Jump to content
DE_Adam

Psa: Toggled Abilities And Drain

Recommended Posts

Okay, I have a question...if duration mods reduce the energy cost of toggle abilities, how will this work with mods that already reduce the energy cost. And on the flip side, would mods that DECREASE duration increase the energy cost of abilities? I.E. the corrupted mods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not even 3 inches, pfff.

But yes it's nice. I wonder if it'll change how much he's played at all. His kit's a bit of a mess regardless but who knows. No more having to build negative duration just to make his 1 and 4 bearable. 

 

not sure if that imply multiple instance of the skill or if it cancel with recasting...

 

or at worst nulify the need of natural talent to recast the skill after the end of the timer (but thats cheap improovment)

Edited by Tsoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

 

Thanks for clarification, that seems more appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what exactly is the point of fleeting expertise now?

Also what are you even talking about on Chaos?

You can't recast it if even just ONE enemy is affected by it. That's why people built low duration for it in the first place.

Do you people even play your own game?

 

Mesa's already built duration in the first place. This is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

You can spam Chaos non-stop now. The only difference is that not, enemies already under the effect of Chaos will not be re-stunned. I'm guessing there's going to be either a lot of hidden timers, or the newest cast of Chaos takes precedent and resets the timer for all enemies. High duration/low duration Nyx might be sketchy, might have to stick to a good middle ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can spam Chaos non-stop now. The only difference is that not, enemies already under the effect of Chaos will not be re-stunned. I'm guessing there's going to be either a lot of hidden timers, or the newest cast of Chaos takes precedent and resets the timer for all enemies. High duration/low duration Nyx might be sketchy, might have to stick to a good middle ground.

 

Some clarification on this would be lovely.

'Cus if this is the case ^ then yeah that'd be pretty awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

having duration effect power drain is a horrible idea!

 

i assume this means negative duration will cause an ability to drain MORE energy, this makes fleeting expertise completely useless.....

Not useless, just situational. There are still plenty of builds that will benefit from it, but it will no longer be an automatic inclusion. This is good for the overall diversity of builds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

Oh! That is actually fairly MAJOR!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toggled Abilities have slowly made their way across multiple Warframe Abilities, ranging from a continual zone of AoE damage to more passive healing and crowd control for teammates.  Many of these Abilities are fun for a specific style of play but optimizing these Abilities came at a cost.  Using Mods that reduced Duration would often make other abilities worse simply to improve one.

 

The following adjustments have been made to Abilities that can toggle on or off with the intention of making every Ability more rewarding to use in a wider range of scenarios.  We will continue to monitor the balance of all Toggled Abilities after launch.

  • Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.
    • For example: Mods that added 100% duration will make a 10 Energy drain become a 5 Energy drain.
  • Drain-Per-Second and other adjustments has been made on the following Toggled Abilities:
    • Chroma’s Spectral Scream now drains 3 Energy.
    • Ember’s World on Fire now drains 3 Energy and has had its maximum duration removed.
    • Equinox’s Rest & Rage has had its base range doubled.
    • Hydroid can now recast Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm with no cooldown.
    • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.

-DE_Adam

All I see is Nox 2nd abilties getting buffed not her 4th like alot of the comments from people. Or have mixed my skills up?

 

Either way about time we see some love for these frames. DE have done good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drain-Per-Second and other adjustments has been made on the following Toggled Abilities:

    • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.

Whoa whoa whoa, no no no, no. No.

Chaos having a drain-per-second is not worth removing its cooldown.

Unless I'm reading that wrong.

Edited by Pizzarugi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"DURATION = TOGGLE EFFICIENCY" CHANGE

Mixed feelings about this change. I mean, it's somewhat intuitive and simple, but it also asks more questions:

 

* This means that Duration acts like REAL efficiency, correct? (ie. +100% duration = halfed cost, +300% duration = quarter cost etc, compared to the "real" efficiency, which has +50% "efficiency" = halfed cost (+100% actual efficiency) and +75% "efficiency" = quarter cost (+300% actual efficiency)). That sounds ok, but it seems weird that this one value would be balanced, while the other isn't touched.

* Does it still stack with regular power efficiency? If so, does it also have a cap? If so, is this cap seperate from or shared with the power efficiency's cap? Or how does it work in this regard?

 

Overall, I guess this could work out ok. But at the same time, I feel that this change is a little... uninspired. I mean, look at these following ideas how all toggle abiliites could work to take Power Duration into effect:

* Spectral Scream - Let its breath leave elemental residue when it hits targets or environment, which damages those that touch the residue. Residue time affected by power duration.

* Effigy - The roar's stun time and its spectral scream could also leave residue behind. Time of both affected by power duration.

* Soundquake - A channeled ability on the "Sniper", which has a damagebuff-ability (Sonar) sounds wrong to me. Why not make it a Soundquake bomb or something, that doesn't root Banshee in place? (Place bomb like a mine, then when an enemy gets in proximity of it or Banshee activates it manually by pressing the ability again, it triggers the soundquake at the bomb's location, which works similar to now, but with a max duration (affected by power duration) and without the need of Banshee standing still!)

* World on Fire - Leaves fiery patches where Ember walks and/or where explosions occur, dealing damage to enemies walking over them. Patch time affected by power duration

* Mend and Maim - Upon deactivation, enemies from Maim get stunned and allies' overhealed get an "iron skin"-esque cloak on them. Duration of stun and cload affected by power duration.

* Pacify and Provoke - When allies' are hurt (Pacify) or cast abilities (Provoke), they gain a selfbuff (reducing damage or increasing Power Strength respectively, also being benefitted upon the triggering attack/cast). Duration of these buff timers affected by power duration, and they are not refreshed until they are depleted. Fixes both insane energy depletion and power duration issues.

* Exalted Blade - Wave time (thus range) affected by power duration. Wave width affected by power range.

* Undertow - Upon releasing enemies, the Undertow damage lingers on them for a brief moment. Linger time affected by power duration.

* Peacemaker 2,0 - Reticle shrink speed per shot done affected by power duration.

* Absorb - No longer drains energy on damage taken, but has a max duration, affected by power duration. Still has an initial cost and drain over time, as well as remains triggerable at any time.

* Renewal - Toggle mechanic entirely removed. Simply made a "fire and forget" orb with instant heal and heal over time (which lasts its full duration on the target no matter what). Healing over time affected linearly, rather than inversely, by power duration

* Hysteria - I dunno, maybe claws' reach affected by power duration or something? Could probably think of something here.

 

^^^ As you can see by the examples in the spoiler, alternate paths can be taken for toggle abilities to make power duration interesting for them, rather than, the more mandatory-to-mod-for-feeling, "duration = toggle efficiency".

That said, I might like this more simple change regardless. Hope it doesn't cause more balancing-issues, that's all.

 

SPECIFIC ABILITY CHANGES

* Spectral Scream will still not be used much (imo). I mean, it's too restrictive and has abysmal range considering all that. And what about Effigy? Its energydrain is quite immense.

* World on Fire ... as cheap in drain as Spectral Scream. How is that balanced? And is there no incentive to turn it off, besides its drain? Why not have a similar "5x instant explosions" upon deactivation just like its activation?

* Are you sure you don't mean Rest and Rage here? If for Mend and Maim, well, I can understand the range buff for Mend, but this will make Maim even more absurd... Nevermind, seems like my hunch was correct! :)

* Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarms are not toggles, just saying.Still, fantastic change! Hydroid really needs this change asap! Question though: Are they stackable casts, or do new casts overwrite old ones?

* Chaos is not a toggle either. Regardless, this sounds like a great change, recastability at the cost of repeatable stuns sounds like a good change. However, Psychic Bolts still need a LOT of love (and Mind Control, and similar AI-units, could need some SERIOUS look at too)

 

Also "not really a toggle", but what about Zephyr's Tornado? It needs cancelability / recastability just as much as Barrage/Swam/Chaos (I'd argue that it needs that change more so than Chaos ever did).

Edited by Azamagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool, for both changes.

 

While the change is appreciated, I think Mend will still be a rather weak ability.

mend needs the ability to pull the "damage" gathered from maim on aspect swap.

 

As mend is now, it is WAY too slow to aspect swap, cast mend, charge and uncast. By time mend is ready, mates that need the hpsauce are either already healed or downed almost all the time.

Not that I mind but why is Mesa's Peacemaker not included in this...?

cause peace maker is getting a full on change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EQUINOX:

 

Rest & Ragen range buff is good. 

 

But!

 

PACIFY needs to be touched as well. 

 

It is too weak, needs 2 changes: 

double range

Per enemy costs scales down as power also has reduced effect on longer distances - i.e. apply faloff reduction to energy cost as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa whoa whoa, no no no, no. No.

Chaos having a drain-per-second is not worth removing its cooldown.

Unless I'm reading that wrong.

yeah that one is a little confusing... if chaos becomes a drain/s skill it will become as useless as rest is... bye bye 500 energy in a few seconds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I see is Nox 2nd abilties getting buffed not her 4th like alot of the comments from people. Or have mixed my skills up?

OP used to say Mend & Maim, first pages were posted yesterday, Adam corrected it this morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you not even aiming when you're shooting things? Why would you want to get up close when you have a gun. Why are you getting hit in the first place?

What are you even talking about.

I outright said you build duration on her because her best two abilities scale with duration. I even argued back at you stating Shatter Shield's amazing damage reduction. Seriously, what's wrong with you?

Do you know how to read?

Is everyone on this forum illiterate or something?

Because everyone on this forum is an illiterate baboon.

Something something ad hominem.

Nothing of substance.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These Changes are not currently in effect, Unless the Abilities Screen is lying more then it typically does.

 

The Hype is real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improvements! I like them. It gives more synergy to the game.
Now, I don't really want to sound like a beggar, but what do you guys have in mind for skills that lose duration but are not on the toggle group? Like Ash's Invisibility that has bad sinergy with the rest of his abilities, or Saryn's Miasma, that suffers from a similar problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok so i read this and thought that this change was live ocnsidering there was no assosiated update number adn the wording made it sound like it was up and it most certainly is not... so when does this go live???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now with these drain/duration changes, do you think we might see other abilities changed to be toggled?  Stuff like Zephyr's Turbulence, Banshee's Silence, maybe even Nekros' Desecrate?  I think it'd be a great QoL buff for abilities that feel awful to use or tend to go down at the worst of times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...