Shut Up About Exclusivity

[DetergentPod]

Yeah, I don't know, and because of that, logically, I'm not throwing around ignorant claims, pointing fingers and saying that they did this or they did that based on nothing.

So you're saying DE didn't deceive us when they said they were making it "exclusive" and then release it as a loot a few month later? 

If that isn't call lying then I don't know what is.

You can't be serious and tell me to search up the definition of a word such as Lie?

That is the same as telling me to search up the word Hate or Love.

Stop trying to act like a smartass and posting definition of words that should be common knowledge.

If you need to post the definition of the word Lie as a counter argument you've already lost.

[Cinderain]

Ah, but I'm not. They did do something, they said one thing, which would be hard to forget about due to the livestream AND multiple posts about it, then turned around and did something completely different which was counter to what they said.

 

edit:

 

So based on nothing? Sure if you ignore what they said about the event and the reward being exclusive.

 

Yes, based on nothing. Calling them liars without the knowledge required that would actually make them liars, because people, for whatever reason, are so quick to cry their eyes out and grasp onto anything without ever looking beyond their ignorance.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Yes, based on nothing. Calling them liars without the knowledge required that would actually make them liars, because people, for whatever reason, are so quick to cry their eyes out and grasp onto anything without ever looking beyond their ignorance.

Yes, based on nothing

Even when, again, they said one thing, then did another?

 

Calling them liars without the knowledge required that would actually make them liars

Eh, fair enough, but their actions are making them look like they lied (saying one thing, doing another) (Edit) It COULD be a mistake, but I'd think DE would have said something about it if it was.

 

because people, for whatever reason, are so quick to cry their eyes out and grasp onto anything without ever looking beyond their ignorance.

 

Such as people using the word lie slightly incorrectly? We were given bad information, maybe not at the time, but sometime between when we were told and and the update, the plans changed AND we were not told about the change.

Edited May 28, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[DetergentPod]

Yes, based on nothing. Calling them liars without the knowledge required that would actually make them liars, because people, for whatever reason, are so quick to cry their eyes out and grasp onto anything without ever looking beyond their ignorance.

There are two cases I'm aware of that classified them as Liars.

First off they said they learned from the Glaive mistake and made the new Warframe only obtainable by Alert Missions. That clearly is a lie since they did the same.

Second they said that Frost Prime BP will be "EXCLUSIVE" (Do I have to highlight it for you?) then a few month later they release it as a "LOOT" in the Void.

 

How is that not lying.

 

What if I owe you $5. I said I'll give it to you tomorrow. Then tomorrow comes and I said I don't have it.

Isn't that a lie?

If not what is your definition of a lie?

Don't give me the dictionary definition. I want YOUR definition from YOUR moral stand point.

[Cinderain]

So you're saying DE didn't deceive us when they said they were making it "exclusive" and then release it as a loot a few month later? 

If that isn't call lying then I don't know what is.

You can't be serious and tell me to search up the definition of a word such as Lie?

That is the same as telling me to search up the word Hate or Love.

Stop trying to act like a smartass and posting definition of words that should be common knowledge.

If you need to post the definition of the word Lie as a counter argument you've already lost.

 

Yes, that is what I am saying. A lie is when you say something with the intent to deceive. Without intent to deceive, it is not a lie, that is not the definition.

 

So, over two weeks ago, they said it was exclusive. What makes you think that, at the time when they said that, it wasn't true? What makes you think that, at the time when they said that, they wanted to deceive us?

 

What makes you think they wanted to deceive us at all? Then or now? What brings about that thought process? What compels you to not look beyond that thought process?

 

Do you just need to complain about something?

 

If everyone had their own definition of words, how would anything in the world ever get done?

Edited May 28, 2013 by FatalX7

[Deathstroke2000]

So you're saying DE didn't deceive us when they said they were making it "exclusive" and then release it as a loot a few month later? 

If that isn't call lying then I don't know what is.

You can't be serious and tell me to search up the definition of a word such as Lie?

That is the same as telling me to search up the word Hate or Love.

Stop trying to act like a smartass and posting definition of words that should be common knowledge.

If you need to post the definition of the word Lie as a counter argument you've already lost.

That is a blatant LIE.

 

I dont care if every guy and his dog gets a Frost Prime or Whatever Prime S#&$. Its just that DE were repeatedly trying to motivate us to finish the event by telling us that the BP is exclusive to those who complete the event. That was a lie right there.

 

And what is really worse is, I am willing to bet that the majority of people who have their Frost Prime BPs from the event have not been able to complete its construction yet. If DE didn't want to lie and really wanted the event participants to have access to the Prime frame, they would have given it to us right there and then, once the event ended. There is already enough impossible-to-get stuff in U8 for us to grind for.

[DetergentPod]

Yes, that is what I am saying. A lie is when you say something with the intent to deceive. Without intent to deceive, it is not a lie, that is not the definition.

 

So, over two weeks ago, they said it was exclusive. What makes you think that, at the time when they said that, it wasn't true? What makes you think that, at the time when they said that, they wanted to deceive us?

 

What makes you think they wanted to deceive us at all? Then or now? What brings about that thought process? What compels you to not look beyond that thought process?

 

Do you just need to complain about something?

 

If everyone had their own definition of words, how would anything in the world ever get done?

The Vandal weapons they said would be exclusive. They kept their word. We trusted them. Then they said Frost Prime would be exclusive. Then they release it as a loot.

How were we suppose to know they were going to break their promise?

Breaking a Promise is far worse than a Lie from my moral stand point.

How do you know they didn't have the Intention of deceiving us?

Can you prove it?

I can prove how they did Lie/Deceive us, but can YOU prove that they didn't?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

-snip-

 

If everyone had their own definition of words, how would anything in the world ever get done?

Slightly different definitions would stop the world's progress? This isn't confusing lie with truth.

sometime between when we were told and and the update, the plans changed AND we were not told about the change, that's intent to deceive, since we figured it out on our own, with no help from the devs. If that's not it, what is?

[Cinderain]

They promised? Where did they use the word "promise"?

 

How do you know that they did lie, intentionally deceive us? I can't prove it, which is why I'm not making claims about what they are or aren't, and neither can you. All there is is that they said something and, over two weeks later, something different happened. And yet you still throw around claims, like an angry child.

 

I'm going to repeat myself for the 19th time.

 

How about, until DE actually comes out and says something about it, when we actually know what they did, what they intended to do and what they're doing... until then... How about we not jump to conclusions... How about we not become angry... How about we all shut the hell up and stop flooding the forums with our whiney, knee-jerking tears.

 

sometime between when we were told and and the update, the plans changed AND we were not told about the change, that's intent to deceive, since we figured it out on our own, with no help from the devs. If that's not it, what is?

 

Oh, so you have inside information and know that they didn't want to tell us of any changes to their plans. Okay, gotcha.

_____

 

And people complained before that Frost Prime was exclusive to the event. lol

 

Bunch of babbies.

 

There are too many tears in this thread, I'm leaving before I drown.

Edited May 28, 2013 by FatalX7

[Hayden11121]

They promised? Where did they use the word "promise"?

 

How do you know that they did lie, intentionally deceive us? I can't prove it, which is why I'm not making claims about what they are or aren't, and neither can you. All there is is that they said something and, over two weeks later, something different happened. And yet you still throw around claims, like an angry child.

 

I'm going to repeat myself for the 19th time.

 

How about, until DE actually comes out and says something about it, when we actually know what they did, what they intended to do and what they're doing... until then... How about we not jump to conclusions... How about we not become angry... How about we all shut the hell up and stop flooding the forums with our whiney, knee-jerking tears.

 

 

Oh, so you have inside information and know that they didn't want to tell us of any changes to their plans. Okay, gotcha.

_____

 

And people complained before that Frost Prime was exclusive to the event. lol

 

Bunch of babbies.

 

There are too many tears in this thread, I'm leaving before I drown.

You've cried the most.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[BloodKitten]

will let the frost prime go if the braton vandal or excalibur prime will be obtainable from the void.

oh wait, then you would whine about founder mean nothing other then a forum badge?

[fishworshipper]

The problem is, is that they stated several times, on record, that the rewards for completing the event would be exclusive to those that completed the event.

They went and made the reward available for any shmoe that gets lucky.

Also, some definitions of "lie," seeing as you like to throw the dictionary at us:

1.

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. Antonyms: truth.

2.

something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture

3.

an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

4.

the charge or accusation of telling a lie

5.

to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

6.

to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Edited May 28, 2013 by fishworshipper

[J-Pax]

The only reason you want Frost Prime to be exclusive is so you can lord it over other players knowing that your frame is better and feel special. I'm glad DE owned up to their mistake and changed their mind on the matter because barring players from a straight up better Frame is nonsense.

 

I'm a founder (obviously) and I'm quite against Excalibur Prime having to be purchased too, but that's a separate battle.

 

inb4: WAAAH BUT VANDAL WAAAH

 

Vandal is a side grade, not an upgrade. They have different stats, this is completely different. Get off that horse already. Frost Prime is simply better than Frost (kind of like that Despair vs. Kunai problem people are pointing out).

 

inb4: WAAAH DE LIED WAAAH ITS THE PRINCIPLE

 

If everyone acted that way then no one would ever fix their mistakes, quit being childish and see the bigger picture. This is better for the game (hint: new players acquiring parts for Frost Prime and wondering why they are not allowed to build it).

 

inb4: WAAAH WE SHOULD BE COMPENSATED FOR THIS GRIEVOUS OFFENCE

 

Grow up.

 

You're kind of fanning the fire here. I agree that some, not all, people are kind of too used to the idea of exclusivity. 

Pointless thread.

 

Again. Fires and fans.

 

Actually no.

The people complaining have the right to complain.

The DE clearly stated that Frost Prime would be an Exclusive.

They broke their promise and lied to us.

What happened when Bill Clinton lied on whether or not he slept with his secretary?

He was impeached.

If the president was impeached for lying on whether or not he slept with another woman. Then what do you think we should do to the DE for lying to us on game content?

 

Whether or not Clinton slept with his secretary had nothing to do with national safety or any of the sort. It was a problem for him and his wife to deal with, yet the nation impeached him for not being honest about his relationship.

 

You want to compare something you've twisted in your head to one of the greatest domestic scandals in history? Why? We did get a reward awarded to use exclusively. We got awarded a BP for participating in an event, no one else will be able to participate in that event and get the reward the same way. It's almost like we got a reward, but...exclusively.

 

 

Take all my +'s. Ignore the trolls. They're all kids that think if they have an "exclusive" frame, then they can show it off and everyone else will be jealous. ITT: Little kids trying to get bigger e-peens.

 

As much as I agree we should ignore trolls, some of these posts aren't trolling. They're people outraged that they think they've been cheated out of something, which given the wording is, well yeah, kind of true. At the same time - it does not matter an ounce. We got the Frost Prime blueprint awarded to us for participation, everyone else has to grind and hope to get lucky for it. That's the weight of the argument from my perspective. I value that I got to participate in the event, the BP was a bonus we didn't even know about, yet we all did it. I spent time participating in a community event, everyone else has to spend time in the void doing RNG gambles for it. That's the sum of it really.

 

I actually participated in the MOA event and have the BP. My friend also already has the frame built. We both think that all of you kids whining are acting ridiculous. I don't care if more people get it. I don't care about "exclusivity". I just want the forums to be back to talking about things that matter. 

 

I value balanced opinions but, you are antagonizing people who seem easily perturbed. Poking the bear is the expression I think.

 

This is something that matter.

The DE lied and broke their promise.

They clearly stated in their Live Stream and on Forum Post saying that Frost Prime Blue Print will be exclusive.

This is a matter of trust more so than whether or not an item is exclusive.

They already lied to us when they said they've learn from Glaive mistake.

This is what I mean by not looking at things from both perspective.

Maybe I should of added, Look at both perspective more closely and learn all the facts. 

Very few are actually complaining about it not being exclusively anymore.

 

I understand you're upset, but it's not something to be overly outraged by, is it? Aside from this do you enjoy playing the game? They've done some solid work, something that for it's dollar value is really fantastic. They will listen to us and our opinion's but not if we flat out accuse them of stuff. They aren't manipulating us to some devious end, unlike some companies have in the past. I mean the concept of DLC is just to break an original $60 game into a $60 game plus the parts you have to purchase for $15 to get the whole thing. That in my opinion is something to be outraged by. Not this.

 

Like how DE "lied"/was dishonest/didn't tell us that it wasn't REALLY exclusive? The problem isn;t that it's no longer exclusive, but that they said one thing, then did another.

 

Grow up, and realize that this IS a big problem. DE shouldn't be able to say one thing, then do another without people calling them on it (even if it was a mistake, they need to address it)

 

People need to stop saying to "Grow up". Opinions are representative of a community, if we have a lot of opinions then that makes us stronger through diversity. You may not like what others think, or may even think others are stupid for having vastly differing opinions but that doesn't mean there aren't points to be made. This forum thread is fast turning into just a flat out flame war where people are just going to wind up attacking each other.

 

Yes and once free players can farm your Excalibur prime you'll get it. I'm not whining, but don't go calling people kids because you're tired of hearing their thoughts and opinions. You don't care, but someone does. If it's not worth your time there are plenty of other topics to post about. You don't care, yet you're reading and getting involved?

:/

 

They may one day introduce Excalibur Prime as a in-game farmable frame. It wouldn't be great considering I think of it as a bonus for investing, and then people would be getting it for essentially time invested in the game. Actually on second thought I wouldn't mind that. If people are dedicated enough to want and earn the Excalibur Prime that means the players are already invested in the game. Mind blown.

 

It's like a friend stealing 5 $ from you.

 

The five dollars is easy to replace. But the fact he did it is just... wow.

 

That's what happened with us. We feel betrayed, lied too.

So Grow Up, child.

 

Yeah I get the feeling of being slighted, that we were told one thing and handed another but what have we really lost? It's not like the game is ruined,  broken, destroyed and defecated all over beyond repair by what they've done. If you're feeling utterly betrayed they'll listen to you, they don't just shut you out because you've said bad words. In the end it's an arbitrary thing that's happened. If it escalates beyond that (not that I can really see ways it could) in a way that effects every member personally in the community then they'll be fast to either find a work around that works for us or retro fit it.

 

That is exactly the point.

Yet these people fail to see it.

All they see is the cover of the book and not the content.

I bet these are the people that can't read and look for theme and ideas in a book. Only things they can get out are facts in a History Text Book.

 

Generalized and broad sweeping statements are very bad. Bad ThePieBoy, bad!

 

 

 

 

 

TL:DR - We need to stop telling each other to grow up. There are constructive points here but it's all fast snowballing into flaming each other for no benefit other than having a big old fire to argue over. Yeah, they did stuff. It's their game, it's baby steps and teething problems but all in all if you want to shout at a child you're just going to get tears. They're listening, but if you keep shouting, it's only going to fall on deaf ears. Having a calm and well organized argument that does not step into the realms of venting emotion breeds constructive arguments, and thus constructive results and fixes. Just, don't start attacking each other because your opinions different, there's enough of that on any number of other game forums, I'd really like for it to not be here.

Edited May 28, 2013 by J-Pax

[KvotheTheArcane1]

-snip-

are you deaf? They said it was exclusive, which we found out WAS NOT TRUE on release. Therefore, something changed. Can you understand that? Exclusive = not lootable after the event ends. Lootable = not exclusive (if it can be looted at anytime.)

[Quetzhal]

As I have said a few times, I don't mind that Frost Prime was released - I'd rather a frame like that be obtainable by everyone than not. However, it is perfectly understandable that many people who put effort into the event (I am specifically referring to those that put effort into it, not those that killed one MOA) feel slighted, because they were ultimately not rewarded for their participation.

That last part might seem like an odd thing to say, but think about it - in order to feel rewarded for their effort, participants should have something over non-participants, preferably something non-material (or cosmetic). Having an easier grind, for example, or plain getting to use the frame a bit earlier than the others. A tangible reward.

Right now, with the drop rates as they are, you're as likely to get a Frost Prime blueprint while grinding parts for Frost Prime as not. To people this happens to, all of that work was just immediately devalued, because they didn't even need to put all that work into the event - they could have just waited until Update 8 and gotten it anyway while playing normally.

That's what bothers me about the situation most, really, because I can completely understand those who feel slighted. As for DE, well... I think they could have communicated that they were going to release it before they did so, yeah. It would have prevented much of the backlash (well, a lot of it would just have been moved forward, but yeah).

Edited May 28, 2013 by Quetzhal

[Grilleds]

Agree with OP's message. Kind of wish he was a bit less confrontational about it. Also for the record, I got Frost Prime's blueprint from the event too.

 

Actually no.

The people complaining have the right to complain.

The DE clearly stated that Frost Prime would be an Exclusive.

They broke their promise and lied to us.

What happened when Bill Clinton lied on whether or not he slept with his secretary?

He was impeached.

If the president was impeached for lying on whether or not he slept with another woman. Then what do you think we should do to the DE for lying to us on game content?

 

Whether or not Clinton slept with his secretary had nothing to do with national safety or any of the sort. It was a problem for him and his wife to deal with, yet the nation impeached him for not being honest about his relationship.

OK, not to derail this thread, but Bill Clinton was aquitted. Apparently some of the Senators thought it was simply frivolous, and considering we are talking about politics here, there is a good chance that most of the senators that wanted him gone for other reasons, which becomes evident when you check the political party each senator was at the time and their vote.

Much like how I think these threads are frivolous complaints and I kind of wish people would stop making them. DE changed their minds, big deal. Besides, we haven't gotten a statement from them yet as far as I know. For all we know, it was a simple mistake. Either a coding oversight or an internal miscommunication.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Grilleds

[Phoenimon]

I think I understand what some of them are coming from.

 

I believe the reason the people are upset about it is because even though they put so much effort into the event, achiving the goal and getting an impressive frame that was supposibly only giving at the end of the event. Only to get a kick in the teeth after finding out later that it's now being practically handed out to the freeloaders.

 

Tell me, would you find it fair if you put so much work and effort in something, only to have the person next to you who hardly did anything and just bumed around just be given the same thing freely, after being told from the start that only the ones who worked and had something to show at the deadline may recieve?

 

Obvisouly these people don't feel like it was.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Phoenimon

[Grilleds]

I think I understand what some of them are coming from.

 

I believe the reason the people are upset about it is because even though they put so much effort into the event, achiving the goal and getting an impressive frame that was supposibly only giving at the end of the event. Only to get a kick in the teeth after finding out later that it's now being practically handed out to the freeloaders.

 

Tell me, would you find it fair if you put so much work and effort in something, only to have the person next to you who hardly did anything and just bumed around just be given the same thing freely after being told from the start that only the ones who worked and had something to show at the deadline may recieve?

 

Obvisouly these people don't feel like it was.

The problem is that someone who only killed one Fusion Moa also got the reward, and they got it much easier than the people who are now forced to grind for the blueprint. Unless you killed thousands of those Fusion Moa's, you probably are putting in less work than the people grinding for the blueprints.

The main difference that separates people who got their BP's from the event and people who got them from farming isn't work, its just whether they happened to be available to play during the event.

[Cinderain]

are you deaf? They said it was exclusive, which we found out WAS NOT TRUE on release. Therefore, something changed. Can you understand that? Exclusive = not lootable after the event ends. Lootable = not exclusive (if it can be looted at anytime.)

 

Deaf? We don't hear text. The correct question would be "Are you blind?" and I would like to ask you the same thing.

 

I never said nothing changed, not once. What I've been saying is to not jump to conclusions, to stop overreacting, to stop being so angry, to stop flooding the forums with that anger. To just stop talking about it until DE says something about it, until we actually know something and have more to go on.

 

Just relax. This seriously cannot be the highlight of your day.

[Grilleds]

Deaf? We don't hear text.

I've invented a way for you to hear text in my voice.

[Quetzhal]

The problem is that someone who only killed one Fusion Moa also got the reward, and they got it much easier than the people who are now forced to grind for the blueprint. Unless you killed thousands of those Fusion Moa's, you probably are putting in less work than the people grinding for the blueprints.

The main difference that separates people who got their BP's from the event and people who got them from farming isn't work, its just whether they happened to be available to play during the event.

But the people who are upset are the ones that did put a lot of effort into it, though. And grinding for the blueprints... the thing is, like I said, you're somewhat likely to get the Frost Prime blueprint while grinding for its parts, because the drop rates are a bit broken right now. So even those people who go "eh, at least I have it easier because I worked hard" get another blueprint while trying to get the parts and then their work gets devalued just like that. So the reward for the event was... nothing. You don't have it easier or earlier or anything. (See post on previous page for better elaboration, I have a biochem test in fifteen minutes so I'm rushing :p)

Honestly the parts shouldn't really be in the same drop pool as the blueprint. Maybe the parts should be a Tier II thing while the blueprint is a Tier III thing? Like I said, I do think it should be available for everyone, just that their intentions in the future should be communicated in advance to try to avoid this kind of backlash.

[Guest]

dude the only thing that frost prime has over frost is an extra polarity...

Edited May 28, 2013 by Guest

[Grilleds]

But the people who are upset are the ones that did put a lot of effort into it, though. And grinding for the blueprints... the thing is, like I said, you're somewhat likely to get the Frost Prime blueprint while grinding for its parts, because the drop rates are a bit broken right now. So even those people who go "eh, at least I have it easier because I worked hard" get another blueprint while trying to get the parts and then their work gets devalued just like that. So the reward for the event was... nothing. You don't have it easier or earlier or anything. (See post on previous page for better elaboration, I have a biochem test in fifteen minutes so I'm rushing :p)

Honestly the parts shouldn't really be in the same drop pool as the blueprint. Maybe the parts should be a Tier II thing while the blueprint is a Tier III thing? Like I said, I do think it should be available for everyone, just that their intentions in the future should be communicated in advance to try to avoid this kind of backlash.

Finally, someone on the other side of this debate making some sense.

I agree that its a little messed up for the blueprint to be in the same drop pool, but that is something I figure would be fixed in a later update. As we know, the drop rates are borked right now, so its a bit too early to jump to conclusions about the devs intentions.

[Cinderain]

I've invented a way for you to hear text in my voice.

 

That is quite the touche.

[Phoenimon]

The problem is that someone who only killed one Fusion Moa also got the reward, and they got it much easier than the people who are now forced to grind for the blueprint. Unless you killed thousands of those Fusion Moa's, you probably are putting in less work than the people grinding for the blueprints.

The main difference that separates people who got their BP's from the event and people who got them from farming isn't work, its just whether they happened to be available to play during the event.

 

It was still a kind of limited edition sort of thing though that was supposed to be locked away after the event. I mean, sure, there may have been some people who probably put little work into it unlike the rest. The ones who put their hearts in it and gave it their all didn't seem to care as much because, after all, they earn something that no one else possibly could. After the whole void thing started though, the same people would feel somewhat cheated as now just about anyone could get it, making all that they did just become a pointless effort to begin with.