Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[Valiant]

Devs did say in the stream that multishot mods were originally intended to consume extra ammo, and the fact that they didn't was just a bug that they rolled with for over two years... like coptering.

Yeeeaahhh... Sure.

If it makes you happy.

[Jangkrik]

Nerfing multishot basically makes the number of viable late game weapons even smaller. Unless they do some MASSIVE rebalancing it's just changing the problem from having auto include mods to having only a few weps you can even hope to use effectively. They're making the problem worse imo. 

This is what I'm thinking:

 

- Pre Multishot Nerf: Boltor, Braton, Soma, Penta, Ogris, Vectis, Tigris, etc

 

- Post Multishot Nerf: Opticor, Opticor, Opticor, Opticor, Torid, Torid, Torid, Torid, Latron, Latron, Latron, Latron..........(you know what I mean).

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jangkrik

[Clemency42]

By the way, for the people who say that it doesn't make sense for bullets to "magically" proc out of nowhere without ammo consumption:

 

 

Edit: Clarification. This is mainly headcanon from me. This nerf would make sense for energy weapons though.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Clemency42

[MaverickZero]

This is what I'm thinking.

 

- Pre Multishot Nerf: Boltor, Braton, Soma, Penta, Ogris, Vectis, Tigris, etc

 

- Post Multishot Nerf: Opticor, Opticor, Opticor, Opticor, Torid, Torid, Torid, Torid, Latron, Latron, Latron, Latron..........(you know what I mean).

Vectis Prime FTW!

[Abenoki]

I feel like one of the few people not very bothered by this. This will make builds more varied and make you really have to consider what your mods are. My example in another thread was burston prime. It's ROF capped on default so multi shot would essentially be the only way to increase the number of bullets you fire. This change will definitely hit hard, but multi shot vs ROF will now be a thing. You'll have to consider based on the weapon what will give you more dmg, or in some cases it'll be the only way to get off more shots when ROF mods aren't an option.

[Cubewano]

Did you miss the part where they said they were going to do a lot of rebalancing so the multishot nerf doesn't break the game on purpose or did the knee jerk reaction prevent you from hearing it against your will?

 

Because what you're saying is literally not even relevant to what's actually happening. And I think you don't know that, you should really consider:

first: watching the devstream again to catch that part

second: give DE some credit because they've done these huge changes before and it always works out

It worked out when they removed coptering, when they introduced melee 2.0, when they introduced damage 2.0, when they added conclave 2.0

third: build a bridge over your river of salty tears and get over it

He stated at the end of the post that the issue would be moot if a balancing is done, or at least a proper one, so there is no reason to hound him on speculating the problems that will arise without. At best it just promotes the message of things DE should be sure to add into the change, there is no problem in making it clear what not to do with the changes or leave out. 

 

And the whole huge updates is pushing it a bit far, this change isn't from what we've been shown to be considered a major rework; which alone should be worrisome since it's apparently an attempt at addressing an issue that can only be remedied with a rather large scale project. And DE have had a fair share of screw ups when it comes more minor projects, and also tend to leave them that way for extended periods. (also their major updates haven't always been roaring successes either, archwing is still a mess, melee 2.0 wasn't a bad direction but then melee still sucks so can it be called a success(?), and damage 2.0 from what I've heard worsened the issue with enemy scaling, etc.)

 

 

I feel like one of the few people not very bothered by this. This will make builds more varied and make you really have to consider what your mods are. My example in another thread was burston prime. It's ROF capped on default so multi shot would essentially be the only way to increase the number of bullets you fire. This change will definitely hit hard, but multi shot vs ROF will now be a thing. You'll have to consider based on the weapon what will give you more dmg, or in some cases it'll be the only way to get off more shots when ROF mods aren't an option.

Nah, this change is just going to make low rof weapons the only kings of gameplay. Here comes he reign of bows, snipers, and whatever opticor is. (oh and torid, can't forget that jewel)

Edited September 5, 2015 by Cubewano

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Did you miss the part where they said they were going to do a lot of rebalancing so the multishot nerf doesn't break the game on purpose or did the knee jerk reaction prevent you from hearing it against your will?

Because what you're saying is literally not even relevant to what's actually happening. And I think you don't know that, you should really consider:

first: watching the devstream again to catch that part

second: give DE some credit because they've done these huge changes before and it always works out

It worked out when they removed coptering, when they introduced melee 2.0, when they introduced damage 2.0, when they added conclave 2.0

third: build a bridge over your river of salty tears and get over it

DE isn't trustworthy with balancing.

Melee isn't desirable over guns except for finishers and Excalibur.

Damage 2.0 introduced infinite scaling and ruined multiple weapons ike acrid and ether.

Conclave isn't popular so they cleary didn't improve it enough.

Archwing.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Even on the assumptions that DE can:

-Rework weapons with appropriate reserve ammo so multishot doesn't make them completely unusuable...

-Rework all enemies and enemy scaling to account for the overall damage loss...

-Come up with something to make multishot and fire rate different effects...

 

I've come to realize that I'm either going to have to re-forma almost every weapon I thought was cool enough to keep around to either replace multishot or to add ammo mutation to keep up with the increased drain. I don't think I'm getting out of this without a lot of rebuilding.

 

I'm going to need over 100 forma just to make weapons usable again. For what? One more mod slot per weapon (or one less now that mutation is going to be mandatory?). I'd rather all that effort go into new content than redoing the basics.

 

All in all, it feels a lot like when I lost my Just Cause 2 save. I loved that game, but having to redo all those base takeovers, like having to redo all the weapon builds here, made it impossible for me to enjoy it. Losing it all made it feel like too much a waste of time and effort, and asked me to do it all again just to get back to where I was.

 

I'd hate to see Warframe go the same way. Just my two cents.

 

 

[(PSN)Pharen]

I almost quit over equinox RNG. But yeah, the multishot change will likely ruin everything. The only way I could see it working is if the mod also doubled the clip size, which would be impossible for mods that are already dual stat with multishot unless DE are okay with making triplestat mods.

[XBlackLotusX]

imo it would kill it for me too ive not been around as long as some of the veteran players but im still rank 20 and in turn have alota guns having to re-forma everything would suck personaly im not buying anymore content untill i find out whats happening with this not as some strange punishment to DE just because i dont know if ile like it after the change.

[Shifted]

We've all got things that are killing the game for us.

For me this change is a defib hit the game needed to NOT die.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

imo it would kill it for me too ive not been around as long as some of the veteran players but im still rank 20 and in turn have alota guns having to re-forma everything would suck personaly im not buying anymore content untill i find out whats happening with this not as some strange punishment to DE just because i dont know if ile like it after the change.

 

I'm MR18. Been around a while, so I have a fairly large collection. Some are good, some that I just liked and put forma on until they were good enough.

 

Clanmate just pointed out: How about the sicarus using nine ammo per burst?

 

Ugh. Because it wasn't putting looks and fun before effectiveness already.

[4MostlyHarmless2]

Since I'm an advocate of less being more in Warframe, I personally think the multishot change will be good.

You have a point, though: a lot of specialized builds are going to suffer because of this change, and the feeling of having to rank up and re-forma everything all over again can be very disheartening. When (if) the change comes, I hope that DE takes a good look at the options we have and makes the appropriate changes (or compensations) to lessen the impact. 

[(PSN)atpbx]

Surely the fix to this is changing the weapon mod system all together.

In that they increase the weapon damage levels and then remove all power mods from the game (remembering of course to replace our maxed serrations and split chambers with the equivalent most powerful new mod available) and then instead introduce proper weapon customisation:

Bigger mags, harder hitting rounds (with less in reserve), armour piercing rounds (the equivalent of shred) which do slightly less damage over all but are able to hit multiple enemies etc.

Enemy scaling should be capped in all content, with survivals and defences capped at 1hr or x waves.

And the reward tables need all the worthless S#&$ taking out of them as well.

[HollowExistence]

This mod need a rework or it needs to be removed. But the suggestion they make is to make it only useless.

So in other words they suggested a nerf to lower weapon damage by about 100-200%

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Since I'm an advocate of less being more in Warframe, I personally think the multishot change will be good.

You have a point, though: a lot of specialized builds are going to suffer because of this change, and the feeling of having to rank up and re-forma everything all over again can be very disheartening. When (if) the change comes, I hope that DE takes a good look at the options we have and makes the appropriate changes (or compensations) to lessen the impact. 

 

The numbers mean very little to me. If damage and enemy resistances were all divided by 10 and everything worked exactly the same with different numbers popping up, I would be fine. But, then again, multishot would probably be staying the same in that scenario.

 

Feeling punished for not getting all my builds from the interent and trying to make everything I liked good (rather than only liking good things) though? That hurts.

[ThePredicament]

Multishot eating more ammo is will NEVER be a good change because it's just another fire rate mod, pure and simple. Instead of fixing stuff they need to actually fix to make the game require less mandatory mods, they do these things. I've been playing this game for a very long time (MR20, 60+ days in game) and hearing this is actually making question if I should support the game further or not.

 

Sure they throw us a bone here and there but they also take just as much, maybe even more.

[paragasu]

The change is welcome...how do bullet suddenly do kagebunshin anyway?...people complain and will continue to complain...they said the boom weapon is now useless when DE change the ammo capacity from like hundred to what it is today, I don't see what the big deal is during that particular change and still feel the same for this one as well..

[esapto]

If you can't deal with changes then you probably shouldn't be here.

 

This is just like saying that removing coptering would kill the game for you, but of course they didn't just remove coptering they made parkour 2.

And now they said multishot will change, but you have no idea what they will change with it.

 

but hey, better create a forum post about how its going to kill the game for me, before I know how its going to change.

[Hatzeputt]

People rumor mongering and getting preemptively butt hurt over things they have yet no real clue about, lets me lose faith in gaming communities.

What 99% seems to have overlooked or overheard is the fact that it was also said, clip size and ammo reserve will be looked at and probably enemy scaling as well.  

 

Save your doom mongering and ship tosting for the time the changes go live, at least then your wgining might make sense.

 

Edit:

Hot damn must have typed it with my feet....

Edited September 5, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[LABAL]

Oooh! A classic case of "crippling overspecialization"!

 

People rumor mongering and getting preemptively butt hurt over things they have yet no real clue about, lets me lose faith in gaming communities.

What 99% seems to have overlooked or overheard is the fact that it was also said, clip size and ammo reserve will be looked at and probably enemy scaling as well.  

 

Save your doom mongering and ship tosting for the time the changes go live, at least then your wgining might make sense.

 

 If only DE didn't screw up so often. It still hurts, u'know.

Edited September 5, 2015 by LABAL

[low1991]

With Multishot change, no fix/buff will satisfy community unless DE buff damage & status % on each and every weapon.

[Evanescent]

'I will quit over something that has no concrete info or implementation, and I am sure a change I have no idea about will kill a game for me. So let's make a topic to fear-monger and *@##$ about it! '

 

 

yay!

[Monsterwithin]

If this happens (or when).

 

I will cry in a corner, for about 30 seconds.

 

That's about it, long as the devs doesn't make Warframe into a p2w game, Ill have faith in their changes.

[Valkyrion]

There's this thing called ammo restore...