Multi Shot Changes

[DoritosandDewGG]

I don't see why there's so much hate for this. I think people should just think about conserving there ammo instead of being a trigger happy goon and take ammo restores and use mutation mods if you have to. People are complaining as if it's a crime for DE to make you run out of ammo faster by your own choice. If you wanna still use multi shot, mod accordingly and take lots of team ammo restores and put an aura scavenger mod on, at least this aura mods will see some use. I think everyone needs to give DE a break.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I don't see why there's so much hate for this. I think people should just think about conserving there ammo instead of being a trigger happy goon and take ammo restores and use mutation mods if you have to. People are complaining as if it's a crime for DE to make you run out of ammo faster by your own choice. If you wanna still use multi shot, mod accordingly and take lots of team ammo restores and put an aura scavenger mod on, at least this aura mods will see some use. I think everyone needs to give DE a break.

People are complaining mostly because they're spoiled on the capability to go 40-60 minutes or longer into a TIII/TIV survival before enemy scaling finally outpaces their weaponry.  They justify their complaints around the "broken enemy scaling" without realizing the whole point of infinite enemy scaling is to eventually render their weapons and defenses impotent.  When that happens is irrelevant, it's going to happen.  It's why people look at anything that doesn't live up to or surpass the Boltor/Soma prime and the de-facto most powerful secondary or melee as mastery fodder.

 

This change just reels in the maximum level players are expected to be able to handle, and they're upset about losing distance in their void keys.

 

They'll get over it.  This game is meant to be grindy, because that's what keeps people playing and ultimately paying.  This is true for just about any game anymore.

[Kuusoq]

I wonder if there will be any balance changes made since that change would only significantly affect guns with poor ammo economy.

As in, multishot consuming extra ammo wouldn't really affect many powerful guns at all, esp those that are single fire mode like bows.

Opticor also comes to mind.

Attica would become new boltor.

Not sure how I personally would feel about that but I can imagine most going into mad mode.

 

Don't want this to be one of those cases when they implement something and only after fix the inevitable aftermath.

 

It was said in the devstream that they don't like the fact that whenever new gun comes out people would always go for the same initial formas to fit in 'obligatory' mods, multishot being the case here. But whats so bad about that? Why not just treat it as a milestone that everyone should strive to?

Getting mods and leveling them is not that easy when you are relatively new to the game, is it? So why can't we keep it the way it is currently?

 

I'd rather they thought of mods that we would want to use instead of multishot. Even if it would go as far as making us choose whether we would slot in multishot or some alternative which would be.. incompatible with the former.

[DoritosandDewGG]

is the forum broken or did I just get 2 legit responses instead of crying and whining :L but seriously, both decent replies :)

[tbeest]

WhYyY ArE tHeY goInG To ReMoVe mUlTiShOoOoOoTt?

 

There you go ;)

 

And I do agree to some extent. Automatic rifles like Boltor and Soma are BOUND to run out of ammo with their high fire rates. Them not running out of ammo is what makes them OP. Switch to your secondary or melee if you run out of ammo and don't whine

Edited September 5, 2015 by tbeest

[DoritosandDewGG]

WhYyY ArE tHeY goInG To ReMoVe mUlTiShOoOoOoTt?

 

There you go ;)

 

And I do agree to some extent. Automatic rifles like Boltor and Soma are BOUND to run out of ammo with their high fire rates. Them not running out of ammo is what makes them OP. Switch to your secondary or melee if you run out of ammo and don't whine

Exactly my point, as soon as people get pushed out there comfort zone they get mad, but this offers the game some challenge and people to pick more wisely. Because I can imagine of 90% players have the exact same load out when it comes to mods as well.

[Lost_Cartographer]

is the forum broken or did I just get 2 legit responses instead of crying and whining :L but seriously, both decent replies :)

I'm the only guy here with over 200 posts.  Just saying, the rest of y'all haven't become jaded yet.

 

If the proposed changes go through, multi shot will benefit low RPM weapons most.  Higher RPM weapons will probably have to seek other means of damage increase.  The Braton, Braton Prime, and Latron Prime are actually still pretty beast with a crit build for example.

[Stingray97]

DE isn't just going to nerf multishot mods without considering the implications and addressing them. People cried out about coptering in the same way and that worked out well so I trust DE that they will get this right too.

[Deshiel]

With every new multi shot thread, I am realy losing the will to read its content, especialy when another multishot thread is just few clicks away. :/

[Baruti]

I find it funny that all the good goys with their 100 dollar prime Icons are defending them.

 

It's not about being a trigger happy goon, it's about a negative and sweeping change with a mountain of work behind it for no real reason or benefit. It's about it being unfun to as people will condescendingly say "have your toys taken from you." Not to mention all the broken builds people will have from max formaing something. It's work that could be put into a myriad of ways this game is lacking, or if there's no balancing work then it's just making you do the same tired content but making it harder, and a few weapons will come out unscathed and be the new meta, because losing 50% damage vs not losing 50% damage is just nonnegotiable for anyone that likes to make optimal builds.

 

So enjoy your opticor meta and the death of secondaries, or a complete rebalance and all the work that goes with it to put the game in "ideally" the same place instead of moving forward. Rebalincing the guns will be a mountain of work in itself, just look how hilariously long it's taken them to fix shotguns (and even longer for snipers) do you trust them to rebalance every weapon in the game?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Baruti

[hawker_mech]

Its nothing but a broken fire rate mod...

[Hypernaut1]

I find it funny that all the good goys with their 100 dollar prime Icons are defending them.

 

It's not about being a trigger happy goon, it's about a negative and sweeping change with a mountain of work behind it for no real reason or benefit. It's about it being unfun to as people will condescendingly say "have your toys taken from you." Not to mention all the broken builds people will have from max formaing something. It's work that could be put into a myriad of ways this game is lacking, or if there's no balancing work then it's just making you do the same tired content but making it harder, and a few weapons will come out unscathed and be the new meta, because losing 50% damage vs not losing 50% damage is just nonnegotiable for anyone that likes to make optimal builds.

 

So enjoy your opticor meta and the death of secondaries, or a complete rebalance and all the work that goes with it to put the game in "ideally" the same place instead of moving forward. Rebalincing the guns will be a mountain of work in itself, just look how hilariously long it's taken them to fix shotguns (and even longer for snipers) do you trust them to rebalance every weapon in the game?

There we go! This thread was getting weird with all the reasonable rational post in a row.

[Baruti]

There we go! This thread was getting weird with all the reasonable rational post in a row.

Sorry to ruin your echo chamber, back to the regularly scheduled DE forum apologist circle jerk..

Edited September 5, 2015 by Baruti

[10thdivine]

Im really glad of this change as it will dethrone the mighty soma and boltor prime and every fast fire rate op killing machine and may make room for a wider choice

[DoritosandDewGG]

I find it funny that all the good goys with their 100 dollar prime Icons are defending them.

It's not about being a trigger happy goon, it's about a negative and sweeping change with a mountain of work behind it for no real reason or benefit. It's about it being unfun to as people will condescendingly say "have your toys taken from you." Not to mention all the broken builds people will have from max formaing something. It's work that could be put into a myriad of ways this game is lacking, or if there's no balancing work then it's just making you do the same tired content but making it harder, and a few weapons will come out unscathed and be the new meta, because losing 50% damage vs not losing 50% damage is just nonnegotiable for anyone that likes to make optimal builds.

So enjoy your opticor meta and the death of secondaries, or a complete rebalance and all the work that goes with it to put the game in "ideally" the same place instead of moving forward. Rebalincing the guns will be a mountain of work in itself, just look how hilariously long it's taken them to fix shotguns (and even longer for snipers) do you trust them to rebalance every weapon in the game?

Love how you base half your argument on peoples icons.. U Mus b3 sO smurt

Regardless of the multi shot, every weapon needs reworking as well because the MR is screwed up. And they haven't even confirmed they will change it and you don't even know what they'll change it to. So stop making assumptions. People seem to forget this game is still in beta, so problems are expected to rise all the time, so sit back and enjoy. And if it isn't going you way and your not enjoying it, just stop playing.

[Baruti]

Im really glad of this change as it will dethrone the mighty soma and boltor prime and every fast fire rate op killing machine and may make room for a wider choice

You do realize there's tons of slow fire rate weapons that are as good or better than Soma Prime and Boltor prime?

 

Opticor, Torid, Paris Prime, Dread, Rakta Cernos, Penta, Ogris, Tonkor, Rakta Ballistica, Hek, Tigris, Drakgoon, Latron Prime/Wraith, Vectis. I'm sure I'm even missing some. There's already variety, this will just make less.

[Baruti]

Love how you base half your argument on peoples icons.. U Mus b3 sO smurt

Regardless of the multi shot, every weapon needs reworking as well because the MR is screwed up. And they haven't even confirmed they will change it and you don't even know what they'll change it to. So stop making assumptions. People seem to forget this game is still in beta, so problems are expected to rise all the time, so sit back and enjoy. And if it isn't going you way and your not enjoying it, just stop playing.

 

I'd hardly call my passive aggressive little swing "half my argument." Admittedly it was uncalled for, I apologize for that, but I'm pretty upset that as a long time player with hundreds and hundreds of hours in this game (MR20 btw) That I've been riding DE's Wild ride for too long, I don't think every Dev stream always needs to have some catastrophic change, it's just draining that it it keeps coming to these ledges and feeling like they need to be talked down. I want this game to evolve and someday have long term longevity for players like me, but I still enjoy it for what it is, it's fast paced and just the act of playing it is satisfying. And one of my favorite things is playing around with weapon and frame modding, min maxing and then seeing how long I can last in endless missions, so if they just decide to make players weaker without a rebalance, it's just the same content as always but less mileage.

 

I'm just really upset about this change though, there's going to be mechanics that become baked into a games meta and it's not bad everything doesn't need to be shaken down to it's core, I'd rather there be positive changes that shake up the power balance then just going back and pulling tools out of our hands. (no I don't think coptering being gone is bad btw, my only stipulation was that they give us something in it's place and DE delivered in spades, so kudos on that) It's just a lot of work, a lot of unhappy people, and I do honestly feel like there's places it could be better spent.

 

I'm just grumpy and jaded to some degree, but I think this is not a good idea on all fronts, and I don't like seeing people dismissing everyone's concerns out of hand and calling anyone who opposes this a "trigger happy goon" Please take a more indepth look at the bigger picture and if you still feel it's a positive change then that's fine, that's your prerogative. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Baruti

[Hypernaut1]

I want this game to evolve and someday have long term longevity for players like me,

says the guy thats MR20 with "100s of hours" playtime.

[Baruti]

says the guy thats MR20 with "100s of hours" playtime.

 

Overarching goals beyond logging in and making a new shiny and then leaving again would be good, but maybe you're right I've gotten good mileage out of the game maybe I should leave, if that's what you're insinuating. That or you're aggressively defending DE or just being a jerk. I'm not sure.

[DoritosandDewGG]

I'd hardly call my passive aggressive little swing "half my argument." Admittedly it was uncalled for, I apologize for that, but I'm pretty upset that as a long time player with hundreds and hundreds of hours in this game (MR20 btw) That I've been riding DE's Wild ride for too long, I don't think every Dev stream always needs to have some catastrophic change, it's just draining that it it keeps coming to these ledges and feeling like they need to be talked down. I want this game to evolve and someday have long term longevity for players like me, but I still enjoy it for what it is, it's fast paced and just the act of playing it is satisfying. And one of my favorite things is playing around with weapon and frame modding, min maxing and then seeing how long I can last in endless missions, so if they just decide to make players weaker without a rebalance, it's just the same content as always

I have put 400 hours into this game and I think my opinion matters just as much as new person and someone that's played from the start. And MR 20 means nothing. At the the end of the day, they will change it or it wont't happen, and there's little you can do about it. I would just think forward on how to accommodate it. Like a rifle scavenger mods, mutation mod, carrier and ammo restores will keep you perked up with lots of ammo and keep you optimal at pumping out rounds.

[fatpig84]

People are complaining mostly because they're spoiled on the capability to go 40-60 minutes or longer into a TIII/TIV survival before enemy scaling finally outpaces their weaponry.  They justify their complaints around the "broken enemy scaling" without realizing the whole point of infinite enemy scaling is to eventually render their weapons and defenses impotent.  When that happens is irrelevant, it's going to happen.  It's why people look at anything that doesn't live up to or surpass the Boltor/Soma prime and the de-facto most powerful secondary or melee as mastery fodder.

 

This change just reels in the maximum level players are expected to be able to handle, and they're upset about losing distance in their void keys.

 

They'll get over it.  This game is meant to be grindy, because that's what keeps people playing and ultimately paying.  This is true for just about any game anymore.

 

 

And what is wrong with going to 60 mins and 60 rounds ?

This coincides with the level limits of Raids, which is the de facto standard the game should be balanced to.

And why should we be making purchases more attractive when DE is already swimming in the cash ?

 

 

Honestly you only have 1 shot of getting the main part which happens to be in rotation C, which is already chock full of parts.

As fellow founder, I can easily buy those parts (heck I will buy trinity prime access n a heart beat if they release her) but think of those without monetary expenditure.

 

 

Yes the game is grindy, I know that, but that doesn't mean you can deliberately make it difficult for people to farm.

If every farm meta stops at 20 rounds, this breaks the entire player economy along with it and makes it much harder for parts to be traded with.

Edited September 5, 2015 by fatpig84

[Baruti]

I have put 400 hours into this game and I think my opinion matters just as much as new person and someone that's played from the start. And MR 20 means nothing. At the the end of the day, they will change it or it wont't happen, and there's little you can do about it. I would just think forward on how to accommodate it. Like a rifle scavenger mods, mutation mod, carrier and ammo restores will keep you perked up with lots of ammo and keep you optimal at pumping out rounds.

It depends how they handle it, will it pull from the magazine or the ammo pool? If it's from the magazine, think how much you'll have to reload, and if it's from my ammo pool nothing really changes for me personally other than I'll be chugging ammo restores down constantly. Which isn't terribly fun. But what about new players that don't have that?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Baruti

[Lost_Cartographer]

And what is wrong with going to 60 mins and 60 rounds ?

Honestly you only have 1 shot of getting the main part which happens to be in rotation C, which is already chock full of parts.

As fellow founder, I can easily buy those parts (heck I will buy trinity prime access if they release her in a heart beat) but think of those without monetary expenditure.

 

 

Yes the game is grindy, I know that, but that doesn't mean you can deliberately make it difficult for people to farm.

If every farm meta stops at 20 rounds, this breaks the entire player economy along with it.

There's nothing wrong with going 60 mins and 60 rounds.  But it's up to the player to go that far, DE doesn't have to make sure a player can go that far.  As a developer, they're only really obligated to make sure we can make it to 20 minutes/20 rounds, and even without multi-shot, we can do so easily enough.  The next rotation C though?  A little harder, especially without multi-shot.  A lot of the complaints are around the concept of getting to 60 mins/rounds suddenly becoming harder like it's some sort of betrayal.  It's not.

 

And generally, players go beyond the first full rotation to get the most they can out of a key.  That's all on the player, not DE.  They have a median balancing point, it just doesn't happen to be that far into an endless mode.  Also, the community asked for changes to mandatory mods.  Enemy scaling however?  Working as intended.

 

Also, it's kind of up to DE to determine how grindy they want their game to be, and as long as people play for rewards rather than fun, grind is the bread winner for any developer.  Until players seek higher quality forms of play, developers are only shooting themselves in the foot providing anything that isn't a carrot on a stick.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Littleman88

[Unholyrequiem]

It's a cookie cutter strategy with no real solution that will only serve to damage an already frail near non-existent balance for weapons. People wanna pretend that this will provide some sort of choice. No, that's just another elemental slot. Seriously in almost all circumstances another element would most probably do more damage where your multi-shot previously was than any other back up mod.

 

If DE wants to balance out the damage we put out they should instead focus their efforts on the mobs we fight and how they scale or even overhaul the entire damage system to work more effectively with other mods. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[Culaio]

There's nothing wrong with going 60 mins and 60 rounds.  But it's up to the player to go that far, DE doesn't have to make sure a player can go that far.  As a developer, they're only really obligated to make sure we can make it to 20 minutes/20 rounds, and even without multi-shot, we can do so easily enough.  The next rotation C though?  A little harder, especially without multi-shot.  A lot of the complaints are around the concept of getting to 60 mins/rounds suddenly becoming harder like it's some sort of betrayal.  It's not.

 

And generally, players go beyond the first full rotation to get the most they can out of a key.  That's all on the player, not DE.  They have a median balancing point, it just doesn't happen to be that far into an endless mode.  Also, the community asked for changes to mandatory mods.  Enemy scaling however?  Working as intended.

 

Also, it's kind of up to DE to determine how grindy they want their game to be, and as long as people play for rewards rather than fun, grind is the bread winner for any developer.  Until players seek higher quality forms of play, developers are only shooting themselves in the foot providing anything that isn't a carrot on a stick.

 

You are forgeting about people who dont have most reliable internet connection like me, I am fine with doing with team normal non-endless missions but endless missions are completly different matter, the longer I stay on them the bigger chance me or my whole team gets disconnected because of that I prefer doing endless missions(survival) solo, and since I can take only ONE corrosive projection, game is getting pretty hard after 30 min and after 35 minutes VERY hard even though I am using best weapon with best possible build, I am going through ammo VERY quickly, which leads to me using many ammo restores. 

This change will make it probably impossible for me to reach 40 min, also this change wont increase our possibiltiies but oposite decrease them since, full team with corrosive projection will become mandatory.