What Is Your Reason For Not Using Kubrows?

[Liminal]

They are a pain in the &#! to maintain and swap.

Too many R10 mods.

[ecwp1981]

If the Kubrow had an armour with in built weapons I might use him more :)  Anyone remember this guy from Centurions??

 

[Dobermann92]

Reason 1.: I like the design of the sentinels and their accessories. They look better in my eyes.

Reason 2.: Kubrows has bad AI and dying easily even with (almost) maxed mods. Sentinels don't die often because the enemies only target them when the player is down.

Reason 3.: If I breed a kubrow I cannot use my matured and maxed one for at least 3 days (or 4 if you don't have the incubator upgrade). Sentinels however always usable and don't have upkeep cost (which isn't bad for me, but newer players don't have much credit).

[Shousa]

Biggest drawback to me is their model, they are very ugly, look more like pigs with fur. Since they are visualy disgusting i cant bring myself to even level them for mastery rank.

[Spectre118]

For me, I've barely used my kubrow, just a few days of use then I threw him into Stasis at rank 30 and went back to my sentinel.

 

I understand they CAN be really good, but the biggest, most glaring, ugly, disgusting, revolting turn-off from me using one is the simple fact that it can PERMANENTLY die. True, it's easy to prevent, but that doesn't get rid of that loathsome fact.

 

Now, asides from not using a kubrow for said reason, I didn't pay it much mind. Then I learned that you can put a reactor into your kubrow, and forma it, then it seemed even more repugnant to me.

 

I've heard thanks to this thread that the incubator upgrade automatically puts them into stasis if they get close to death, but even then, EVEN THEN, why have them DIE at all, especially when people can invest real money into them?

 

If they removed the death penalty for kubrows, then I'd use mine, especially since kubrows don't hog part of my screen by hovering over my warframes shoulder, occasionally obscuring my camera view. Though if I started to actually use my kubrow, I'd probably start to really notice the AI issues and such that I've seen constantly on this thread. Until the day they remove perma-death for kubrows (if they ever do), Umbra and Jean-Luc Picard will remain in stasis.

Biggest drawback to me is their model, they are very ugly, look more like pigs with fur. Since they are visualy disgusting i cant bring myself to even level them for mastery rank.

Well, I think they look cute, but look at the bright side, at least they don't sound like pigs like the Grineer ones!

[Rakshal]

The upkeep for keeping it alive while NOT in a mission. If the cost of keeping them alive was removed then I would use kubrows a lot more.

[DiosGX]

Ferocity - Like I said, I don't use companions to attack.

Dig - Should be a nice 'breather' ability, which makes it only variably useful, and not worth taking up a companion slot when I have Large Restores for everything.

 

Sunika:

Savagery - Like I said, I don't use companions to attack.

Unleashed - I'd rather not be subject to AI/RNG for CC, kthx.

 

So:

Why do I not use Kubrows? Because they're not worth using.

Sorry but Imma have to jump on you for this one. Only because you said explicitly that you don't use companions to attack, and thus are unaware of what they can do when set up to do so. I get that you just don't dig them for the purposes of damage, and that's cool.

Also, I'll admit that Sweeper Prime is, for the most part, a "better" and stronger damage alternative that you can actually control via physical proximity to enemies. But I have seen for the longest time, either a Sunika or a Sahasa beeline straight into a level 60+ heavy gunner/bombard and just cut it in half instantly from full health. They DO have targeting priority and they WILL go after heavies first. In fact, it pisses me off very frequently when trying to level up a weapon and my Kubrow just obliterates the big affinity gainers in front of me.

 

Now, if you're not down with companions for attack, that's fine. That's a preference and nobody can fault you for that. I just wanted to make it clear that the Sahasa and Sunika's Finisher DMG mods are very powerful. Now if only they'd stop getting stuck on the damn map on Ceres defense/interception. ;I

 

Lastly, I'm a huge Restore user. Health, energy, shield for overshields, ammo, and Shield Drones from Cephy Suda. I come stocked to the teeth at all times with at least 80 of them. However, I also play Mesa frequently when I just want to cheap through a syndicate defense because honestly I kind of don't care sometimes. A Sahasa's Dig will cause energy to be dug up at your feet, supplying you with juice without disengaging Peacemaker.

 

Again, preference is preference. I just believe that people's opinions should be as informed as possible so it's as legit as can be. What I've pointed out here is still pretty niche, but they're not worth completely overlooking, either.

 

Now, to answer the initial question; despite my immense love of Kubrows, and even being one of the first few folks to own a Chesa, I find myself actually using the Diriga instead of Carrier now because they can actively deal long-range damage and have a larger capacity for status procs. The fact Kubrows are hard-locked at dealing slash damage only is pretty awful to be frank. I would like to see a way to alter their damage types. Not even Elemental Damage mods, but Elemental Alignment altering... something. Like, some folk have discussed giving Kubrows a form of weapon. I'd like to see that, except that it would only change the typed damage, and not alter the actual values of it.

Maybe raise the status chance, but, attacking Kubrows seriously one-shot insanely tough enemies. They do not need to be stronger. At all.

[Krion112]

My only complaint is upkeep. It literally defies the game's present design to even have such a mechanic, and it is completely purposeless. Warframes, Weapons, and Sentinels don't rust and Mods don't power down, so therefore the Kubrows should not expire.

[Cinderfox]

Simply put, the inconvenience and expense of Kubrows is not commensurate to the added value of using one. They bring nothing to the table that a tricked out Sentinel can't, except for sheer adorability; they have numerous artificial logistical restrictions, they can get your party killed, and cost money besides.

Sentinels also use standard weapon mods and thus become stronger as new mods are released, plus in a way, they have twice the mod points of Kubrows by virtue of having a weapon; Kubrows must expend the samepool of points on their offense and defense.

Maybe if I could give my Kubrow my secondary or my melee (Great Wolf Sif, anyone?) we'd be in business. Or even Kubrow Weapons.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Cinderfox

[(NSW)GameV8]

I don't use Kubrows because of the upkeep. If I wanted a Giga Pet I'd time travel back to 1998.

[Cinderfox]

I don't use Kubrows because of the upkeep. If I wanted a Giga Pet I'd time travel back to 1998.

What I suspect is that it isn't so cut and dry; lots more people would use them if they felt they were getting something for that upkeep that a Sentimel doesn't already provide. If Kubrows were power with a price, that'd be fine, but they're all price and no power.

[InFlames]

You judge too quickly and assume a lot of things.

 

The fact is one does not need a clan to get Carrier or most of the sentinels.

 

A sentinel is easy to get, easy to use, has no upkeep, has no wait time after it's built.

 

There's no need for a clan or an upgrade or to spend 10k credits every time you want to switch.

 

Kubrows aren't the only companions, and in light of everything people are saying in this thread that 10k just piles up.

 

The way things are going only people who have plat and credits to burn use Kubrow. Is that the intention?

 

If DE wants the average Joe to use Kubrow, then they need to address all these.

 

Nah i don't judge too quickly. People are using scapegoats for everything nowadays the upkeeps and rushes with 10k creds are one of those. 

Being in a clan its even a more silly of a excuse for not owning one "as a newbie" since you don't need to pay to be in a clan or you can certainly find a clan where you don't need to donate because everything is built already, because it is easy and cheap to build even for moon clans.

 

Players are just too used to the Vacuum and that's it, now, theres some folk who use a certain sentinel/sentinel weapon because they like them most or because they can make good combos out of them with their play style. 

Other then that, Sentinels are not as good as Kubrows stat wise and single target damage wise. This is implying you actually mod your Kubrows and Sentinels. Bite and Maul together are OP.

Before I had my Braton prime i also had to use a mk1 braton. So everyone else has to use a sentinel before they can use a Kubrow? Silly comparisson right? Simply because of vacuum. Otherwise it wouldn't be that silly now, would it? ;)

The problem isn't just the Kubrow AI and some buggy precepts, Kubrows problem is also called Vacuum. Because either you and everyone else likes it or not, it's just as good as the old Greedy Pull. And by that i mean it needs to go away.

[InFlames]

I forgot something. This is a free to play game. DE has to make their money, if you are a newbie starting now and want a kubrow you got 2 options. you grind it, farm the credits hatch it raise it etc. and pay for it with your time. 

 

OR

 

You buy platinum and there you go.

 

This game requires either time from it's players or it requires their money for fast development. It's just like when a new prime warframe comes out. Look at the market prices for their sets, 2 options buy it, or farm it.

Deal with it.

[Epicagemo]

Chesa can't carry Carrier

 

alliteration!

[Ryusuta]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/499353-so-this-is-only-the-first-part-of-a-kubrow-overhaul-right/

 

Pretty much everything I've said here.

[Spectre118]

The problem isn't just the Kubrow AI and some buggy precepts, Kubrows problem is also called Vacuum. Because either you and everyone else likes it or not, it's just as good as the old Greedy Pull. And by that i mean it needs to go away.

 

Are you claiming that nobody at all has a problem with Kubrow AI? I don't use mine after they hit 30, but when leveling them to 30, I noticed they can get stuck and hung-up on things, and when that happens, they aren't doing damage or providing utility.

 

I doubt Vacuum is why Kubrows are less used than Sentinels. And it certainly isn't the reason for me not using mine. I don't use mine because of the ugly fact that they can permanently die. Doesn't matter if the Incubator upgrade has a safeguard to throw them into stasis before that, the fact still remains the same.

 

The costs and time associated with using a Kubrow strikes me as unneeded. DNA stabilization, 75000 for genetic stabilizers, and having to pay to switch between Kubrows just seems like a feature nobody would miss should it be removed. And correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand you only need 1 stabilizer per 4 days, however, the stabilization lowers within those 4 days leaving the Kubrow with less health until it gets it's shot.

 And even if those stabilizers last for around 24 days if used once every 4 days (48 with upgrade), can you really say that this feature is needed, or that you'd miss it if it were removed? Asides from some people making the 1 time upgrade purchase rather than making it, I doubt DE's making much money off the whole DNA Stabilization thing. And yes I know the lore as to why they need the stabilizers, but there's no good reason we have to deal with that when they could just have Ordis occasionally say "I gave your mutt the thing, I'm Ordos, bla bla bla, your armor colors ugly."

 

I'd use my Kubrow if it couldn't permanently die should I ever make the simple mistake of forgetting to stasis when playing another game for a month or so. And defiantly if DNA stabilization was removed. I don't mind the loyalty mechanic, though it'd be nice if you could give your pooch attention more than once every hour. 

 

Carriers vacuum is a great utility when you don't have a trinity spoon-feeding you energy, energy orb drops nearby, just get somewhat close and it's yours. Or for if you're using a fast-firing, ammo inefficient weapon, don't have to run over each individual ammo pickup as they just get sucked to you, made even better if you have an ammo mutation mod on. If they removed Carrier, I doubt the use of Kubrows would increase that much.

 

I want to use my Kubrow, but until the day my issues with them (or at least the perma-death issue, should this day ever come) are removed, I'll stick to using Helios, Carrier, and Diriga (as soon as it's done crafting) and the other sentinels(as soon as they're done crafting too, excluding Wyrm, already have that one).

 

This turned out more lengthy than I intended.

 

I forgot something. This is a free to play game. DE has to make their money

 

Yes, it is a F2P game, but I doubt Kubrows rake in as much money as other things. Especially when I think of how often I'm in a match where nobody has a Kubrow with them.

[_Rue_]

Updated.

 

Thanks for all the people who provided feedback!

[Carl_Bar]

Having to buy packs out of the market./ I tend to take breaks at random intervals and rarely know when i'll do it till i do. That combined with the upkeep costs is just a non-starter for me. I've got other stuff to spend credits on. Sure if i had basically maxed everything and was sitting on MR199 point whatever, then sure. But right now i've got better things to spend my credits on and i'd rather not have to breed a new one every time i come back from a break because i didn't freeze him.

[InFlames]

 

-snip-

 

I said "The kubrows problem "ISN'T JUST" their AI. Yes their AI is a problem doh :P

 

And no I wouldn't miss the DNA stabilization thing. 

The one thing that I don't get is are you saying that your kubrow dies during missions or while you're away playing other games for a considerable amount of time, like you said "a month" or so?

Because a Kubrow with 1700 shield and 2000 health does not die that easy.

If it's about dying while you're away either you gotta buy the upgrade and they are auto statis when the need arises or they will keep dying because I highly doubt DE will bother going trough the hassle of reworking that mechanic in the near future. Unless they are already working on something of the sorts while creating the "cats"

But you actually had a pretty cool idea and giving Ordis a bit more interaction with their tenno. Making him able to give the pups the "medicine" would be pretty cool and we could also incorporate that for the Foundry 2.0 where he could make ques for items construction while we're offline. But that's another whole thread to be made. 

 

As I said previously Kubrows are a lot stronger then sentinels on single target damage provided people use good and leveled mods, yes their more expensive to level up but that's something we gotta question DE about .

 

About vacuum I can just say that I live peacefully and well without it and if anything it should be nerfed at the very least to not pick up items trough walls, and decrease its range in a couple meters but that's just a suggestion and an opinion.

 

Now to the last "point" you made there's a lot more people with Kubrows on the average mission that I played lately, and honestly I think their usage is increasing a tiny little bit but I dunno. Still defo they are great platinum sinks/generators for the people who like to gamble with their colors and patterns as long as you get the right one you can get imprints worth more then 1000 platinum, that makes the market move and that is good not only for us players but for DE itself because platinum isn't showing up out of thin air :P

Edited September 20, 2015 by Mr.Pava

[Mxysptlik]

I suspect you're seeing more kubrows lately because players are lvling them to rank up for access to the new syndicate weapons.

As far as damage goes, you're right that they do more... Per hit. Because their animations are slower than all hell, their DPS in game isn't what the numbers claim. Sure, they attack 2x per second, but each attack takes 1.5 seconds to perform. See any problems with this? Sentinel DPS in game is much higher than any kubrow build can reach simply because their mechanics are stupid, broken, poorly planned, poorly implemented, poorly maintained, and totally ignored by DE.

[InFlames]

I suspect you're seeing more kubrows lately because players are lvling them to rank up for access to the new syndicate weapons.

As far as damage goes, you're right that they do more... Per hit. Because their animations are slower than all hell, their DPS in game isn't what the numbers claim. Sure, they attack 2x per second, but each attack takes 1.5 seconds to perform. See any problems with this? Sentinel DPS in game is much higher than any kubrow build can reach simply because their mechanics are stupid, broken, poorly planned, poorly implemented, poorly maintained, and totally ignored by DE.

 

Ahh pretty sure DE is looking at what you're typing right now! Their sneaky :P

[Stone772]

1 reason why I HATE using sentinels: it clogs up my screen. Sometimes it'll come between me and what I'm trying to look at, and there's nothing more obstructive. Already I wish we had a way to zoom out to see more clearly, having a floaty thing up there aggravating my eyes isn't helping. 

 

1 reason why I wouldn't use a kubrow: because they suck. Because they don't do for me what the Carrier does for me. They just run off, and suddenly I'm a lot more vulnerable than I would be if I had my Carrier with me attacking targets at the same time. Literally the only reason I wanted to get a kubrow at some point was to be able to say "I'll never have to deal with the Carrier taking up half the screen again."

 

But I wouldn't. Because it can't compare :/

[Mxysptlik]

Ahh pretty sure DE is looping right now! Their sneaky :P

They sure are! I can't ever tell what they're gonna do, when they're gonna do it, what posts they actually read, and THEY don't even seem to know the reasons behind half of anything that happens.

FYI, I'm mostly just venting some steam from the crazy server outages with virtually no communication or reassurance from DE on the worst outage(s) EVER SEEN. And on a BIG reward, alert, baro-visit weekend to boot!

[MyTagforHalo]

While the upkeep and many other features have been improved with the segment upgrade, there are still a few valid issues that ive noticed while using them extensively. 

 

 

1: the AI for MOST of the kubrow is terrible. And i think the fact that they will run into walls has something to do with their decision making process. 

 

For example, my Huras rarely gets stuck, whereas my Chesa does. I think it has something to do with it having both a: a ability that doesnt require movement, and b: a attack ability that leads it on a linear path knocking units out of its way that often 1-shots enemies. Compared to the other breeds that rely on their "basic attacks"  which lock onto, and can miss enemies, causing them to need to re-position themselves leading to pathing issues with the environment. This combined with one or more abilities that require the kubrow to change course, they can get stuck in terrain quite easily. 

 

2: The AI for their abilities can be rather dumb as well. for example, my chesa will more than often forget about loot to run off and disarm a enemy across the room. Or even if it only has the collection precept, it will still run arund, grab something then stand there for a while, instead of actively fetching. This goes for other breeds as well, like the Sunika, who wont always chase down a capture target (you know, its ONE job) or even if it decides to, it fails to actually grapple them half the time. The sahasa never digs nearly frequently enough to warrant using it over anything else.. These are a huge issue and are my #1 pet peeve with the Kubrow breeds.   I love my Huras to bits, but thats because it seems relatively free of these issues for one reason or another. 

[Spectre118]

And no I wouldn't miss the DNA stabilization thing. 

The one thing that I don't get is are you saying that your kubrow dies during missions or while you're away playing other games for a considerable amount of time, like you said "a month" or so?

 

it should be nerfed at the very least to not pick up items trough walls

 

Sorry, I rambled a bit too much typing all that out. I've never had a Kubrow actually die from DNA stabilzation, but that is what I meant, I really dislike how that can happen. The whole perma-death feature for them just seems out of place in this game.

 

And Vacuum can pull things through walls? Never noticed that, but yeah, I wouldn't argue that that needs a fix, lol.