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Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

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They should just convert multi-shot into fire rate mods. At least then we will have more control over how many bullets we waste with careful tap firing.

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its not bugged, its just a stupid mod, just like serration and all other damage increase mods.

all those serration like mods just kill build diversity.

 

and the exilus slots are just band-aids, exilus slots aren't a true solution for mod diversity, realize that exilus slots are a bad fix for the broken modding system.

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Multishot is a must in almost every good build, in this way hungry ammo weapons are gonna be almost unusable with it.

Options:

1. You use it but you basically run out of ammo after 5 enemies killed

2. You don't use it but you do literally half of the damage

It's an implicit damage nerf

^ and ammo efficiency nerf too...because whther you use multiS#&$ or not you still have to empty your clip to kill an enemy

Multishot is supposed to be the bullet fragmenting into smaller bullets T>T Not cost more ammo.

There's a reason why they called one of them "SPLIT CHAMBER" so the bullet would "split" into 2 or more frags

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An extra solution...

 

Have it consume the extra ammunition from the ammo reserve, and not the loaded magazine.

 

i.e. A Soma Prime with 200 clip and 800 reserve would fire 200 times, with 380 pellets, but at the start of the reload, would have 620 in the reserve.

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More build variety? Check.

Less weapon variety? Check.

 

As good as DE are, I don't expect any tweaks to ammo hungry weapons to be of much use. Ammo will just become scarcer, certain weapons will just be unusable (either due to lowered damage from removing the mod(s) or never having any ammo) and ability spam will become even stronger.

 

Yes, this game needed a major rebalance in terms of scaling, damage and the mod system - but it needs to be done all at the same time! If we get this change now, a few other mods nerfed towards the end of the year and only heavy grineer units rebalanced some time in March... we'll have long periods of even worse balance.

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Uhh I already stated why many times. Because NOT ALL THE DETAILS ARE IN YET. You have no idea how DE is going to rebalance the weapons, the enemies, ammo drops, etc etc. Yet you pretend that your doom and gloom scenario is fact. 

 

That's actually the most worrying part. Given how haphazadly they said "oh yeah we're going to have rebalance some guns", gives the impression that not even DE has a clue on how to do this, and clearly shows they haven't put in a fraction of the thought needed to actually pull this off.

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Also, Multi-shot may have worked differently in Dark Sector, but Dark Sector is also a completely different type of game than Warframe. Dark Sector had a cover mechanic. Dark Sector only had you facing 2 to 5 enemies at any time. I would argue Dark Sector is closer to Mass Effect in terms of gameplay, than Warframe.

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Just remove 'mandatory' mods and increase flat DPS to compensate. Now players have room to experiment. Everybody's happy.

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this is a great idea, the only Error i see is this:

Make it consume an extra shot upon proc, pretty much making it into another (unreliable) fire rate mod of sorts.

as multishot mods add status as well, not just damage, however, if the status increase is applied with option 1 to the extra shot only, I`d be a damn happy

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Every mods kill the diversity because every mods in the current systems made against enemies. Need damage increasing mods to be viable that weapon on high levels because the scaling is bad. Same with the utility mods which are bad but in overall those mods needs also for a stat changing.

 

All this makes never ending cycles and my suggestion to remove the mod system totally from game and buff the weapons into viable levels where we can just make minor-small changes on our weapons.

 

The enemy scaling need to be done without everything is just useless talk.

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I'm just worried for shotguns...

 

The Hek is capable of 300%+ Multishot.

 

With a magazine of 4, and a 300% increase in ammo drain/shot that would leave you able to just fire once!

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+1

You made valid points there. I agree that multishot should be nerfed but the game will be harder with this, make scaling of enemies less steep so we can keep up with them without multishot. Multishot should be considered as and option. I think that it should add pallets and devide damage betwean them, not add damage at all. It shouldnt consume extra ammo. It would buff low critchance weapons for crit an proc. Also it would be more efective against nullies. Your modding ideas are just exelant. DE hire this guy.

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That's actually the most worrying part. Given how haphazadly they said "oh yeah we're going to have rebalance some guns", gives the impression that not even DE has a clue on how to do this, and clearly shows they haven't put in a fraction of the thought needed to actually pull this off.

 

Seriously? Or maybe they just forgot to mention it because there's a lot to talk about in a stream and it's hard to keep track of in front of an audience. I just don't get why everyone is always jumping to the worst assumptions about everything. 

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They should just convert multi-shot into fire rate mods. At least then we will have more control over how many bullets we waste with careful tap firing.

I already have a few ROF mods plus the multi shot on my Kohm and it's still lack luster. Don't think another ROF mod will solve what this breaks this breaks especially for low mag capacity weapons.

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If you want to nerf Multishots, yep its ok because we are killing just by one shot, which is boring.
But making it cost more ammo, it will be terrible.
What about then with Vectis? It have just one bullet in magazine, so it will be nerfed to death. And the new mod for Vectis prime will have no sense.

Not better is to nerf multishot to the same way as Archwing have?
Split Chamber from 90% to 30%
Hells Chamber from 120% to 40%
Barrel Difusion from 120% to 40%
Lethal torent from 60% to 20%
Scattered Justice from 200% to 66%
Just 3:1

I think it will be better than making multishot costs more ammo.
If more ammo consuption, then Hek with scattered justice with one shot will use all 4 shots from magazine, making hek one shot magazine. And pistols will lose 3 ammo per shot, and with fire rate it will make Synoid gammacore drain 3x more ammo *o* Whaaaa?! Its already have hell ammo consumption.

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Also, Multi-shot may have worked differently in Dark Sector, but Dark Sector is also a completely different type of game than Warframe. Dark Sector had a cover mechanic. Dark Sector only had you facing 2 to 5 enemies at any time.

it`s not just that, DS didn`t have parkour, even jump, and it had riddles, Warframe is mainly more a rusher game type, play style is fast, and seconds count, I only disagree with you at the 2-5 enemies together, in the later chapters I have seen 10+ infested on me together

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I find it absolutely hilarious that the people who asked for a change to damage mods being mandatory will get their wish in the form of Multishot actually consuming more ammo thereby making Multishot mods no longer mandatory.

 

Hilarious because I'm pretty sure what these people wanted was to do away with 'mandatory mods' to up their pewpew/Dakka.

 

Edit: typos

 

This.  People just wanted them to make the mandatory mods "built-in" or something so they could continue to min-max their builds with no drawbacks.  Now there's actually going to be a choice.  Besides, you can always just use a DPS mod or another element.  Or something like fire-rate or reload speed.

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its not bugged, its just a stupid mod, just like serration and all other damage increase mods.

all those serration like mods just kill build diversity.

 

and the exilus slots are just band-aids, exilus slots aren't a true solution for mod diversity, realize that exilus slots are a bad fix for the broken modding system.

 

Just remove 'mandatory' mods and increase flat DPS to compensate. Now players have room to experiment. Everybody's happy.

"Mandatory" mods are ok, imo. In essence at least, but not in the numbers (the numbers are simply too big).

 The reason I think they are ok, is because they give a form of progression.

 

That's why I love the exilus modslots! They allow progression mods AND utility/QoL mods to exist in the same system.

 

this is a great idea, the only Error i see is this:

as multishot mods add status as well, not just damage, however, if the status increase is applied with option 1 to the extra shot only, I`d be a damn happy

Multishot, if consuming extra ammo, is as much of a status-increaser as a fire rate mod is... just saying.

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Option 1 is the only way to go with this. A huge nerf to the mods and thats it.

Because this not only will become a crappy fire rate mod like you said, but the logic behind this mod will become DUMB AS ****(yes I know its a game where logic doesnt matter but come on, logic here matters)

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Seriously? Or maybe they just forgot to mention it because there's a lot to talk about in a stream and it's hard to keep track of in front of an audience. I just don't get why everyone is always jumping to the worst assumptions about everything. 

 

If they did just forget it reinforces my point that DE isn't taking this as seriously as it needs to be.

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There are two things they can do to Split Chamber, Barrel Diffusion+Lethal Torrent and Hell's Chamber to not make it out to be another form of fire rate increase:

 

1.  Mod guarantees an extra shot on every shot once applied, but there's a percent chance to NOT consume that extra round.  Like Split Chamber might be default 6%, capped at 36% chance to not consume a round for the extra shot.  In the case of secondaries, Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent each apply one additional shot, and their percentiles only count for their own additional shot.  So while Barrel Diffusion's extra shot might have an 8%-48% chance to not consume an extra round, Lethal Torrent's extra shot might have only a 4%-24% chance to not consume an extra round.  They don't create a lump sum towards negating the consumption of an extra round or rounds, they simply apply individually.  So sometimes a player might spend 2 rounds but shoot 3, sometimes consume 1 but shoot 3, and sometimes consume 3 and shoot 3.

 

2.  They nerf the bonus chance considerably to within the 30% range.  Something low enough that it might as well be another form of critical hit, but with additional chances for actual critical and status shots as a result.

 

 

 

Really, DE isn't concerned with the minute/wave 40+ bit of enemy scaling.  They never really balanced anything around that range, and they don't have to.  Infinite enemy scaling is meant to beat a Tenno eventually.  Whether that happens against level 60, 100, or 200 enemies is irrelevant, it's simply an expectations players should accept and with balancing tweaks and new weapons/frames, the limits a Tenno and go to will be constantly in flux, but there were never any promises of a hard line beyond what's available via the star chart.  My TL;DR advice for those upset over the loss of damage and concerns with enemy scaling and how this will hurt them in endless modes is this: Get over it.

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Since we want less mandatory mods can we nerf corrosive projection?

 

And Energy Siphon, too! While we're at it, can we have 'restore' type gear items nerfed as well?!

 

THANK YOU!

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i think the damage should be divided out on depend on bullets per shot, ex: a weapon deals 100 damage with 1 bullet and i equip a 100% multishot, so now each bullet will deal 50 instead of 100 while the weapon itself hasn't lost or gained any damage, it has gotten some utility instead.

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Multishot, if consuming extra ammo, is as much of a status-increaser as a fire rate mod is... just saying.

not if status is per round, then the pellets will share the chance

also, no, it`s not a RoF increase, RoF makes u fire rounds with less delay in between them, multishot makes u fire more rounds together, I fire 2 rounds, wait until jam line is out then I fire again, increased Damage per shot, not per second, like fire rate

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Well, "Babe", look at corrupted mods that have drawbacks attached to them. You don't see the pitchforks and angry mobs screaming and whining about how those have drawbacks, do you? It's basic human psychology.  If you give something and take it away people get far angrier than if you didn't give it to them in the first place.

 

I rest my case.

The issue isn't mods having drawbacks, it is that this particular change does nothing to benefit anything, it is genuinely nerfing a unique mechanic for no payout. Players wanted (and will still want) DE to fix the current dillema with weapons that is essential modding (those nifty direct damage mods), which this change does nothing whatsoever for. It makes another mod underwhelming instead of making everything else preform up to par. 

 

With corrupted either they are okay and have benefits that are greater than their cons, or they don't and aren't used. Any of the mods that aren't used are in the same bin as the other utility mods that the community have been complaining about not being useful enough and needing re-balancing. Maybe each corrupted mod doesn't get an individual call out for being an issue or not, but that's because they're all part of a pretty singular problem. For multishot they are essentially making a change put it in this bin as well, so naturally the community is going to call de out strongly for taking an effective mod and making it just like something the community has already aggressively been speaking out against. 

 

Not only is the act making another problematic mod, but it is also completely disregarding all the people who asked for and offered solutions for the actual problem. 

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