[Mod Request] Reduce Ability Range And Increase Strength

[Greatheart]

As the title says I'd love a mod to reduce ability range and increase power or efficiency. Should be getting Mesa soon but I hate having to chase loot down all over the map and the range is insane. (Same with a few other warframes too.)

 

New nightmare mod would be awesome!

[Naftal]

Range mods don't affect Peacemaker.

[Kalvorax]

it wouldnt work with Mesa, as her Peacemaker is a flat 50m unchangeable range.

 

BUT for other frames it would be great...maybe call it "Focused power" :P

Edited September 4, 2015 by xcynderx

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Uh... It would work perfect with peacemaker.... negative range wouldn't effect her at all.... it would help her keep duration for things like shatter shield etc

[Fifield]

No. Corrupted mods enable exploitative play, discourage use of the full skillset and make balancing a lot more difficult.  DE made a big mistake in introducing them.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Fifield

[RavenCorella]

No. Corrupted mods enable exploitative play, discourage use of the full skillset and make balancing a lot more difficult.  DE made a big mistake in introducing them.

Yes. Corrupted mods enable personalized builds, encourages players to test many builds and use the most optional build that suits themselves. DE made a lot of people happy by introducing them. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

No. Corrupted mods enable exploitative play, discourage use of the full skillset and make balancing a lot more difficult.  DE made a big mistake in introducing them.

 

Actually makes the game more balanced... Imaging if blind rage didn't have negative efficiency... You'd have frames with 175% efficiency and 284% power strength spamming ultimates every three seconds instead of using weapons. People would build max range max strength and max efficiency and would nuke everything for insane damage at 25 energy. Nullifiers would be the only thing stopping them and they aren't particularly tough outside their shields... and grineer would be extinct within 48 hours

 

They introduced nightmare mods for 2 reasons: To make us be able to fight tougher enemies, and to stop something from becoming to overwhelming.

Without nightmare mods you can only increase things to a maximum of 55% more ( primed cont) and most abilities only get effective for end game at around 200% Do you wanna go back to the days where level 30 enemies posed a threat to you? or do you wanna be able to contend with level 100+?

Edited September 4, 2015 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Salacavalini]

We already have three power strength mods in the game, no need for a fourth one just yet.

[Greatheart]

it wouldnt work with Mesa, as her Peacemaker is a flat 50m unchangeable range.

 

BUT for other frames it would be great...maybe call it "Focused power" :P

Ahh that sucks, shame it isn't a max range of 50m.

 

Guess we need a range mod for Carrier Vacuum. =P

 

 

We already have three power strength mods in the game, no need for a fourth one just yet.

True true, could use efficiency or an additional effect like knock-down chance or something?

Edited September 4, 2015 by Greatheart

[Fifield]

Actually makes the game more balanced... Imaging if blind rage didn't have negative efficiency... You'd have frames with 175% efficiency and 284% power strength spamming ultimates every three seconds instead of using weapons.

 

Can't tell if you're joking.  This is exactly how the game is now.

 

If you aren't joking, your argument is just plain illogical.  We aren't forced to used Blind Rage et al.

 

They introduced nightmare mods for 2 reasons: To make us be able to fight tougher enemies, and to stop something from becoming to overwhelming.

Without nightmare mods you can only increase things to a maximum of 55% more ( primed cont) and most abilities only get effective for end game at around 200% Do you wanna go back to the days where level 30 enemies posed a threat to you? or do you wanna be able to contend with level 100+?

 

Oh you're not joking.

 

Yes, because there's absolutely no other way of balancing gameplay </sarcasm>.

Yes. Corrupted mods enable personalized builds, encourages players to test many builds and use the most optional build that suits themselves. DE made a lot of people happy by introducing them. 

 

Each of my three reasons is better than each of your three reasons.

[Unholyrequiem]

This mod idea isn't very balanced imo

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Can't tell if you're joking.  This is exactly how the game is now.

 

 

Except it isn't. Im one fore details. Without blind rage and arcane helms your max power is around 185% And most frames need more then that to really be viable late game.

 

With blind rage the max amount of power efficiency you can have is 135% and with both these builds you have no duration on your frame.

 

It becomes balanced as no frame can have max range max str and max efficiency. Something is gotta give and you cant have a frame perfect in all areas. You either lose duration efficiency or your frame becomes a glass cannon. It is more balanced as it now as there is a constant tradeoff with everything.

 

Balance = tradeoffs

Examples:

Max range = less power str

Max str = less efficiency/less duration

max efficiency = less duration/unable to use max damage

max duration = less range

 

Unbalanced would look like this

Max range = no negative effect

max damage = no negative effect

max efficiency = no negative effect

max duration = no negative effect

 

if the game was unbalanced people could max every stat. Because the game is balanced, they can maybe pick 2

[Fifield]

Except it isn't. Im one fore details. Without blind rage and arcane helms your max power is around 185% And most frames need more then that to really be viable late game.

 

Name one currently viable warframe that would no longer be viable without corrupted power mods in lategame.  I'm pretty sure there's only one

 

In fact, by removing all the corrupted power mods, you stop the CC frames being so overpowered and thus make more warframes viable.

 

They should have put in mods like [+20% range, +20% duration] instead.  Like Vigor, only useful instead of the underpowered piece of junk that is.

 

It's probably too much trouble to remove them now.  Mesa is heavily dependent on Strength and Efficiency for example and would need to be rebalanced (not that he is currently).

 

But I do know we don't need more of these badly-thought-out corrupted mods.

 

Balance = tradeoffs

 

Making three skills useless in order to make one overpowered is a form of balance but a stupid one.  It's like saying 'travel = spacehopper'

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Fifield

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

 

 

Making three skills useless in order to make one overpowered is a form of balance but a stupid one.  It's like saying 'travel = spacehopper'

 

 

Not sure what you are talking about, Frost benefits from power strength from all his abilities. all others are optional and you can still use all effectively, range helps all of em and or efficiency

You make avalanche powerful everything gets stronger.

Excal works just fine with all of his. all his abilities work in tandem just fine

Rhino with duration and strength is the most effective with all his abilities. Duration helps roar rhino charge and rhino stomp strength helps all four equally

Range and duration/str makes banshee awesome with all of her abilities

Nova strongly benefits from from duration and str. every ability gets stronger off those

Trin with duration and str makes all abilities good and can be immortal

 

Most frames can benefit their ult and other abilities. Mesa benefits her first ability if she builds the standard mesa build.

You are too busy hating on mesa to realize other frames are in a good place. cc frames have a place in the game. without them nobody survives any enemies past 55 as you get swarmed. Nullifiers ignore your cc anyways. 

 

four types of frames, 

Dps -- sayrn/mesa/excal

support --- trin/equinox/limbo

Tank --- valkyr/chroma/frost/

CC --- nyx/nova/vaubun/loki

 

Also you may or may not have noticed... this is warframe. Not call of duty. Warframes are supposed to feel powerful. its kinda the whole point. You fight stronger and stronger enemies till you can no longer fight. Thats the game. If you don't like it go play something else

[(PSN)IDrewABox]

Hydroid will love this idea, considering too much range is horrible for him and his damage is not so great.

[Fifield]

Not sure what you are talking about

 

You know exactly what I'm talking about.  Giving a warframe super power strength so it can instakill all enemies on a map, whilst reducing the range etc making some of its other skills useless...

 

People complain about only having 5 slots on their guns.   That's better than warframes with only 1 ability.

 

Also you may or may not have noticed... this is warframe. Not call of duty. Warframes are supposed to feel powerful. its kinda the whole point. You fight stronger and stronger enemies till you can no longer fight. Thats the game. If you don't like it go play something else

 

Err, I thought it was about being space ninja. Also, you don't get to define what the game is, the devs do.

 

Lastly, you should feel powerful for using skill, not P4TW.

[ChargeBeam]

 

 

 

In fact, by removing all the corrupted power mods, you stop the CC frames being so overpowered and thus make more warframes viable.

 

 

 

 

But I do know we don't need more of these badly-thought-out corrupted mods.

 

 

I read these two lines and laughed.

 

1. By removing the current corrupted power mods, you DO stop the Cc frames being so overpowered and make more Frames viable, but you forget that suddenly we won't be able to go to wave 40 or 60.

All it would do is increase the grind. Which we don't need.

 

2. Many would beg to differ on that point. We don't have nearly enough to round out our choices in what we want to give up for something else. While, yes, they would have to balance the stats on something like +strength -range, there are more Warframes out there that would benefit from this than you think.

 

 

You know exactly what I'm talking about.  Giving a warframe super power strength so it can instakill all enemies on a map, whilst reducing the range etc making some of its other skills useless...

 

Err, I thought it was about being space ninja. Also, you don't get to define what the game is, the devs do.

 

Lastly, you should feel powerful for using skill, not P4TW.

 

1. You forgot that they'll balance the mod, and it won't be -10% range +200% strength. I will also point out that yes, for the most part you DO need around 150% or higher power strength to have most abilites effect level 40+ enemies at a reasonable rate.

 

2. We do get to define what this game BECOMES, but not what it is. Right now this game IS you being a space ninja and fighting stronger and stronger enemies until you can't fight anymore.

Or rather, it's fighting the RNG until it breaks your sanity.

 

3. It's hard to implement actual skill into a multiplayer game unless you do it in how you use a weapon or, in this case, warframe. Adding another mod would arguably increase the skill potential of many people as a whole swathe of new builds would appear.

 

 

 

I chuckled again because you fail to realize that more flexibility in builds = more potential for new and exciting ways to use your warframe abilities.

 

In no way do these corrupted mods restrict a Warframe to just pressing 4. True that many can either go for a press 4 build or a 1-2-3 and no 4 build right now (*coughcoughMesacoughcough*), what many people run into is that soon enough the power of that 4 falls off, and suddenly a 1-2-3 build seems all the more better.

The biggest problem in this, though, is getting to the point the 4 falls off. If it's falling off at Wave 40 and you couldn't have gotten there without the 4, of course you'll build for 4. It gets you farther into the RNG. But if it's falling off at Wave 20 and the 1-2-3 build is getting you farther into the game than Wave 20, people will suddenly cry for a buff to that 4 ability, or something to make it relevant once again.

 

What they did with Frost was great. They streamlined his mod choices so you could use all 4 of his skills with the same mods.

This is both good and bad because:

Good, It encourages a singular build. Using all abilities.

Bad, It encourages a single build. No flexibility beyond that.

 

 

Warframes rely on stats so much that we might as well introduce more corrupted mods.

+1 OP.

[Tenedranox]

Maybe add a corrupted mod for every combination and decrease the value the corrupted mods give, so u can optimize ur builds as u want, but it doesnt get overpowered. Or add the feature that only 3 mods with the same benefit can be build in.

[Fifield]

1. By removing the current corrupted power mods, you DO stop the Cc frames being so overpowered and make more Frames viable, but you forget that suddenly we won't be able to go to wave 40 or 60.

 

Oh you mean we won't have to wait an hour to get the challenge we want?

 

1. You forgot that they'll balance the mod, and it won't be -10% range +200% strength. I will also point out that yes, for the most part you DO need around 150% or higher power strength to have most abilites effect level 40+ enemies at a reasonable rate.

 

You mean we might have to use skill?

 

I chuckled again because you fail to realize that more flexibility in builds = more potential for new and exciting ways to use your warframe abilities.

 

No it's just more P4TW -- a broken metagame which the community whine about when DE try to fix their mistakes from 2 years ago.

 

I already outlined a better way to do it.  Your point is redundant.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Fifield

[ChargeBeam]

Oh you mean we won't have to wait an hour to get the challenge we want?

 

Yep! But as you seem to be picking over my entire argument here, we won't wait for the challenge as it comes faster.

For many people, the challenge in this game is fighting the RNG to get what you want. This will increase that, and you skipped over that entire point.

 

 

 

You mean we might have to use skill?

 

What is skill in this game? Tell me.

Is it the ability to adapt to your situation? Is it the ability to kill high level enemies with what's given to you?

If it's the first one, more mods leads to more adaptability.

If it's the second one, refer to what I first said on this post. It'll just be more RNG in return for an earlier challenge.

 

 

No it's just more P4TW -- a broken metagame which the community whine about when DE try to fix their mistakes from 2 years ago.

 

I already outlined a better way to do it.  Your point is redundant.

 

Adding more mods to try and make other skills more viable than just doing P4TW? That's redundant?

 

You outlined it by bringing in mods that just have positives. This just leads to us being more powerful anyways.

Why? Suddenly that idea of +150% power strength, +150% range, +150% efficiency, +150% duration seems all the more reachable.

Yes, as I said they would balance them, but this is in no way a good idea to fix the so called "P4TW" mentality you think the entire game revolves around.

 

 

 

The OP's suggestion is inherently broken for his situation as negative range wouldn't effect Peacemaker as he seemed to believe. Do note that a lower range would, for Mesa's situation, harm one of her main survivability skills: Shooting Gallery.

 

While for Mesa specifically it would encourage P4TW more, I would love to see this on Warframes like Frost (smaller bubble, stronger bubble), Volt (larger shield), Valkyr (higher strength), Rhino (making Roar more centralized and having Iron Skin stronger), Mirage (making her doppelgangers stronger), Hydroid (centralizing many of his abilities while making them stronger), and Equinox (stronger and more focused Provoke and Pacify) as each of these Warframes can benefit from higher strength and lower range on most generalized kits for them.

And most of these generalized kits aren't P4TW.

[----Dante----]

yes we dont have enough of Press4towin builds

DE really need to look at those builds cause this is getting out of hand, now players even ask for mods to make it even more broken lol

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

While reading all the replies to this post it is crystal clear to me that people have never used the "P4TW" frames. I think They hate them for not knowing their function or what their weaknesses are. Sure a frame may not be suited to you. But P4TW is largely only in the weaker missions.

Let's say I'm farming something, it drops in a t4 rotation c, I'm going to try to last an hour solo.

Aaaaaand time freeze. Here imma pause time and describe what happens depending on my chosen frame

I select Mesa. My initial 25 min are a cake walk, my weapons shred everything my abilities destroy things and any small damage I took was healed by life strike. However at the 28 minute mark peacemaker becomes unusable, nullifiers are protecting their more dangerous allies and I am forced to run and gun as peacekeeper would be suicidal. After this point only defensive skills become viable. I use shatter shield as much as possible and I last as long as my weapons ammo does. I do not last long enough to get the part I need.
This scenario repeats itself with any dps frame. Sayrn would have a similar experience but would use molt to draw away enemy fire.

The only frame that could maybe perform better is an excal as his exalted blade can get rid of nullifiers shields, his radial blind helps him defensively and offensively and his speed keeps him from getting torn up.

Spamming four to win would not work here as nullifiers would shrug off your attempts to win just by warframe nukes.

Let's say I choose frost

I start to slowdown at the 35 min mark with enemy health scaling, however my snowglobe keeps me protected. And I have placed others at enemy choke points to slow them down. Avalanche reducing enemy armor helps me clear and defeat the tougher enemies. Since snowglobe is immune to nullifiers I pick them off and deal with the greater threats. I potentially last till 60 after using ammo restores/energy restores but my shield protects me and my avalanche helps deal with armor.

Alas my point ---- pressing four to win only exists in one area and that being low -- mid tier enemies (specifically grineer) and is ineffective for anything later as enemy scales past the point you can one shot nuke them. Nullifiers in particular destroy press four to win as they absorb direct nukes and require Continued damage to bring them down.

Dps frames like sayrn Mesa and other have their place in the game. They do damage they kill things that's their job. But they can't rely on P4TW for anything in harder difficulty because nullifiers, ancient healers or the enemy health scaling. You are allergic to P4TW only cause you don't do harder missions where dps like Mesa and sayrn need support. They need frames to do things like crowd control or tanks to take down nullifiers or need warframe buffs to be able to continue dealing damage.

I challenge anyone who thinks P4TW still exists to do the nightmare trial and try to beat it with a dps frame like Mesa and sayrn and only using your fourth ability. You will use up a bazillion energy restores and end up dead

Don't use Frames like nova banshee mirage and Loki trinity or any frame that might have a secret second useful hidden ability.

And for the original op
--- the mod idea is a good one, we need more corrupted mods not less. I'd like another mod with increased range or a different efficiency mod as well

[Fifield]

For many people, the challenge in this game is fighting the RNG to get what you want. This will increase that, and you skipped over that entire point.

 

I was talking about the fun challenge...  The grind is an unfortunate consequence of F2P PvE games.

 

What is skill in this game? Tell me.

Is it the ability to adapt to your situation? Is it the ability to kill high level enemies with what's given to you?

If it's the first one, more mods leads to more adaptability.

If it's the second one, refer to what I first said on this post. It'll just be more RNG in return for an earlier challenge.

 

Skill is the same in any game.  It is the same in any sport.  It is the exact opposite of P4TW.  It is doing things that other players know how to do and want to do but cannot do.   It is using the abilities as the developers intended and finding the game so easy that there's no need to P4TW.  It is taking weaker guns and frames to missions, not spamming skills and still getting the most damage, the most headshots, the most revives and the fewest deaths.

 

Adding more mods to try and make other skills more viable than just doing P4TW? That's redundant?

 

Corrupted warframe mods are the direct cause of P4TW.

 

You outlined it by bringing in mods that just have positives. This just leads to us being more powerful anyways.

Why? Suddenly that idea of +150% power strength, +150% range, +150% efficiency, +150% duration seems all the more reachable.

Yes, as I said they would balance them, but this is in no way a good idea to fix the so called "P4TW" mentality you think the entire game revolves around.

 

This is a disingenuous argument.  There's nothing wrong with a mod doing +20% range, +20% duration and you know it.

[Fifield]

I challenge anyone who thinks P4TW still exists to do the nightmare trial and try to beat it with a dps frame like Mesa and sayrn and only using your fourth ability. You will use up a bazillion energy restores and end up dead

 

P4TW is not just damage abilities although that exemplifies it.  All overpowered abilities are P4TW.  And that's what everyone uses in Trials.  You just made my argument for me.

[Bhargo]

 

Oh you mean we won't have to wait an hour to get the challenge we want?

 

You mean we might have to use skill?

I already outlined a better way to do it.  Your point is redundant.

 

Less time waiting for the challenge, but also less rewards. Your argument here seems to be more in favor of higher than t4 void.

 

Oh yes, when I use an ability, it does more damage not because of my mods, but because my personal skill. Skill only takes you so far, you aren't getting anywhere in a naked frame.

 

You didn't outline anything other than your own personal opinion and attack anyone who dared to question your supreme authority.