Reworking Void Rewards: Making Void Rewards Less Frustrating And More Rewarding

[Quetzhal]

I've been thinking a bit, the idea is great, but I don't think it will happen. Why? Because:

 

Making it easy/fair to acquire void keys or forma would cause an outrage in the player base, most likely all who payed for keys will feel cheated, thus they will demand their money back. I can even see the forums being filled with: "Why should it be easier now after we payed so much money and got nothing?!''.

 

People will really crave for that optional reset.

This is indeed a possibility, but I believe it can be circumvented by adequate communication with the playerbase about their plans and perhaps arriving at a suitable compromise. Ultimately, though, it's better to make a change like this sooner rather than later, or at least communicate their plans early. Later only means more backlash.

That said, the community seems to be responding quite positively to this so far. :)

That's regarding Forma to stay on the current topic, but can be applied to Void keys as well.

[Korevas]

Getting people to pay for keys at the current rate will more likely than not be a short term thing. After the initial "Update 8!" hype is over, people will probably stop buying them and rely on gameplay, and the amount of people using the new content will likely end up trickling down. The profit works in the short term, but it's unlikely to last into the long term - and it comes at the cost of alienating the playerbase.

 

As weird as it sounds, I would be happy if player bases were so easily alienated. But I fear that contrary to the image we see on the forums, the majority of the people playing this game are not nearly invested in enough in it. They don't read the forums, don't consult wikis or anything, and generally relatively seem to be much less "educated" about the more complicated mechanics like rigged droprates for example.

 

I had a similar discussion a while ago, and someone pointed me at the infamous battlefield heroes slides, which I found very enlightening at the time. Mind you, the guys speaking is a #$&(%, and I wouldn't neccessarily agree with his conclusions, but he did try to back up his statements with some actual behavioral data, and it's hard to argue with that.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Korevas

[Quetzhal]

 

As weird as it sounds, I would be happy if player bases were so easily alienated. But I fear that contrary to the image we see on the forums, the majority of the people playing this game are not nearly invested in enough in it. They don't read the forums, don't consult wikis or anything, and generally relatively seem to be much less "educated" about the more complicated mechanics like rigged droprates for example.

 

I had a similar discussion a while ago, and someone pointed me at the infamous battlefield heroes slides, which I found very enlightening at the time. Mind you, the guys speaking is a #$&(%, and I wouldn't neccessarily agree with his conclusions, but he did try to back up his statements with some actual behavioral data, and it's hard to argue with that.

I'll have to watch that video later. I reaaaaally need to be studying right now, haha, but I keep getting distracted. e_e

That said, for now, I can say that I think Warframe's playerbase is likely quite different from EA's - they cannot and should not risk methods like that when there are subtler and equally profitable methods that could potentially earn just as much, if not more, while being fair to players. The vocal folks on the forums are also the best advertisers for a game without a huge publisher to back them up with marketing campaigns, heh, and that's the largest difference between Warframe and any game by EA.

[CptDux]

Tokens sound like a great idea. but what about when they release something new? what reason will you have to go back to the void if you have piles of tokens.

[Zyfe3rX]

I've been thinking a bit, the idea is great, but I don't think it will happen. Why? Because:

Making it easy/fair to acquire void keys or forma would cause an outrage in the player base, most likely all who payed for keys will feel cheated, thus they will demand their money back. I can even see the forums being filled with: "Why should it be easier now after we payed so much money and got nothing?!''.

People will really crave for that optional reset.

Simple solution :The server keeps logs of the number of times you have done void runs. When this system hits, all players will be given Tokens proportional to their number of void runs. Everybody happy. The players who have done void do many times by paying for keys will be given little boost because of early supporters, just like founder :)

Tokens sound like a great idea. but what about when they release something new? what reason will you have to go back to the void if you have piles of tokens.

Solution : add more stuff into void... More parts, more mats. Even a stack of those new sample. Like 25 void tokens for 10 of those samples. People will still rush into void for this....

Void has infinite possibilities if DE just uses brain. Exe. Rather than sticking with RNG...

Edited May 27, 2013 by Zyfe3rX

[Quetzhal]

Tokens sound like a great idea. but what about when they release something new? what reason will you have to go back to the void if you have piles of tokens.

That's why I included utility items in the shop, like forma and ammo boxes that autofill your magazine or even just fun items like an antigrav units that lets everyone fly around in the clan hall for a while. The idea is to maintain a token sink so that people don't hoard tokens. Put small utility/convenience items that people would really want and would keep spending on.

As for what reason you would have to keep going back: Remember, I also mentioned cosmetic rewards that are dispensed as a reward additional to the tokens, that are a bit more RNG-reliant. They're just cosmetic, not gameplay changing, but they're a long-term goal to work for on top of everything else.

Edit: Zyfe3rX has it right!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Quetzhal

[VegetableBasket]

I'm not saying this system is better

I am.

[Quetzhal]

I am.

Haha, well, thank you. :)

[Quetzhal]

Bumping this thread once before I head to bed, as I'd like to hear a bit more feedback, heh.

[SeraphicRadiance]

To be fair, just about any system is a viable alternative to the lazy implementation right now on Void drops. OP's suggestion, though, is actually quite nice.

 

I would encourage a fairly high amount of tokens for these items, though. At least make attempt to strike a balance between "LOL I GOT ALL LATTY PRIME PARTS IN 4 RUNS I DUNNO WAT UR PROBLIM IS" and a gargantuan collection of ornate handles and cylindrical objects. At least allow people feel as if they're working towards something, rather than wasting 30 bucks, or adding another handle to your collection after 2 hours of Random Number God sodomy

[Quetzhal]

To be fair, just about any system is a viable alternative to the lazy implementation right now on Void drops. OP's suggestion, though, is actually quite nice.

 

I would encourage a fairly high amount of tokens for these items, though. At least make attempt to strike a balance between "LOL I GOT ALL LATTY PRIME PARTS IN 4 RUNS I DUNNO WAT UR PROBLIM IS" and a gargantuan collection of ornate handles and cylindrical objects. At least allow people feel as if they're working towards something, rather than wasting 30 bucks, or adding another handle to your collection after 2 hours of Random Number God sodomy

Absolutely, yes - I didn't say anything about numbers because I figured DE could balance it, but I agree. You shouldn't get all content too quickly - but each run should feel rewarding, like you're actually progressing. Really, if a player wanted to, they could delay getting their weapon for a utility item instead. And if those items are tempting enough, why not?

[WuXian]

reminds me of the system for dungeons in gw2

[Quetzhal]

reminds me of the system for dungeons in gw2

I'll hope that's a good thing. :p Man, it's been a while since I've played GW2.

[Rakaija]

This system sounds awesome, except for the fact that DE cannot make money from it.

[Quetzhal]

This system sounds awesome, except for the fact that DE cannot make money from it.

Void key purchases are still encouraged! Really, it's meant to make each mission feel more rewarding, so that may actually encourage more Void key purchases - especially if they only need a few more tokens for whatever item it is they want and they don't want to grind for that last few keys, for example. Or if they need a bunch of keys because they want to try out one of those utility items the shop sells. Or if they want to get a hold of one of those cosmetic items that will sometimes be awarded at the end.

Honestly I'm sure I'd buy more Void keys with this, heh. XD

[fishworshipper]

This system sounds awesome, except for the fact that DE cannot make money from it.

You seem to have forgotten about the only way you get into the Void at all.

Keys.

Which cost plat (or a hellishly long time grinding defense, but whatever).

This is a fantastic idea, but there's one problem with it being implemented.

There's too many likes, and we all know how anything with above the regulated quantity of likes will never be added in-game.

[Quetzhal]

This is a fantastic idea, but there's one problem with it being implemented.

There's too many likes, and we all know how anything with above the regulated quantity of likes will never be added in-game.

Ahaha, that does seem to be the case sometimes... Thanks, though!

[rhoenix]

An excellent idea, and a definite +1 from me. Moreover, making Alerts much more likely to reward someone with a Void Key or Forma (and greatly reduce the chance for a flat credit reward) would help as well.

[StabbyTentacles]

I can't hold all these handles!

 

So yeah, +1 for you.

oh god yes

[Quetzhal]

Moreover, making Alerts much more likely to reward someone with a Void Key or Forma (and greatly reduce the chance for a flat credit reward) would help as well.

I do agree that Void keys need to be easier to obtain - ideally, with this system you'd be running Void missions quite a lot. I actually posted a topic where I suggested that they be rewarded for completing high-wave Defense missions - something that would be challenging and still take a good amount of time to do, without making the grind feel too frustrating (but it would still be desirable to skip that grind via void key purchase).

Right now the best method of getting Void keys is to keep running five waves on Kiliken or rushing M Prime, which is a bit silly. xD

Edited May 28, 2013 by Quetzhal

[rhoenix]

I do agree that Void keys need to be easier to obtain - ideally, with this system you'd be running Void missions quite a lot. I actually posted a topic where I suggested that they be rewarded for completing high-wave Defense missions - something that would be challenging and still take a good amount of time to do, without making the grind feel too frustrating (but it would still be desirable to skip that grind via void key purchase).

Right now the best method of getting Void keys is to keep running five waves on Kiliken or rushing M Prime, which is a bit silly. xD

I still consider there to be an issue with drop rates when it comes to rare materials (such as Neurodes and Control Modules). Moreover, making Void Keys a rare drop from enemies (with chance slightly increasing with enemy level), and Forma a rare drop from Void enemies would help greatly with the issues as well.

[Fleetwing]

I'm Fleetwing,

and I approve this message.

[Skeloton]

A fairer way of padding out the longevity with little to no rng. I approve.

[Quetzhal]

I still consider there to be an issue with drop rates when it comes to rare materials (such as Neurodes and Control Modules). Moreover, making Void Keys a rare drop from enemies (with chance slightly increasing with enemy level), and Forma a rare drop from Void enemies would help greatly with the issues as well.

This is an interesting thought. Hm.

Ideally, I'd say these would be occasional drops from bosses, rather than some grunt. As for Forma, perhaps one could drop in parts and have to be pieced together from enemies in the Void. That may not be necessary, though, if a more reliable way of obtaining Void keys were implemented - and tokens are a relatively reliable way to acquire Forma as well.

But yes - thanks, all. :)

[Quetzhal]

It seems, based on one of DERebecca's posts, that DE is considering allowing the trading of rare materials for platinum.

I don't really like this idea, as this will lead to speedfarming on lower level missions rather than having any true investment/reward ratio. I propose instead that either void tokens be exchanged for platinum at a certain rate whenever they wish to implement this, or certain platinum-only items be put into the Void shop to allow people to purchase certain things, but DE can still control precisely what they can purchase (as well as the quantity, should they wish to do so).

I don't quite like the idea of earning Platinum in-game in the current state of the game - I feel that Warframe's content, as is, is a bit too limited. That's quite a debatable point though, and I'm ultimately fine with it either way. On the other hand, I think this is a preferable method to - and more easily controllable - than trading rare materials for platinum. Especially given that something like that may be a little abusable with the material trading that will be coming soon to clans. Or maybe that's the point? Helping clan members get plat? I don't know.