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Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]


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Did absolutely nobody hear them mention that weapons are going to be rebalanced with the multishot change? It's been a while since I've read this much unjustified indignation over them fixing something that was a bug to begin with. Do you honestly think they're going to take nothing else into account with such a dramatic change to how we output damage?

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One example out of many a standard does not make.  Further, it's a game mode intentionally designed to be hard and ran with a group.  You're expected to have 8 Tenno in mission - try for some coordinated focus fire.  Literally every other mission/mode can be run solo.  Effortlessly.  Further, if raids do become too difficult, they can always readjust enemy levels within those raids.  It's well within their abilities to do so.

 

You're serious, aren't you? Jesus, have you even played raids? Coordinated focus fire. Yeah. Okay. I'll totally snipe down those bombards I can't see from the other end of the room who are also obscured by terrain. Yes. Of course! Brilliant! I'll definitely kill those manics menacing my teammates from the other end of the map while I'm standing on a pad that's draining my energy, while said manics are also obscured by terrain. It's not like I can get off the pad if I don't want the rest of the team to die or us to fail the mission because the hijack core hit lightning. Lolol.

 

And every other mission can be done solo? Sure. That's a good thing, for those who have crappy connections or who just don't wanna deal with other tenno getting in the way. But effortlessly? Hahahaha, what are you talking about. Enemy DPS output is such that you'll be completely screwed if you make one mistake after about 30-40 minutes in T4S. Effortlessly, hahahaha. That right there tells me that you don't actually play this content you're trying to indirectly nerf into the ground.

 

well, they arent fixing this so they can fix the broken enemy scale.

we always gonna have bad balancing and bad enemy scaling, would rather see all those damage mods removed, so the game can be properly balanced, and so we dont need mandatory mods to reach high levels.

 

sadly even this fix is not the ultimate solution, but im glad DE is looking into it, let them break their game as they do over and over, sooner or later they will realize they need to make real decisions and real solutions.

cause we all know DE and their bad band aids, seems they need to fail allot to finally get it right.

 

So. Basically. You're okay with making high level content virtually impossible unless you're god tier for player skill until DE maybe, at some nebulous point in the future finally gets around to reworking enemy scaling?

 

I have a counterproposal: You stop defending terrible changes like this and start asking DE to address enemy scaling, so that they can then afford to nerf player damage outputs without utterly shafting the players who play beyond level 40.

You can't have a balanced game, you can't even approach a balanced game without addressing enemy scaling. Nerfing player damage until you do that is just going to be punching players in the face with a furax with bits of broken glass glued to it. Nerfing player damage after that's done could well work swimmingly, but if you go out of order you break the game in bad and, worse for DE, unprofitable ways that drive off droves of customers.

Edited by Cpl_Facehugger
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Did absolutely nobody hear them mention that weapons are going to be rebalanced with the multishot change? It's been a while since I've read this much unjustified indignation over them fixing something that was a bug to begin with. Do you honestly think they're going to take nothing else into account with such a dramatic change to how we output damage?

 

Do you honestly believe that they're capable of reworking 151 weapons(Current number for Primary and Secondary combined), while currently 20-30 of those are the only ones that'd be viable to take into an endless mission if you're going past 20, with almost all of those requiring multishot to be able to kill stuff efficiently?

Edited by Crimor
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You're serious, aren't you? Jesus, have you even played raids? Coordinated focus fire. Yeah. Okay. I'll totally snipe down those bombards I can't see from the other end of the room who are also obscured by terrain. Yes. Of course! Brilliant! I'll definitely kill those manics menacing my teammates from the other end of the map while I'm standing on a pad that's draining my energy, while said manics are also obscured by terrain. It's not like I can get off the pad if I don't want the rest of the team to die or us to fail the mission because the hijack core hit lightning. Lolol.

 

And every other mission can be done solo? Sure. That's a good thing, for those who have crappy connections or who just don't wanna deal with other tenno getting in the way. But effortlessly? Hahahaha, what are you talking about. Enemy DPS output is such that you'll be completely screwed if you make one mistake after about 30-40 minutes in T4S. Effortlessly, hahahaha. That right there tells me that you don't actually play this content you're trying to indirectly nerf into the ground.

 

 

So. Basically. You're okay with making high level content virtually impossible unless you're god tier for player skill until DE maybe, at some nebulous point in the future finally gets around to reworking enemy scaling?

 

I have a counterproposal: You stop defending terrible changes like this and start asking DE to address enemy scaling, so that they can then afford to nerf player damage outputs without utterly shafting the players who play beyond level 40.

You can't have a balanced game, you can't even approach a balanced game without addressing enemy scaling. Nerfing player damage until you do that is just going to be punching players in the face with a furax with bits of broken glass glued to it. Nerfing player damage after that's done could well work swimmingly, but if you go out of order you break the game in bad and, worse for DE, unprofitable ways that drive off droves of customers.

Thank you someone who bloody gets it 

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----

 

 

This is the right way to fix scaling in this game.

 

the multishot nerf is just a small part of it.

With proper enemy and weapon scaling, things like serration and multishot would be more like choices based on weapon/playstyle instead of being simply required in every weapon.

 

 

Something like this, if we take warframe health/shield scaling.

from 100 at rank 0 to 300 at rank 30

 

and we apply this to weapons:

A braton prime could go from 12 damage at rank 0 to 36 damage at rank 30, then have serration be a 3% increase per rank, so its +33% at R10 but its an additive bonus now based on the current weapon damage.

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I rather them change it now and fix it later then talk about changing it and never getting around with it. At-least this will MAKE the DE have to change stuff this will be the change that makes the forums blow up until the DE HAS to change enemy scaling.

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I rather them change it now and fix it later then talk about changing it and never getting around with it. At-least this will MAKE the DE have to change stuff this will be the change that makes the forums blow up until the DE HAS to change enemy scaling.

 

You know what something like that does to players?

 

It drives them to seek greener pastures. I don't want DE take the risk of driving off such a huge part of their player base. It could very well kill the game.

 

Instead, I want to see them address the enemy scaling issues. Then, preferably, the weapon issues at the same time or shortly after.

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well its MULTI SHOT.. of course it will consume ammo..., multishot right now are just magical bullets that just popout of your magazine and it doesnt make sense at all...

 

This is a game about ninja space wizards that has dragons, paladins, super nurses, living clouds of deadly gas and where the same kind of ammo works for sniper rifles, rocket launches, grenades, buzzsaws and lasers. Making sense is kind of secondary, if you think about it.

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This is the right way to fix scaling in this game.

 

the multishot nerf is just a small part of it.

With proper enemy and weapon scaling, things like serration and multishot would be more like choices based on weapon/playstyle instead of being simply required in every weapon.

 

 

Something like this, if we take warframe health/shield scaling.

from 100 at rank 0 to 300 at rank 30

 

and we apply this to weapons:

A braton prime could go from 12 damage at rank 0 to 36 damage at rank 30, then have serration be a 3% increase per rank, so its +33% at R10 but its an additive bonus now based on the current weapon damage.

Serration has always worked in the method you describe, the bonus is just bigger. 

 

Your solution wouldn't work unless there was a severe reworking of enemy health and scaling. It would put the Braton prime at about 50 damage per shot, and would still leave Serration as a required mod.

Edited by D1398342003
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I'll take "what is raids for 500, Littleman."

 

Raids start at level 70 and get to level 110 or thereabouts. DE is obliged to make it so that I and my team of 7 other tenno can complete raids for so long as gameplay enhancing tools are available solely from that content. Meganerfing multishot in this way makes that significantly more difficult. To put it mildly.

 

So no, DE needs to fix their broken enemy scaling if they want to nerf player damage, because right now the damage and CC players have access to is the only thing letting us keep our heads above water here in DE approved endgame content.

 

The fact that this nerf is the final nail in teh coffin of all automatic pistols is just the topping on the poo sandwich, not the whole sandwich.

i don't know which raids you are playing but mine don't involve much shooting if at all. after running the dam thing 1000 times, sometimes out of boredom i go and slice one or two enemies with a sword. yea, it might take 30 sec more to kill Hek... oh no! 

 

besides.. i don't get why so many are scared of challenge....casuals. its like nerfing multi shot would change much of how the game plays. i encourage you to remove multishot from your guns and test it.

Edited by egypt
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This is a game about ninja space wizards that has SUITS BASED AROUND dragons, paladins, super nurses, living clouds of deadly gas and where the same kind of ammo BOX works for sniper rifles, rocket launches, grenades, buzzsaws and lasers. Making sense is kind of secondary, if you think about it.

Fixed.
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I don't want to get into it, especially since we don't even have the changes, but here's my opinion: I think the change will introduce a whole new host of problems, likely more widespread and elaborate than the current problems without even fixing the problem in a meaningful way. I think it would be smarter to wait and develop a more durable solution.

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ehh? well at least i can explain parkour high jumping ability due to the fact that they are in a battlesuit, but MULTISHOT MAGIC BULLETS.. now thats magic

Wall bunny hopping - you are pushing out and away from the wall, according to physics, you should continue to move away from the wall. This makes no sense.

 

Multishot can just be explained as projectiles fracturing into multiple pieces. IRL if I fire a bullet from a revolver and that bullet splits into two parts, it doesn't magically take an extra bullet from my revolver.

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Honestly, I am not opposed to "fixing" multi shot the way they proposed, in fact I also wish they would completely abolish damage mods like Serration and Hornet Strike while they are at it, I have been playing shooters for many, many years and damage mods have always been something that I have not endorsed because they always become mandatory regardless of whatever "options" they give you, With that said, If they are to do this change I want to be all together along with re-balancing how enemies scales. Taking multi shot alone for a fix is going to wreck havoc in the game meta and how weapons are used. Considering how well their last survival game mode "improvements" went i am not putting too much faith that they will gracefully balance what is roughly 100 or so weapons.

Edited by S0V3REiGN
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Wall bunny hopping - you are pushing out and away from the wall, according to physics, you should continue to move away from the wall. This makes no sense.

Multishot can just be explained as projectiles fracturing into multiple pieces. IRL if I fire a bullet from a revolver and that bullet splits into two parts, it doesn't magically take an extra bullet from my revolver.

They did say we got gravity modifying strips installed along our frames to explain this.

A revolver bullet that split wouldn't do the twice the damage of the regular bullet. The same damage spread out more, sure, but not twice as much.

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Interesting, seems the consensus among most people in this thread so far is that this is actually probably a good idea. 

Until they realize that it makes enemies even more of a bullet sponge. I'm not saying I don't trust DE to do this change right, I'm just saying that I don't trust DE to do any change right. Their track record and their blatant disregard for common sense instills worry in me. They're very much suffering from arrogance in far too many cases.

 

You build a game for your players. Your players are those who keep you afloat. You do not make a game for yourself and expect it to do well. Your views are often wrong, and players are there to tell you as much. When you start plugging your ears and telling players that they are wrong, then you are doing it wrong. You need to be able to accept constructive criticism for your game and not take it as a personal slight. Saying "Players need to git gud or remain casual" should be a major wakeup call, but sheeple continue to ignore a sinking ship when others see it.

 

Is the game fun and playable? Yes, for the moment. Does it have longevity? Nowhere near that of other games where the developers are more willing to listen to their players. Not spending a dime on this game until the developer attitude changes to something less toxic, and something I wouldn't see in a high school clique.

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