Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[EetNotErn]

The situation wouldn't be all too different honestly, but instead of multishot being on the side of the table as a must have it'd be with the rest of the spare mods that the community has been complaining about for decades that need improvements, because fact of the matter is that this direction isn't good one way or the other. As it is now it's unique but a must, with this change it is just as others mention, a glorified fire rate mod, neither one is all too great a situation to have. 

 

So don't pin this all on "people don't like change" because that's such a crud excuse, people don't like bad changes, which is what this seems like it will chalk up to be, another inferior grade adjustment that does nothing to actually repair the real issues this game has. 

 

 

You can't state your opinion "fact of the matter is this direction isn't a good one"  as a fact and then complain that I'm using a "crud excuse" to "pin it all on people who don't like change". Quit pretending that your subjective views are facts.

[Invalid_Infinity]

You can't state your opinion "fact of the matter is this direction isn't a good one"  as a fact and then complain that I'm using a "crud excuse" to "pin it all on people who don't like change". Quit pretending that your subjective views are facts.

Except your view is also subjective.

 

Hypocrite. 

[Fyos]

Instead of nerfing the % to make it less efficient damage boost per point (and encourage better decision making), you go and turn it into an abstract fire rate upgrade.

 

Way to go.

 

Thank you 'game design' forum babies for complaining until we got a nerf.

[Lord_Xenon]

So with new mod a Hek would draw 3 ammo and 1 left? o.o

 

Seems very well thought out.

 

No hek would consume 4 ammo instead of 1. Empting your full magazine with just 1 shot. So save it for really tough enemies or try spending every shot reloading.

[(XBOX)Pumba315]

@Pumba: With all your logic, you made one error:

 

320% multishot mean 420% pellets out. If the hek shoot 10 pellets base, it would have with such a number then 42! pellets.

180% multishot mean 280% bullets out. 1 bullet will mean next to 3 bullets.

Darn, you're right, I wasn't mathing correctly. My mistake! :P

[Kylar]

And its devolved into name calling

/thread

[EetNotErn]

Except your view is also subjective.

 

Hypocrite. 

 

 

Show me where I claimed my view was fact. Pointing out how someone is calling their opinion a fact is not hypocrisy.

 

Dishonest so and so...

Edited September 4, 2015 by EetNotErn

[Azamagon]

I hate the change, for several reasons:

 

1) They blamed it on "it's a bug". Took them long enough... Despite Scattered Justice and similar mods... Yeah sure, a "bug".

2) Instead of making a mandatory mod into an interesting option, they make it an unreliable pseudo-RoF-mod. Or in other words, make it horrible.

3) Balancing (as in, nerfing) the damage-increasing mods AND giving us (several) Exilus slots for weapons would've been a better way to add choice.

4) This option is simply NOT thought through enough. Pistol multishot and Scattered Justice come in mind...

 

Instead of this "90% to become a 2x fire rate mod" (which is what it will become pretty much), they could've done something like this:

 

1) Enemy scaling is made less severe

2) Multishot mods are down to 30%-ish chance (still not consuming ammo), along other heavy rebalancing of damage-boosting mods

3) All Weapons (and Warframes etc) have access to 2 or 3 Exilus slots for free! (Unlock a 3rd/4th with Simaris' Exilus item). Exilus mods used in these dedicated Exilus-slots have a seperate modding-point pool (1 per level, so 30 points at max level, unaffected by Reactor/Catalyst, but can still be forma'd)

 

"More fun, more options". I really think That's what we want.

Not "More useless, more pointless".

Edited September 4, 2015 by Azamagon

[Invalid_Infinity]

Show me where I claimed my view was fact. Pointing out how someone is calling their opinion a fact is not hypocrisy.

 

Dishonest so and so...

I called you a hypocrite because your argument is based off of your opinion and you are also trying to state it as a fact.

 

I am not being dishonest in the least. Perhaps a bit too honest.

[Epicagemo]

Hek with scattering justice or whatever it is will unload its entire clip in one shot lol

[Sziklamester]

I can agree with this but I still think the modding system is just a broken thing what they keep alive because they cannot copy paste from a similar game which handle well the powercreep and the scaling far better than what have in this game.

 

Lowering the chances almost nothing not will make the game more interesting just makes a good option to them making another mods which will run the same cycles.

 

Mod system should go.

 

"Agreed with Azamagon" - the quote menu seems buggy.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Sziklamester

[KillingDyl]

I hate the change, for several reasons:

 

1) They blamed it on "it's a bug". Took them long enough... Despite Scattered Justice and similar mods... Yeah sure, a "bug".

2) Instead of making a mandatory mod into an interesting option, they make it an unreliable pseudo-RoF-mod. Or in other words, make it horrible.

3) Balancing (as in, nerfing) the damage-increasing mods AND giving us (several) Exilus slots for weapons would've been a better way to add choice.

4) This option is simply NOT thought through enough. Pistol multishot and Scattered Justice come in mind...

 

Instead of this "90% to become a 2x fire rate mod" (which is what it will become pretty much), they could've done something like this:

 

1) Enemy scaling is made less severe

2) Multishot mods are down to 30%-ish chance (still not consuming ammo), along other heavy rebalancing of damage-boosting mods

3) All Weapons (and Warframes etc) have access to 2 or 3 Exilus slots for free! (Unlock a 3rd/4th with Simaris' Exilus item). Exilus mods used in these dedicated Exilus-slots have a seperate modding-point pool (1 per level, so 30 points at max level, unaffected by Reactor/Catalyst, but can still be forma'd)

 

"More fun, more options". I really think That's what we want.

Not "More useless, more pointless".

Originally it was a bug, but they decided to keep it a feature, like how coptering was originally a bug but kept as a feature.

[EetNotErn]

I called you a hypocrite because your argument is based off of your opinion and you are also trying to state it as a fact.

 

I am not being dishonest in the least. Perhaps a bit too honest.

 

 

No you are seriously being dishonest because NO WHERE did I ever say my opinion was fact. Show me where I did or shut up.  Now quit being a damn liar.

[Azamagon]

Added thought:

 

The fact they blamed it on a bug, I think it's both partially true and false.

 

It's probably true in that was the INITIAL intention (considering how it functioned in darkSector).

But I feel that they simply "went with the flow", and let it be a doubleshot at no additional cost, because that sounds fun and interesting. Which makes it a false statement now (which is what really matters). Scattered Justice doesn't seem to have been balanced around the ORIGINAL intention, for example. They know how it works. Which makes them into liars, in a sense.

 

EDIT; My gut is also telling me a bunch of small extra things:

 

1) I think a possible extra reason for this change, on top of trying to make multishots in general feel less mandatory - Because Scattered Justice is currently making the regular Hek too much of a sidegrade to Vaykor Hek. If that is true, then why not just nerf it instead??

 

2) And ANOTHER reason I can tell it's looked at now: Multishot for melee. I have this feeling it's gonna be a "multihit while channeling". That makes it a great DPS mod for melee, but at the cost of more energy spent. So, I think the multishot for melee had influence in this "fix" too.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Azamagon

[blasron]

I love how they called this a bug. I called bullS#&$ on this one.

 

For the nerf i just going to put speed trigger in the slot instead of multishot it's going to do the same job but with more accuraty.

 

No really they should re-name multishot for prime speed trigger. XD

[Cubewano]

You can't state your opinion "fact of the matter is this direction isn't a good one"  as a fact and then complain that I'm using a "crud excuse" to "pin it all on people who don't like change". Quit pretending that your subjective views are facts.

I can and I will, because at least my logic at least has some ground while yours appears to have none. But if you can explain to me the positives of this change and how all this is just "boo anti-change" sentiments then by all means dish.

 

 

No you are seriously being dishonest because NO WHERE did I ever say my opinion was fact. Show me where I did or shut up.  Now quit being a damn liar.

Babe, what do you think the phrase "i can guarantee" implies, certainly not that what to follow is some open ended wildly speculative opinion. 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Cubewano

[NeroGrave]

>"Fixed" a 2 year+ "bug"

 

Man, DE sure is jolly groovy and chilling behind the wall called "Beta", so they can effectively change anything at anytime they like while at the same time safe from the backlashes of the players.

 

Next, Serration and Hornet Strikes will be considered bugs too and will be fixed out soon enough as well after players used them over 3 years.

[EetNotErn]

I can and I will, because at least my logic at least has some ground while yours appears to have none. But if you can explain to me the positives of this change and how all this is just "boo anti-change" sentiments then by all means dish.

 

 "My opinion is fact while yours isn't!" 

"My logic is logical but yours isn't!"

 

 

Yeah great arguments.

[Acidulant]

Another reason why this proposes multishot "fix" is a joke is that they said they're considering multi strike on melee

What are you gonna do about that then? Mmmmmm?

Elaborate

[MJ12]

Look, the end result is that weapons are going to still have to run multishot to get the TTKs needed to stay top tier.

 

Compare, for example, the Mk1 Braton and the Braton Prime. The Braton Prime's double damage/shot is what makes it a high-tier weapon that's useful even in T4 voids, while the Mk1 Braton is a low tier trash weapon that everyone recommends you get rid of as soon as possible. So you can either take multishot off, which means you're basically running around with pre-nerf Mk1 weapons, or you can keep Multishot, which means that this is effectively a nerf to the weapons reducing magazine size, ammunition pickup amount, and max ammo by 50% or more.

 

Which means that you're not reducing the number of mandatory mods, you're increasing it, by forcing everyone to run an Ammo Mutator.

 

Really, when you look at it this way, there is no increase in 'choice' that this creates. It just further reduces choice.

[Fyos]

Another reason why this proposes multishot "fix" is a joke is that they said they're considering multi strike on melee

What are you gonna do about that then? Mmmmmm?

Elaborate

 

multistrike costs energy to proc :)))))))

 

don't get mad, it was a bug from 2 years ago :))))))

[Acidulant]

Look, the end result is that weapons are going to still have to run multishot to get the TTKs needed to stay top tier.

Compare, for example, the Mk1 Braton and the Braton Prime. The Braton Prime's double damage/shot is what makes it a high-tier weapon that's useful even in T4 voids, while the Mk1 Braton is a low tier trash weapon that everyone recommends you get rid of as soon as possible. So you can either take multishot off, which means you're basically running around with pre-nerf Mk1 weapons, or you can keep Multishot, which means that this is effectively a nerf to the weapons reducing magazine size, ammunition pickup amount, and max ammo by 50% or more.

Which means that you're not reducing the number of mandatory mods, you're increasing it, by forcing everyone to run an Ammo Mutator.

Really, when you look at it this way, there is no increase in 'choice' that this creates. It just further reduces choice.

This guy gets it.

Nothing changes, you just have to reload 2-4x times more often and pop more ammo restores

[EetNotErn]

Babe, what do you think the phrase "i can guarantee" implies, certainly not that what to follow is some open ended wildly speculative opinion. 

 

Well, "Babe", look at corrupted mods that have drawbacks attached to them. You don't see the pitchforks and angry mobs screaming and whining about how those have drawbacks, do you? It's basic human psychology.  If you give something and take it away people get far angrier than if you didn't give it to them in the first place.

 

I rest my case.

Edited September 4, 2015 by EetNotErn

[Hatzeputt]

How about everyone takes a chill pill and we wait and see how this plays out instead of being preemptively butt hurt and on each others throats.

Since no one knows EXACTLY what DE has planned you can troll and ship toast all you want, it is a wasted effort. Save your trolling and ship toasting for the time when this goes live, at least then you have a reason for it.

[EetNotErn]

Exactly. No one knows how this is all going to play out. Yet people are pretending that they know everything and that their opinions and speculations are fact.