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Forma Needs To Be Removed As A Construction Material


Zantestsuken
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I think DE needs to treat forma as an in-universe miracle material as opposed to a construction material. After all it's a piece of functional Orokin technology that has the capability to raise the tech level of whatever it is used on. The current use for it in dojo construction downplays that description; aside from room creation, once the forma is contributed/used, its benefits that are felt in polarizing weapons aren't matched, they just become another form of  material for the dojo.

 

Take it out of being a construction material (and possibly cutting resource costs) but make it a way to gradually upgrade and progress dojo elements.

 

When I mean miracle material, I mean as a way to unlock clan dojo room perks by somehow improving room equipment; it's already rewarding for players who want to upgrade their hard earned max rank gear, but this way it'll be rewarding for those who desire to contribute to the clan. Forma could be used to rank specific room perks, akin to the current mod system.

 

Example idea(s):

Adding forma to research room(s)

  • Used to rank up research time reduction
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: research time decreased by 10%
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: research time decreased by 20%
    • Rank 3 [8x Forma]: research time decreased by 30%
    • Etc.
  • Unlock new branches of related technology to research

Adding forma to oracle room(s)

  • Decrease construction time in the foundry
  • Reduce foundry material costs by rank
  • Enables ability to convert materials at various ranks of efficiency
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 50% chance of successfully converting
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 60% chance of successfully converting
    • Etc.

 

 

Loved it.

And how are "we" going to act when the people that already bought/crafted whatever their formas that used on building?

My clan has 3 active members daily, out of 7 members. I'm not joining another clan i'm accepting members that want to actually work to achieve something, even if we're the last ones to build the damn dojo.

And gathering any amount of Forma for us is just ridiculously just a dream.

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Yeah, I really dislike the idea of forma being used for basic building material, as suggested, perhaps it can be used to upgrade rooms, but not to build them in the first place. I only have a small clan of about 10 people, and we are struggling just creating a reactor and a cross-section, especially due to forma. I mean, gathering the other materials takes a while, but that's perfectly fine, forma is almost impossible to get, it's rediculous as a base building material.

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I think DE needs to treat forma as an in-universe miracle material as opposed to a construction material. After all it's a piece of functional Orokin technology that has the capability to raise the tech level of whatever it is used on. The current use for it in dojo construction downplays that description; aside from room creation, once the forma is contributed/used, its benefits that are felt in polarizing weapons aren't matched, they just become another form of  material for the dojo.

 

Take it out of being a construction material (and possibly cutting resource costs) but make it a way to gradually upgrade and progress dojo elements.

 

When I mean miracle material, I mean as a way to unlock clan dojo room perks by somehow improving room equipment; it's already rewarding for players who want to upgrade their hard earned max rank gear, but this way it'll be rewarding for those who desire to contribute to the clan. Forma could be used to rank specific room perks, akin to the current mod system.

 

Example idea(s):

Adding forma to research room(s)

  • Used to rank up research time reduction
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: research time decreased by 10%
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: research time decreased by 20%
    • Rank 3 [8x Forma]: research time decreased by 30%
    • Etc.
  • Unlock new branches of related technology to research

Adding forma to oracle room(s)

  • Decrease construction time in the foundry
  • Reduce foundry material costs by rank
  • Enables ability to convert materials at various ranks of efficiency
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 50% chance of successfully converting
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 60% chance of successfully converting
    • Etc.

 

Ok yeah I'm trying to get a small guild going and we are all having fun getting to try to plan or dojo but we are all stuck trying to get forma cause we don't want to have to pay for it. I thin DSMK2 has the right idea. I don't see any reason it has to just be dropped but make it do something special for building not be used as a base martial. I would love to get some DE feed back on DSMK2's idea.

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And how are "we" going to act when the people that already bought/crafted whatever their formas that used on building?

 

Ideally, I would like to see a forma/resource refund if building costs are changed. Though I can predict a 'deal with it' from DE when they change building costs; IMO it's going to anger small clans who have already invested forma into one or two rooms, while not affecting large established clans... Much, maybe.

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Ideally, I would like to see a forma/resource refund if building costs are changed. Though I can predict a 'deal with it' from DE when they change building costs; IMO it's going to anger small clans who have already invested forma into one or two rooms, while not affecting large established clans... Much, maybe.

If DMSK2 idea will be used it's simple, based on how forma you spent you'll have xPerks for the rooms

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I think DE needs to treat forma as an in-universe miracle material as opposed to a construction material. After all it's a piece of functional Orokin technology that has the capability to raise the tech level of whatever it is used on. The current use for it in dojo construction downplays that description; aside from room creation, once the forma is contributed/used, its benefits that are felt in polarizing weapons aren't matched, they just become another form of  material for the dojo.

 

Take it out of being a construction material (and possibly cutting resource costs) but make it a way to gradually upgrade and progress dojo elements.

 

When I mean miracle material, I mean as a way to unlock clan dojo room perks by somehow improving room equipment; it's already rewarding for players who want to upgrade their hard earned max rank gear, but this way it'll be rewarding for those who desire to contribute to the clan. Forma could be used to rank specific room perks, akin to the current mod system.

 

Example idea(s):

Adding forma to research room(s)

  • Used to rank up research time reduction
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: research time decreased by 10%
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: research time decreased by 20%
    • Rank 3 [8x Forma]: research time decreased by 30%
    • Etc.
  • Unlock new branches of related technology to research

Adding forma to oracle room(s)

  • Decrease construction time in the foundry
  • Reduce foundry material costs by rank
  • Enables ability to convert materials at various ranks of efficiency
    • Rank 1 [2x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 50% chance of successfully converting
    • Rank 2 [4x Forma]: conversion for each item has a 60% chance of successfully converting
    • Etc.

With the forma cost removed, I can see small clans getting their dojo layouts complete, then working to gather (or buying) forma to upgrade their functional rooms. Using forma for room upgrades adds further depth to dojo progression; it's not just building rooms, getting the materials and constructing them is the 'easy' part, but upgrading them will be tougher, longer, but more rewarding for the clan overall.

 

I'm fine with this, as long as it does not prevent me from experiencing new Content...

Higher material costs are fine for lower upgraded rooms...

 

this is an excellent idea for using Forma

 

I could also think about a timebased solution, e.g. if everyone could contribute Forma to a room it could be used as some kind of fuel to speed up things while this is active and reverts back to normal speed if used up...

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I'm fine with this, as long as it does not prevent me from experiencing new Content...

Higher material costs are fine for lower upgraded rooms...

 

this is an excellent idea for using Forma

 

I could also think about a timebased solution, e.g. if everyone could contribute Forma to a room it could be used as some kind of fuel to speed up things while this is active and reverts back to normal speed if used up...

 

The point is: we've found an agreement between fellow Tenno :) The question is: will we be heard by DE? This is an improvement wich doesn't steal anything from anyone.

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Forma can also be acquired from Defense missions and BP's from Void missions. You don't HAVE to pay platinum. I feel it slows down Dojo development enough to keep the Dojo feature interesting.

Slows down the dojo developement? Wake up. The humongous mega-clans are already starting to have FULLY FINISHED Dojos, while us small 10 man clans are still reeling at the sheer magnitude of the project any sort of decent dojo would be. As it stands even if we do manage to farm and build everything we need, its not going to be nearly as pretty as we'd like it to be. it will have to be efficient. there really is no choice for us to make our dojo how WE want it.  The ridiculous cost of dojos isnt doing a single thing to slow developement. its ONLY catering to massive clans, and crippling small ones.

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Slows down the dojo developement? Wake up. The humongous mega-clans are already starting to have FULLY FINISHED Dojos, while us small 10 man clans are still reeling at the sheer magnitude of the project any sort of decent dojo would be. As it stands even if we do manage to farm and build everything we need, its not going to be nearly as pretty as we'd like it to be. it will have to be efficient. there really is no choice for us to make our dojo how WE want it.  The ridiculous cost of dojos isnt doing a single thing to slow developement. its ONLY catering to massive clans, and crippling small ones.

 

Slow of fast it doesn't matter. The point we tried to reach is that Forma shouldn't be a requirement for the Dojo's crafting. Like you don't need Forma for "crafting" weapons or frames. If forma wasn't mandatory, but instead was something you add afterwards there will be no problem. The issue between big/small clan comes from their costs and from Forma.

The issue we needs arranged the most is Forma. First things first.

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Ideally, I would like to see a forma/resource refund if building costs are changed. Though I can predict a 'deal with it' from DE when they change building costs; IMO it's going to anger small clans who have already invested forma into one or two rooms, while not affecting large established clans... Much, maybe.

 

Yea i guess a refund should be okay, but a deal with it would be a nice back-stab even for those 2000 members clans D:

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Yea i guess a refund should be okay, but a deal with it would be a nice back-stab even for those 2000 members clans D:

 

Tbh, I see lots of people that complained and yet poured money...

 

I think there should not be a refund, the system was screwed, came out on friday, and people rushed to build up dojos like maniacs using tons of resources and Forma, instead of doing what many others are doing, standing up for what they truly believe, that the system is messed up and should be reviewed by DE. Theres clans already finishing off researches because they rushed it all and where willing to pay, so because of that small clans and people that can afford Forma get penalized by those? They did it out of there own will, I could be buying Forma but decided to stand for what I think is right.

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Tbh, I see lots of people that complained and yet poured money...

I think there should not be a refund, the system was screwed, came out on friday, and people rushed to build up dojos like maniacs using tons of resources and Forma, instead of doing what many others are doing, standing up for what they truly believe, that the system is messed up and should be reviewed by DE. Theres clans already finishing off researches because they rushed it all and where willing to pay, so because of that small clans and people that can afford Forma get penalized by those? They did it out of there own will, I could be buying Forma but decided to stand for what I think is right.

It's not their fault if they agreed right at the moment when U8 came out. If there will be a change the best way is not screwing them out. Here we're trying to prove that the majority is not okay with the whole use of Forma for crafting. If we'll prove this, changes will be made afterwards.

Edited by Zantestsuken
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It's not their fault if they agreed right at the moment when U8 came out. If there will be a change the best way is not screwing them out. Here we're trying to prove that the majority is not okay with the whole use of Forma for crafting. If we'll prove this, changes will be made afterwards.

 

Whoever payed agreed, that has to be understood.

 

If I buy Vauban and then it gets released for free, and im not talking about the alert system but serves as an example, whoever bought it cant get pissed of if it changes. When he bought it he agreed and purchased that product.

 

Same thing if you buy a car. You can get it for 20 thousand, and the day after theres a promo offering it at 12 thousand. You decided to pay, at any moment where you obligated, and Forma is the same thing.

 

There may be a refund, yes, probably the best solution, but I think its highly impossible given the amount that may already have been sold, and second of all as stated, each person bought it and used it at there own will.

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Whoever payed agreed, that has to be understood.

 

If I buy Vauban and then it gets released for free, and im not talking about the alert system but serves as an example, whoever bought it cant get &!$$ed of if it changes. When he bought it he agreed and purchased that product.

 

Same thing if you buy a car. You can get it for 20 thousand, and the day after theres a promo offering it at 12 thousand. You decided to pay, at any moment where you obligated, and Forma is the same thing.

 

There may be a refund, yes, probably the best solution, but I think its highly impossible given the amount that may already have been sold, and second of all as stated, each person bought it and used it at there own will.

There's even the chance our feedback will not be listened :/

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It will, Ive got to talk to Rebecca and she said many many ideas are being taken a look at.

 

To fully understand it, Im waiting on the livestream, as hopefully it will al be clarified.

 

We have to also take into account that maybe big clans are being encouraged because servers wouldn't be able to handle hundreds of small clans and there dojos, that being the reason Forma was put in, so that small clans have a really really low chance to get enough Forma, while big clans dont have.

 

So the best is to wait =)

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It will, Ive got to talk to Rebecca and she said many many ideas are being taken a look at.

 

To fully understand it, Im waiting on the livestream, as hopefully it will al be clarified.

 

We have to also take into account that maybe big clans are being encouraged because servers wouldn't be able to handle hundreds of small clans and there dojos, that being the reason Forma was put in, so that small clans have a really really low chance to get enough Forma, while big clans dont have.

 

So the best is to wait =)

 

nah I think hundreds or thousands of small clans wouldn't be a problem as we have individual players with thousands of mods atm, I don't belive that a static structure will be a Problem for the servers.

Or does the dojo System work different than the normal mission system?

(first Player in the Instance hosts the game)

 

PS: with static I mean, that the dojo is built out of predefined large pieces...

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nah I think hundreds or thousands of small clans wouldn't be a problem as we have individual players with thousands of mods atm, I don't belive that a static structure will be a Problem for the servers.

Or does the dojo System work different than the normal mission system?

(first Player in the Instance hosts the game)

 

PS: with static I mean, that the dojo is built out of predefined large pieces...

 

Still we have to add up all the features to actually know if that is, or isn't, an issue.

 

I do think it isn't, as you stated, but Im always cautious and prefer to give a chance to the live before badmouthing or pointing fingers, till now the game has given me endless fun.

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till now the game has given me endless fun.

 

Aside from this Forma move I feel the same, this is why we're taking action. Because if the fun stop it will be a loss in terms of time and money. I mean, a game with frickin' ninjas with guns? EPIC

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For variable room prices look here: https://forums.warfr...-write-comment/

And forma in building is good, because its about you - if you will donate to your clan or not ("my weapon is good with polarity slot") haha.. so you can drop forma BP in alerts, daily reward and in voids ... if you will go some defense in 4 peoples from clan example: IO on Jupiter and Void price - tower II so you will have 16 forma BP ....its OK on 25 formas on Great hall ;-)

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For variable room prices look here: https://forums.warfr...-write-comment/

And forma in building is good, because its about you - if you will donate to your clan or not ("my weapon is good with polarity slot") haha.. so you can drop forma BP in alerts, daily reward and in voids ... if you will go some defense in 4 peoples from clan example: IO on Jupiter and Void price - tower II so you will have 16 forma BP ....its OK on 25 formas on Great hall ;-)

 

Theres people that did 100 runs and got 3 Forma BP... so assuming by you're incredible mathematics that would mean 4 people in the clan... 12 Forma... oops no Great Hall for you're clan, after 100 runs, meaning 25 keys from each clan member, and assuming the 4 played along all the time.

 

I have been farming since U8 came out and got 5 keys, my brother 4 and the other clan mate 2... so thats a total of 11 keys, but it would be 20 if we had the chance to play along. Hmm... guess we will be lucky to have the Great Hall in 1 month... that is farming only for Keys, I still have to farm the resources to build the dojo.

 

So unless I use money to buy Forma, no dojo for me :)

Edited by Hybridon
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I am sorry, but 4 peoples in clan with 4 keys = 16 forma, not 12.. (1 member hosts + 3 invites = 1 key and 4 forma BP)

And if you will farm IO, Venera, and more defenses around to 15 wave, you clan will have much keys..

Edited by Maxdoney
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If prices were cut, there woul dneed a lot less forma for rooms.

the price would then be used to reduce the remaining time of construction (the original tim ewould be raised a lot)

A lengthy explanation here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/51931-a-proposition-for-the-dojo-costs/

Forma would be no more a problem. an dit would put incentive on player to buy a little forma. And the forma you get here and thee could still be used efficiently (because getting 1 or 2 forma when costs are 5 or 15... well, no).

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I am sorry, but 4 peoples in clan with 4 keys = 16 forma, not 12.. (1 member hosts + 3 invites = 1 key and 4 forma BP)

And if you will farm IO, Venera, and more defenses around to 15 wave, you clan will have much keys..

 

Learn how to read.

 

I stated some people did 100+ runs and got ONLY 3 Forma, therefore 3 multiplied by 4 clan members in these runs = 12 Forma.

 

Also you are going by the premise that everybody will be lucky and get keys, Ive heard from people that did 40-50 hours on defense missions and didnt get a single key. So again, how to expect getting Forma if they cant get the keys, and when they get the key, they have 1 chance, in 33,333 to get a Forma?

 

In case you again didnt quite get the maths, 100 runs and 3 Forma, 100/3= 33,333

 

So yes, Forma has to be or eliminated, or reduced to a cost viable to clans that arent composed of 100+ members.

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