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Psa: Toggled Abilities And Drain

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This change is utter trash.

It reduces build diversification, period.

 

All 175% efficiency + Power STR builds specifically tailored for Channeling ability will now be garbage

forcing almost every single channeling build to reconfigured into duration focused build

 

For example, as of now, Mesa has couple builds.

1: Max duration and lower efficiency for longer Shattershield and Shooting Gallery up time

2: Max efficiency build with negative duration for maximum Peacemaker

 

Excalibur:

1: Max duration and sacrifice in efficiency to make Exalted Blade's energy cost moderate, while maintaining effect on Radial Blind

2: Max efficiency and power STR build for Uber Blade build

 

Now build 2 will be thrown into trashcan and all 2. build will be simply reconfigured to 1.

Not to mention MANY Formas will be thrown into void as well to reconfigure the specifically tailored build

 

Now before you had to sacrifice something to make a build tailored to the specific ability you liked.

It was a choice you had to make, which build you want to use depending on the situation.

When this change hits all negative duration and 175% efficiency build for channeling abilities will be simply not optimal

 

Duration =/= Efficiency DE, what are you thinking? Huh??

 

Oh boy, can't wait for more confusion in the abilities

You know your game has a problem when you have to look up the wiki to learn the basic "how does this function"

Edited by Acidulant
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Wow, this is an unexpected but delightful change! Maybe. MAYBE. Would love to know how this will effect all the other duration/energy cost/etc skill out there on other WF's. ??? There's no note on that. So will it change builds on different frames without us knowing what occurred?

Edited by Erelas

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  • Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.
    • For example: Mods that added 100% duration will make a 10 Energy drain become a 5 Energy drain.

 

tumblr_mami53FpbT1qixynyo1_250.jpg

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I like the skill changes themselves but duration affecting toggle efficiency is weird. Wasn't the point of Corrupt mods to optimize for certain builds anyway or are you guys finally admitting that max efficiency is OP?

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    • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts

 

And POOF goes the true crowd control.

 

Recasts won't stun, even if duration is over? The stun was preferable to the actual chaos for me.

Edited by NoLife
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And POOF goes the true crowd control.

 

Recasts won't stun, even if duration is over? The stun was preferable to the actual chaos for me.

Nonono. It literally just means that if you decide to recast Chaos again before the duration runs out, to affect the new enemies spawning in (say, a Defense mission for an example), the enemies that are still under the affect of Chaos prior to the recast, just wont be stunned to prevent stunlock exploits. Only the new enemies coming in will be stunned.

 

If the duration is up already, then you can just cast it, and they'll be able to be stunned again.

From the sounds of it, still having a smaller duration could still be used for multiple stuns (I think my duration is at 12 seconds), so every twelve seconds I'll be able to stun them again.

 

I'm also not sure, like some other skill durations, will also overlap or just stack. Like lets say my Chaos is at max of 12 seconds, and I recast it when they're is 6 seconds left, it'd just reset back to twelve, or something really weird, using Limbo's 1st ability as a reference, where the former enemies that are under the first cast is still counting down from 6 seconds left, but the newer enemies are at 12. Thus, needing to cast again?

 

Edit: ^ This literally made no sense, ignore this paragraph above lol.

 

Long story short, I believe that you can still stun them if you wait the whole 12 seconds as usual, but not before the timer is up so you can't spam/exploit the stun effect into essentially a stunlock.

Edited by HalfDarkShadow

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Equinox: Mend & Maim, as Maim causes damage with slash proc, I think Mend could proc puncture status without damage, to improve her resistence ability by reducing damage from enemies

 

 

All other changes coming looks neat.

Edited by razorstrike

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What about RhinoStomp and Warcry? These 2 have problems with new enemies that enter the area after cast too.

Edited by Volinus7
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I really do hope that positive duration has an effect on efficiency and negative duration has none, otherwise some mods would just become useless and worthless. Also primed continuity just went up in price xD

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Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.

 

Idk, feels very unintuitive... duration should be duration and drain should be drain?

 

Anyway, I wish more abilities would be modeled like Ember's WoF.

Valkyr's Hysteria or Loki's Invisibility for example, I don't see why they have a duration but no drain.

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Recasts won't stun, even if duration is over? The stun was preferable to the actual chaos for me.

Please, show me, where did you read this.

Also, if you need only stun, try Banshee with negative range, she's much better at this task.

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Idk, feels very unintuitive... duration should be duration and drain should be drain?

 

I agree completely. Using duration to influence toggleable abilities seems really illogical. That kind of change may end up screwing things up a lot more than they currently are too.

At least negative duration shouldn't make toggleable abilities cost more IMHO. It's way too punishing for some frames and the mechanics they are subjected to, even with DE "balancing" things out with time. It will take years considering their track records in that particular department.^^'

Edited by Marthrym
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This change is utter trash.
It reduces build diversification, period.
 
All 175% efficiency + Power STR builds specifically tailored for Channeling ability will now be garbage
forcing almost every single channeling build to reconfigured into duration focused build
 
For example, as of now, Mesa has couple builds.
1: Max duration and lower efficiency for longer Shattershield and Shooting Gallery up time
2: Max efficiency build with negative duration for maximum Peacemaker
 
Excalibur:
1: Max duration and sacrifice in efficiency to make Exalted Blade's energy cost moderate, while maintaining effect on Radial Blind
2: Max efficiency and power STR build for Uber Blade build
 
Now build 2 will be thrown into trashcan and all 2. build will be simply reconfigured to 1.
Not to mention MANY Formas will be thrown into void as well to reconfigure the specifically tailored build
 
Now before you had to sacrifice something to make a build tailored to the specific ability you liked.
It was a choice you had to make, which build you want to use depending on the situation.
When this change hits all negative duration and 175% efficiency build for channeling abilities will be simply not optimal
 
Duration =/= Efficiency DE, what are you thinking? Huh??
 
Oh boy, can't wait for more confusion in the abilities
You know your game has a problem when you have to look up the wiki to learn the basic "how does this function"

 

There was only 1 toggle ability right now that could use the duration = better efficiency patch, which is Ember's WoF (because the toggle/drain change made it consume a lot more energy than before), which will no longer require duration so then, it shouldn't get that benefit at all.

 

Picking WoF as an example, or Prism, duration already had an efficiency effect on those abilities, but it's only noticeable in the long run. Since you have to recast them, you have a cast cost and then the drain, what happens is that with more duration you recast less times, so you pay that initial cost less times as well.

For example, 10 seconds WoF costs in total 100 energy, and 15 seconds WoF costs 125 energy (this is without efficiency mods, which does not change the math at all, just makes numbers smaller).

If you recast it enough times to keep it up for 60 seconds, the 10 seconds WoF will consume 600 energy during those 60 seconds, but 15 seconds WoF will cost 500 energy for the same 60 seconds, so, the 15 seconds WoF is more energy efficient, and the only difference is that it has duration mods.

 

Though again, IMO, that advantage (the one that they will implement) should only exist for abilities that use duration and toggle, not just toggle, and that alone would fix one of the 2 major problems in WoF. WoF's major problem isn't having to keep duration, it was enemy Armor killing her damage, the second problem was ever since they made it a toggle it didn't benefit duration builds as much as before and the ability for those builds would cost more energy than it did without the drain mechanic.

 

People think that if she doesn't need duration they can get more Power Strength and bam, Ember now is strong, but nah, it's not like that. In part it's true that she will kill things at higher levels, but the difference is of like, 5~10 levels higher than with Intensify only, which is still isn't in the high level territory and it's mostly only against non heavy/armored units, things with decent armor numbers will still kill her damage, just like they do now.

I built my Ember to have 100% duration, as in, no benefits, no penalties, so I run 2 power Strength mods, and WoF is only slightly better, and again, things with armor pretty much doesn't give much of a damn against it. What actually makes me like it and find that build really good, is how good accelerant is, and how it makes WoF recasting less of a problem (which isn't a problem, it just means that you have to hide behind a box so you don't die, I don't know why people activate abilities with enemies at pointblank), the damage increase from Accelerant is really good, and cast buff is nice, only downside is that WoF costs me a lot more energy in the long run, so I can't have it up at all times, which is fine by me, I'm not a fan of damage abilities being constantly turned on, and I like Ember for being a frame that benefits and gives big benefits to players that are extremely active in the battlefield. Duration in the end is only problematic if people want to be passive, and slightly problematic because it indirectly improves WoF energy efficiency which isn't great, but now she doesn't need to be as active, so you will see a lot of players playing her passively and not using her team support aspects nearly as much as active players would. She will be "better", but her actual problem remains.

She did need some buffs, sadly she's not getting the buffs she could benefit a lot more of (like reworking the heat interaction with armor and +5 meters increase on Accelerant).

 

But hey, she's casual friendly now. All that made her intricate and required people to actually test builds rather than just look at numbers is gone now. In the next episode, we watch people complain about her damage.

And yeah, if the duration = Efficiency change is for all toggle abilities and can work in a negative, it will suck a lot for certain frames/playstyles, which is dumb since it will force people to use mods they don't use besides in 1 skill, and if a frame only has 1 skill that uses a certain stat, perhaps if that stat is important, maybe they should change which stat improves it. For example, Bullet Attractor, only skill in Mag that uses duration. If that skill used power strength to counter the penalty from not using duration mods which are only useful in that ability that and by getting duration will make all other 3 abilities worse, then her synergy would be better, or at least that ability would be slightly better, of course, this would need to be done skill by skill instead of being a global change, because then it would make certain frames too strong and get much more benefits than others, others that perhaps were the ones needing those benefits.

Edited by Sorrow0110
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hope in the end it makes Everything more efficient or equal at least, rather than make us then want to have back the actual system...

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Assuming efficiency mods affects toggle drain abilities as usual, and duration would affect the frequency of drain ticks as some people have mentioned here. Fleeting expertise would cancel itself out on its own.

 

Though that is the case, it's still worth putting on fleet ex due to the multiplicative effect of changing the drain base value versus the duration denominator.

Using a r4 streamline, and maxed prime cont against varying ranks of fleeting ex on a 10 energy drain per second ability with the formula:

 

10-fleetex eff-streamline / 1- fleetex dur - primed cont =

10 - x - 2.5 / 1 - x + .55

R0: x=10% = 4.48

R1  x=20% = 4.07

R2 x=30% = 3.6

R3 x=40% = 3.04

R4 x=50% = 2.38 (Compared to if you only use maxed prime cont and streamline: 7/1.55 = 4.5)

R5 x=60% = 2.63 (due to 75% eff hardcap)

 

When you throw in the other stuff that affects it, like BR, TF, narrow minded, the calculations change, but overall which frames have both drain abilities and also do not currently require duration mods at all? We'll have to get used to it and figure out the permutations, And it's probably a small step backward for minmaxing strength builds, but overall it doesn't seem that bad i guess?

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Some clarification on this would be lovely.

'Cus if this is the case ^ then yeah that'd be pretty awesome.

That is the case. There is no longer a cool down preventing you from recasting the ability while its active. It just wont reset the duration on those currently affected.

 

If you guys dont understand any other part let me know.

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Holy mother of Nyxes. NYX BUFF ALREADY FOR 17.5

OVERHYPE

It's not a buff. It's a major trade-off. Chaos can be recast, but the stun is sacrificed because enemies still affected cannot be stunned again until they're freed of the ability. Trade-off.

One could argue that it is now worth building for duration on Nyx. This could be a defensible point of wiew if Mind Control had an AI that isn't brain-dead. Unfortunately, that is far from being the case.

Pointless bolts are still pointless. When will we be rid of them in favor of an actually useful ability befitting of Nyx?

The worst thing is every short duration build will see Absorb turn into the most energy intensive ability in the game if negative duration has a negative impact on efficiency for toggleable abilities. Because adding that new negative efficiency to the already quite frankly nonsensical energy consumption tied to damage absorbed mechanic might just destroy Absorb's already inexistant viability in high level content, it will just be even more of a "double-tap" ability only good at knocking enemies down than it is now. Oh well, at least it will replace Chaos's stun for duration builds...

 

So, correct me if I'm wrong but basically, negative duration/efficiency builds that favored Chaos and somewhat compensated for Absorb's gluttony (up to a point) will now punish players that use Absorb to try and deal what little damage they can with it, while duration builds will lose "direct" efficiency (bye bye Fleeting Expertise) in exchange for a ret@rded "minion" thanks to Mind Control while Chaos will lose a bit of its CC and Absorb its "initial" efficiency on cast while not changing much on duration since Fleeting Expertise will now shoot itself right in the face with a Sancti Tigris when it comes to toggleable abilities. I mean 60% efficiency minus 60% duration... Yeah, that's a bubble.

If other modifications that address these problems, or if negative duration ends up not affecting toggleable abilities just as negatively, then all this will at best change not so many things in how we make our builds, and at worst utterly destroy what little diversity we could still manage to squeeze into them and further pigeon-hole some frames into the one-trick pony role. I hope I am wrong. I really do. Please prove me wrong.^^'

Edited by Marthrym
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Just because I know a friend of mine will be upset if his favorite frame is left untouched--will Rhino's Stomp have a similar change to Nyx's Chaos?

 

Edit:  If not in this upcoming patch, in a future one?

Edited by VelarozDosun

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So instead of building a never ending cast with specific mods now pretty much everyone is going to run around with powers on through the whole mission?

 

 

So when are we going to get a difficulty setting, again?

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Please prove me wrong.^^'

 

You´re right. -80%~duration/+75%effi makes no sense anymore on Nyx. You know what that means? A meta shift with the frame. And nope, that doesn´t mean: "....utterly destroy what little diversity we could still manage to squeeze into them..". So dramatic. ^^

 

 

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