Multishot Change Good? Or Bad?

[Omnimorph]

People are talking complete nonsense about "mandatory mods". Of course Serration is mandatory - damage is mandatory.

 

But the rate at which you rank up Serration is not mandatory - that is subject to choice, something you balance against ranking up other mods (e.g. warframe mods).

 

Unlike if a weapon had damage scaling built in automatically - then you would have no choice, you could put forward no effort at all, that would affect the most common thing you do: damage things.

 

To get rid of the "mandatory" mods and have whatever increase in damage a weapon may do built into the weapons and scaling at some fixed rate would take away choice. 

 

It would be a dreadful decision, and I hope DE doesn't listen to any of this idiocy.  They made absolutely the right decision to have all the things a weapon does, including damage, in the "moddable" container.

[-CM-Raven]

If you want to truly balance things out , DE , you should start thinking about making a cap for everything and start revise everything from there.

Once you done that you can remove serration and multishot mods and rework the whole damage to be optimized for the highest enemy level cap and also rework the enemy AI , same go for warframes if there's a cap on power strength but that cap is optimized to be viable for highest enemy cap , maybe then people wont feel compelled to have 2 or 3 power strength mods to feel they do some damage to enemies at high levels.

And many others like i said revise everything from there.

[Omnimorph]

If you want to truly balance things out , DE , you should start thinking about making a cap for everything and start revise everything from there.

Once you done that you can remove serration and multishot mods and rework the whole damage to be optimized for the highest enemy level cap and also rework the enemy AI , same go for warframes if there's a cap on power strength but that cap is optimized to be viable for highest enemy cap , maybe then people wont feel compelled to have 2 or 3 power strength mods to feel they do some damage to enemies at high levels.

And many others like i said revise everything from there.

 

Maybe there is a cap, but we don't know what it is, because ... the game is still unfinished.  We are due for the Sentients, after all, and it's likely the scaling Void content was always just a stopgap, in lieu of a true engame that all us supposedly "OP" players will likely find challenging enough.

 

So many people who moan about "power creep" (a term which most of the people using here so blithely don't seem to actually understand) or "damage mods" or us being OP relative to mobs, seem to be forgetting to bear in mind that the game is in beta, and it's unfinished.  i.e. their commentary seems to suggest that they think the game is finished, and is being tinkered with.  Not so, the game is unfinished, and being tinkered with.

[Goatboi]

it could be done well with time and alot of effort invested but if its just multishot uses more ammo we just go from requiring multishot to requiring multishot + ammo mutation and having more guns be trash tier since they dont all have soma p sized mags

[jfhsanseiIII]

As they said in the stream some weapons will need to be tweaked for it, but it's not out yet. So, it's too early to say anything.

[Brown0502]

OMG DON'T NERF MULTI SHOT OH GOD WARFRAME IS DEAD

[KiteoHatto]

Good change, hopefully we can expect to see serration rework next, along with all the other damage mods.

Hell, maybe we will eventually get changes to streamline and the like!

Edited September 6, 2015 by kiteohatto

[Valkyrion]

should made a poll OP, i would say good.
all those who complains are noobs who doesnt know how to mod or uses multishot in basically "almost" every weapon.

[Morgax]

i would say pointless, people will just swap it with another elemental damage mod.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Morgax

[PEPIYEA]

There will always be a loot cave.So stop crying for this nerf (fix).

[iquaniqua]

i think it should add recoil instead of increase ammo use

[iquaniqua]

Multi shot is turning into expensive fire rate and personally the real thing that should be rebalanced is serration etc.

expensive firerate with a chance*

[(PSN)Kamranos]

It will be swapping one "essential" mod for a new one; Ammo Mutation. 

[Dragon398765]

Freaking good. I now have 7 mod slots on my weapons. 

No, you don't. You have 5. Because you still need the raw power of multishot, but now you'll have to work around a way to solve the problem of ammo. You clearly aren't the best with logic if you don't realize that the nerf does nothing about the power and introduces no alternatives.

[DoomFruit]

Good change, hopefully we can expect to see serration rework next, along with all the other damage mods.

Hell, maybe we will eventually get changes to streamline and the like!

So, at what point are DE going to halt the infinite scaling of enemy hitpoints which requires us to equip these damage mods? Some time in 2017? 2018, perhaps? Or am I being too optimistic here?

How much longer will we have to wait after the nerf on our gear to make the enemies comparable?

Consider Damage 2.0: it came out nearly 2 years ago and we *still* don't have the fun factor back on our weapons (take your Amphis or Fragor, kill a hundred enemies with it and tell me how many of their limp corpses get whacked backwards into the nearest wall). And this isn't even anything to do with game balance. It's not something that requires careful thought and balacing (ha!) the equation between player and enemy strength.

Damage 2.0 didn't even attempt to do anything about the enemy scaling, one of the main reasons given for its implementation. I have zero confidence that them removing multishot or damage mods will have any similar effect.

[srlhama]

There is any way to unsubscribe this topic???

[Mathemagics]

please remove all mods - problem fixed

 

on a serious note when i started this game i was very happy that i can use  1 mod on all weapons ,so when i upped my serration it was for ALL my weapons same wiuh multishot etc. Maybe this system isnt perfect but there is no PERFECT sytem i bet what they come up with will have it flaws.

I think current system is finctional.

then again i play rarely lately so i dont mind them expriementing but i can bet u guys there will be problems with new system also.

i have 2 reload speed mods on my tigris , flight speed and reload on my tonkor etc ( i never use tho ammo related mods they not worth it imo u  use more ammo when u do less dmg , ill just tigger discipline and use my secondary or melee more)

anyway im w8ting for the sentinles then ill be playing more again i guess if its not another raid content ( i dont like raids to much communication i just like shoot stuff and do saltos)

[IEpicWolfI]

 My Soma Prime already eats through ammo fast, can't imagine what's bound to happen when the nerf hits.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

 My Soma Prime already eats through ammo fast, can't imagine what's bound to happen when the nerf hits.

Right. Double ammo consumption would make many weapons worthless. 

 

The damage we need to battle enemies at a high level demand max mods like serration, heavy cal and split chamber. While it is unfortunate to "need" these mods in every weapon, the system will never be perfect unless there is a balanced enemy system that doesn't make these mods a requirement. Having required mods are a symptom of a much larger problem, the enemies continue to get harder while we get weaker increasing our dependence on these mods. 

[crafturtoemc]

Pointing towards Amprex. 40ammo/s after nerf? NAWWW!!!

[Elenortirie]

in case of everything apart of shotties I think that this is a good change

 

but in case of shotties it just does not hold if they'll be slapped with exacly same change as all the rest

[Kolos1001]

Horrible. I don't want to reforma every weapon ever with no compensation. 

[Aimop95]

I love the idea and reasoning behind it. I just hope DE will be able to pull it off well. But yeah,  do think the multishot change will be a positive long term investment.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Frankly, it's going to massively rebalance the weapons. 

 

Secondaries, with their huge amount of multishot (+180%) that we almost always mod them for, will be heavily nerfed. (like 37% of what they were before, not even kidding.)

 

Primaries will suffer less, between lower multishot (90%) and higher corrupted (Heavy Caliber) which, coincidentally, only really effects bullets produced by multishot on quite a few weapons.  That being said, primaries will still suffer.

 

Melee though?  No suffering at all there.  It's gonna be more or less on par with the secondaries, in all likelihood, if not better than many of them.

 

Honestly, many of the already ammo guzzle-y weapons like ak-auto secondaries already effectively require ammo mutation to function in any sort of difficult scaling.  This will destroy them, period, unless DE makes ammo drops percentage based.

 

Those Somas and Grakatas and Gorgons and automatic weapons people love so much for dealing with the insane hordes that tend to pop out of doors in this game?  Yeah, they are gonna run out of ammo even faster.  Say hello to sniper rifles getting indirectly buffed (many of them take effectively no penalty from maxed HC as well, if you aren't using multishot...) and highly efficient weapons like the Phage, Latrons, and etc. will be pretty much the only weapons you might use multishot on (but probably not, because of their already low clip/magazine size).

 

Unfortunatly Archwing style low multishot percentages are just straight stupid.  It's a second crit AND a second fire rate that is random.  Hell no.  It's something you automatically put on after your first elemental mod or two if you do that, and it just makes it feel like terrible RNG no matter what.  Effectively, the better trigger discipline (a type of skill for automatic weaponry) you have with automatic weapons, the more it punishes you.  Again, OH HELL NO.

 

Basically:

 

     -Ammo drops must become percentage based.  Any form of vipers/grakatas/amprex/galaxion is effectively leprous forever otherwise.

     -Low capacity weapons like the latrons, magnums, and revolvers will need buffed clip/mag sized in all likelihood, since they are already relatively ammo efficient but will be reloading constantly.

     -Secondaries will be relegated forever to truly utility or holdout weapons, and nothing more.  Who even wants that?  I sure don't.

[Laoshottie_X]

It's funny when DE calls it an unintended bug all of a sudden with the latest streams, when the game was designed around it for 2 and a half years and lethal torrent came into existence and nothing happened at that time. Any reason DE can come up with would just be insta invalid honestly. They're just trying something different to keep the game changing, but calling it an unintended bug, lol w0t