but won't save shotguns by itself.

 

Since it seems DE isn't hellbent of making shotguns the worst type of weapon unlike they are to snipers, I'm actually able to give some feedback here.

 

DE has shown they are able to put a lot of effort into freshening something up, namely Excalibur, and come out with something viable and worth exploring. I can only hope the same effort will be put into these to neglected areas of ranged weaponry, as shown by the previous "buffs" to snipers, something that lazily done wont work.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Quoting an old topic I made because my initial post bugged out. 

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Damage cap needs to be removed for damage reduction. That way its fair, or throw both out all together. Shotguns have innate punch through yet snipers don't?

 

Bolton can hit multiple enemies if the original enemy is killed and snipers can't?

 

Make the hit box for snipers larger. Make it have innate punch though on enemies and have it ricochet off surfaces..... 

 

Cant go anywhere but up at this point

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while i've written up things many times, here's one snippet from the Forum Search Tool conveniently placed for you.

as far as i'm concerned, 35% Crit Chance is the lowest a Sniping Weapon should be. this leaves the option for using Critical Delay to get a 100% Crit Chance.

+30 Crit Chance (flat value) on Weakpoints.

if you want higher than that, for a Sniper Rifle, it should be 70%. this does... reach 208.6%. we shouldn't have another stage of Crits, just cap it to 200%.

i think it's important to keep Crits there, as you should still be able to use Player Skill when appropriate. sometimes, you need to NOT shoot things in the face. if your Weapon punishes you for using your Weapon the way you need to use it, that's not cool.

reward for using it in a super precise way, don't punish for not when the situation forces you to not.

as ever, having some sort of 'wallhacks' view with the Optics (or ideally IMO, an Optic Slot on Sniper Rifles with many different types of Optics available. see Enemies through walls, highlight Weakpoints, extra high Zoom, extra low Zoom, Et Cetera) is certainly useful.

rather than a Damaging AoE, i would be okay accepting an AoE Stagger on Weakpoints. a bit of CC to go with your precise shooting.

there's a lot more that you can do that's interesting, this only scratches the surface.

Edit:

Damage cap needs to be removed for damage reduction.

?

i don't understand.

Edited by taiiat
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while i've written up things many times, here's one snippet from the Forum Search Tool conveniently placed for you.

there's a lot more that you can do that's interesting, this only scratches the surface.

Edit:

?

i don't understand.

 

 

 

Some bosses have a damage cap meaning that shots have a limit to the damage they can do. Lephantis has a damage cap that makes snipers and stronger weapons like the opticor more or less invalid as the damage cap hurts snipers more then a fully automatic rifle. 

 

So lets say lephantis has a damage cap of 1000 damage, a soma could still kill him relatively quickly cause of the fire speed, A vectis would take much longer as each vectis shot won't do anything more then 1000 damage. The soma has the same damage cap of 1000 but can put more shots into him

 

Im saying get rid of the damage cap and maybe replace it with damage reduction so that the soma and the vectis still keep their effectiveness rather then soma doing the same amount of damage.

 

Does that make sense?

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Some bosses have a damage cap

oh, that.

i thought you were talking about Armor.

yes/no. i don't like Damage Caps, bu... well, i guess the same sort of Damage Recuction the Juggernaut uses does basically solve that.

i certainly would indeed like to not feel like i need to use a Soma any time i fight Lephantis just because it's just the best Weapon to use. others are severely hindered, while it is mostly unhindered.

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oh, that.

i thought you were talking about Armor.

yes/no. i don't like Damage Caps, bu... well, i guess the same sort of Damage Recuction the Juggernaut uses does basically solve that.

i certainly would indeed like to not feel like i need to use a Soma any time i fight Lephantis just because it's just the best Weapon to use. others are severely hindered, while it is mostly unhindered.

 

Damage cap is bs because it reduces the damage of some weapons greater then others, a good soma prime build does around idk... maybe 2k damage per shot, my vectis does 34k if it crits. So the soma loses 50% with its damage cap ( damage cap is 1000 for the argument ) and the vectis loses around 98% of its damage.... its kinda ridiculous... 

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