De, You Should Get Rid Of Multishot For Good

[TheBrsrkr]

I Swear you founders have the worst ideas.

Literally the worst comment on the forums.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Melee is getting multihit though and various stances have it.

The proposed Multishot nerf will be a rate of fire mod for rifle, still mandatory for semi autos and a buff to Vectis P.

Maybe even adding mutation as a mandatory since DE doesn't have a good history of balancing.

Edited September 5, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[KnightCole]

Melee is getting multihit though and various stances have it.

The proposed Multishot nerf will be a rate of fire mod for rifle, still mandatory for semi autos and a buff to Vectis P.

Maybe even adding mutation as a mandatory since DE doesn't have a good history of balancing.

 

So its going to become a gold backed Fast trigger?

[Aeron216]

Firearms can already be ridiculously OP with those kind of mods, on the stream they were right by saying that your first and second weapon completely overshadow everything else. 

[LtZefar]

A mod which increases damage over time. Enemies are level 20? +20% damage. enemies get to level 21? +21% damage etc.

Except the scaling would be horrible. Enemies scales much faster and higher than with just 1%. Someone said that a level 50 enemy is 4 times as powerful as a level 25.

 

And no, it's not a salty scream like "YOU NERFED MY FAVORITE RHINO?! THEN YOU BETTER REMOVE HIM FROM THE GAME COMPLETELY!!!!!11" I always thought multishot was mostly a weird unneded mechanics.

 

My point is — multishot is just second serration / hornet strike. It simply increase all damage and because of that it's absolutely must-have on all weapons. So, we effectively have 6 slots instea of 8  — because one is reserved for base damage mod, one is for multishot. I see no reason in occupying two slot for the same purpose instead of one.

 

So, my suggestion:

- normal multishot mods (like Split Barrel or Hell's Chamber) should be removed completely;

- "special" mods like Lethal Torret or Scattered Justice should be changed to give base or elemental damage;

 

Also look at melee weapons — they are absoluely fine without multishots. And so guns would be absolutely fine too.

 

Melee are fine because they got an Aura slot that made some weapon ridiculous. Some melee weapons dealt over a million damage I believe. So yea give me those damage numbers on my primary weapons and I won't complain.

[AlienOvermind]

So yea give me those damage numbers on my primary weapons and I won't complain.

Haven't you seen red crit headshots on Dread?

Edited September 5, 2015 by AlienOvermind

[Idiocy]

Firearms can already be ridiculously OP with those kind of mods, on the stream they were right by saying that your first and second weapon completely overshadow everything else. 

 

I'm sorry, what? Are you mental? Where's the problem where your bloody WEAPONS that you use to KILL THINGS are overshadowing everything else? What else is there? Melee? That's $&*&*#(%& in a game where the vast majority of your enemies are ranged. Warframe powers? Sure, they don't scale very well, especially damage, but crowd control powers are always useful at any level of difficulty.

 

But seriously, that's like saying that there's a problem with a warrior's shield overshadowing his friggin' sword in killing power.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

And no, it's not a salty scream like "YOU NERFED MY FAVORITE RHINO?! THEN YOU BETTER REMOVE HIM FROM THE GAME COMPLETELY!!!!!11" I always thought multishot was mostly a weird unneded mechanics.

 

My point is — multishot is just second serration / hornet strike. It simply increase all damage and because of that it's absolutely must-have on all weapons. So, we effectively have 6 slots instea of 8  — because one is reserved for base damage mod, one is for multishot. I see no reason in occupying two slot for the same purpose instead of one.

 

So, my suggestion:

- normal multishot mods (like Split Barrel or Hell's Chamber) should be removed completely;

- "special" mods like Lethal Torret or Scattered Justice should be changed to give base or elemental damage;

 

Also look at melee weapons — they are absoluely fine without multishots. And so guns would be absolutely fine too.

 

So are you gonna fold the benefits of multishot into all weapons, then? Both the damage and crit/status benefits?

Because if not, stop trying to make my endgame play harder. Raids, particularly nightmare raids, rely on tremendous damage in order compensate for times when you don't CC perfectly.

 

We can talk about removing multishot but not giving us something just as good to compensate when endgame enemies don't have tens to hundreds of thousands of HP and don't oneshot you such that you need to kill them before they shoot or spam CC.

 

3. Overall difficulty increase.

 

This isn't a good thing until the enemy scaling is fixed to be less broken. Because this just makes already bulletspongy enemies even more bulletspongy.

 

If you're gonna nerf player DPS, it needs to be accompanied by a meganerf to enemy scaling, because right now endgame play requires that level of DPS to kill quickly enough to be viable.

[2Peter3Nine]

If you don't want to use the mod, don't use it.

It's as simple as that.

 

Go solo T4 Intersection without multi-shot, then tell me again how it is un-needed.

 

In the End-Game, you need all the damage you can get.

[2Peter3Nine]

Haven't you seen red crit headshots on Dread?

 Dread might be great, but not EVERYONE wants to use it.

[AlienOvermind]

If you don't want to use the mod, don't use it.

It's as simple as that.

A solution for an autist, yeah. "Imagine the world is not around."

 

And T4 Interception is possible without multishot. At least usual ~8 rounds. As for higher levels — remember Phoenix Intercept? What let us clear an Interception with lvl100 enemies? I'll remind you — it was crowd control, not DPS.

 

Also, I checked DPS numbers on some top-tier guns:

Soma Prime, 19k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma_prime/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-159-3-5-405-5-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-405-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-65

Vaykor Hek, 20k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Hek/t_30_33220022_167-6-3-168-3-5-170-0-0-175-1-5-179-5-5-180-7-5-181-2-5-186-4-5_170-3-175-6-181-5-168-5-186-9-179-11-167-5-180-5/en/2-0-81

Rakta Cernos, 33k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Rakta_Cernos/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-153-5-3-159-3-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-153-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-85

All without multishot.

Edited September 6, 2015 by AlienOvermind

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

raise damage on all rifles 90%, raise damage of all pistols 180%, remove multi-shot.

 

suggested multi-shot rework would equate to adding fire rate which we already have. would also reward already efficient weapons, while absolutely shelfing weapons that already are not efficient.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Boar prime is awful as it is. It's only mid tier as it stands now ( I have a 6 forma boar p ) and as somebody pointed out... It needs the multi shot for so many reasons... If you think removing multi shot is a good idea then you either only use op guns like the boltor or never got to enemies past level 30... Weapons like amprex, synapse, atomos, brakk, simulor, castanas, twin grakata, glaxion, phage, Tigris, hek, vectis, and even the soma NEED the multishot as it is currently to even function. It helps them fill innate weakness of the gun by getting more damage, status effects, crit damage, out of less ammo. Go use the amprex and tell me you want it to have a multi shot mod that acts like 100% fire rate. Tell me that when your amprex runs out of ammo after .6 seconds and you are running away while spamming ammo pads. If we lose multishot without huge huge huge weapon buffs, like making the boar p have 24 pellet count or a similar buff to all mentioned weapons then they become unusable worthless pieces of garbage that can't do anything to actual enemies. Cannon fodder ( any enemy under 40 ) doesn't count. Try doing an ods for 1 hour without multishot or cc.

Infested healers will laugh at you

[Deadoon]

A solution for an autist, yeah. "Imagine the world is not around."

 

And T4 Interception is possible without multishot. At least usual ~8 rounds. As for higher levels — remember Phoenix Intercept? What let us clear an Interception with lvl100 enemies? I'll remind you — it was crowd control, not DPS.

 

Also, I checked DPS numbers on some top-tier guns:

Soma Prime, 19k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma_prime/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-159-3-5-405-5-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-405-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-65

Vaykor Hek, 20k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Hek/t_30_33220022_167-6-3-168-3-5-170-0-0-175-1-5-179-5-5-180-7-5-181-2-5-186-4-5_170-3-175-6-181-5-168-5-186-9-179-11-167-5-180-5/en/2-0-81

Rakta Cernos, 33k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Rakta_Cernos/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-153-5-3-159-3-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-153-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-85

All without multishot.

Here is a little tip; that soma does less damage per shot than a braton prime can currently.

 

Just putting that in perspective. A rifle with a 66% chance of status effects does more damage per shot than that soma even after you take into account crit damage.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Braton_prime/t_30_22200303_128-4-3-132-0-5-133-7-5-134-3-5-137-1-10-141-5-5-150-2-10-355-6-3_132-8-137-7-150-8-134-11-128-7-141-6-355-7-133-6/en/2-0-3

 

Also, it doesn't have any punch-through so even when you are dealing with hordes of enemies it isn't as much use as this braton is, as this would effectively double it's damager per second and per shot.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Deadoon

[Culaio]

A solution for an autist, yeah. "Imagine the world is not around."

 

And T4 Interception is possible without multishot. At least usual ~8 rounds. As for higher levels — remember Phoenix Intercept? What let us clear an Interception with lvl100 enemies? I'll remind you — it was crowd control, not DPS.

 

Also, I checked DPS numbers on some top-tier guns:

Soma Prime, 19k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma_prime/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-159-3-5-405-5-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-405-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-65

Vaykor Hek, 20k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Hek/t_30_33220022_167-6-3-168-3-5-170-0-0-175-1-5-179-5-5-180-7-5-181-2-5-186-4-5_170-3-175-6-181-5-168-5-186-9-179-11-167-5-180-5/en/2-0-81

Rakta Cernos, 33k: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Rakta_Cernos/t_30_33220022_133-1-5-137-7-10-138-4-5-140-2-5-141-0-5-150-6-10-153-5-3-159-3-5_141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-138-11-153-9-150-8-137-7/en/2-0-85

All without multishot.

 

The thing is that some people have very unreliable internet connection and cant bring full team with corrosive projection to long endless void missions, because of that they are forced to go solo with only ONE corrosive projection, even if I bring boltor prime with best build and continue to use abilities like Molecular Prime game still get hard after 30 minutes and VERY hard after 35 min in, I go through ammo VERY fast, sometimes using up 1/4 of clip on one bombard.

[jmthebigman]

It needs to stay cause allot of weapons benefit allot, to make it status proc beasts, removing it would be stupid, not to mention it also creates bigger areas that you can nuke etc.

[AlienOvermind]

not to mention it also creates bigger areas that you can nuke

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

[Aeron216]

Overreacting much 

[Culaio]

DE should stop trying to balance game around full teams with corrosive projections, for people playing with randoms or people who have bad internet connection and are forced to do solo endless missions damage already gets VERY bad after 30min in even when using boltor prime with best build.

[Darthmufin]

that would work perfectly fine as long as they downscale all the enemy levels in the game, aka make them easier to kill to match the loss in damage. that would leave room for mods people rarely ever use, like faction damage mods. 

[AlienOvermind]

DE should stop trying to balance game around full teams with corrosive projections, for people playing with randoms or people who have bad internet connection and are forced to do solo endless missions damage already gets VERY bad after 30min in even when using boltor prime with best build.

Well, to be completely honest, I believe balancing around full teams is mostly a good thing becuase of the game's co-op nature. But some tuning for smaller teams is already implemented — for example Interception targets can be captured much faster in solo, and enemies overall spawnrate is lower in solo. Anyway it's all unrelated to multishot removal. It's a separate problem and it should get a separate solution.

[Culaio]

Well, to be completely honest, I believe balancing around full teams is mostly a good thing becuase of the game's co-op nature. But some tuning for smaller teams is already implemented — for example Interception targets can be captured much faster in solo, and enemies overall spawnrate is lower in solo. Anyway it's all unrelated to multishot removal. It's a separate problem and it should get a separate solution.

 

some time ago DE shown how chart with enemy numbers in survival and it looked kinda like this 80 if solo 100 if two players, 150 if three and 200 if full team(i dont remembe if it was % or what but I remember numbers in the chart), it shows that  DE construced survival in such way that solo players have at big disadvantage, not only solo players cant use corrosive projection and cant use synergy of powers to their advantage but ration of enemies  per player is also much higher.

 

enemies should be nerfed or buffed depending on numbers of players.

 

also its not just solo that has problem, even if you have full team but only some of players have corrosive projection, then you will wont survive to 50-60 min. Corrosive projection aura shouldnt be mandatory for endless missions, other aura's also should be useful.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Culaio

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

This sounds idiotic bro. It's peopel like you that think "essentials" being a bad thing that will take the fun away from this game and cause much more unneeded problems. Hope you feel proud of yourself for your Stroke of geneious... (By the way people will just move to the next best thing and nothing will change, why cant you people see that!)

Edited September 7, 2015 by (XB1)Zweimander

[AlienOvermind]

some time ago DE shown how chart with enemy numbers in survival and it looked kinda like this 80 if solo 100 if two players, 150 if three and 200 if full team(i dont remembe if it was % or what but I remember numbers in the chart), it shows that  DE construced survival in such way that solo players have at big disadvantage, not only solo players cant use corrosive projection and cant use synergy of powers to their advantage but ration of enemies  per player is also much higher.

 

enemies should be nerfed or buffed depending on numbers of players.

 

also its not just solo that has problem, even if you have full team but only some of players have corrosive projection, then you will wont survive to 50-60 min. Corrosive projection aura shouldnt be mandatory for endless missions, other aura's also should be useful.

Yep, attuning missions for team size may be kinda weird now. But like I said, it's completely different problem.

 

Armor scaling is yet another problem — many people (me included) suggested some severe cap on armor scaling. Infinite health scaling is fine, but infinite armor + health scaling is weird, that's right. And again, separate problem, not tryly related to multishot.

 

And the last: I wonder why endless mission exists. Putting a cap of 30m on survival or 25 waves on Defense would solve SO many enemy scaling problems. That would require some reward rework, but "infinitte" enemies' health+armor would just disappear like a bad dread. But then again, not related to multishot problem.

 

 

This sounds idiotic bro. It's peopel like you that think "essentials" being a bad thing that will take the fun away from this game and cause much more unneeded problems. Hope you feel proud of yourself for your Stroke of geneious...

Thank you for being classy, good sir.

Edited September 7, 2015 by AlienOvermind