Psa: Toggled Abilities And Drain

[BBYipho 423]

Part of me is sad that Mag's Bullet Attractor isn't a toggle yet.  That ability still needs a good looking at.

[--Sensei-- 579]

Looks like mesa spammers will have to find a way to fit in duration mods instead of just plopping on a fleeting expertise. Transient fortitude might not be worth it either.

You mean no one build their Mesa for shatter shield & peacemaker like me? =O

[Roboplus 1,595]

• • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.

-DE_Adam

[Kihana 1,145]

Chaos was never a toggled ability. It was duration based and couldnt be recast unless the duration ended. Theyre giving energy drain and making it toggleable and recastable. They really shouldve worded this posted better

 

Yup, I know. Nyx is actually one of my favorites, and I run a very low duration Chaos. It sounds like they are destroying that build when the entire premise of the OP (toggle ability changes) shouldn't apply to Chaos at all.

[Mad-Ness 0]

For fleeting expertise and toggle ability this is how I see it.

 

A naked Messa's peascemaker cost 25 on activation then a solid 15/s.

With the "old" maxed fleeting expertise (+60% eficacity -60% duration) it cost 10 on activation and then 6/s.

Now with the "new" fleeting expertise the activation cost will remain at 10 but the chaneling cost will stay at 15/s.

 

But fleeting expertise will remain useful even for toggle ability !

If we add continuity to the build it will become : (15/0.7)*0.4=8.57/s, much better.

While a naked continuity will only be 15/1.3=11,54/s.

 

So according to that, fleeting expertise will remain useful for toggled ability, we will just have to keep in mind to increase the duration as well.

Sorry for potatoes english.

[Deadoon 233]

For fleeting expertise and toggle ability this is how I see it.

 

A naked Messa's peascemaker cost 25 on activation then a solid 15/s.

With the "old" maxed fleeting expertise (+60% eficacity -60% duration) it cost 10 on activation and then 6/s.

Now with the "new" fleeting expertise the activation cost will remain at 10 but the chaneling cost will stay at 15/s.

 

But fleeting expertise will remain useful even for toggle ability !

If we add continuity to the build it will become : (15/0.7)*0.4=8.57/s, much better.

While a naked continuity will only be 15/1.3=11,54/s.

 

So according to that, fleeting expertise will remain useful for toggled ability, we will just have to keep in mind to increase the duration as well.

Sorry for potatoes english.

or instead of continuity you can go with a fleeting at 4 and a streamline at 4 providing 75% power eff with 50% duration.

 

(15/.5)*.25= 7.5, which is even better funnily enough. Also it costs 18 points vs 20 for modding, or with forma, 9 vs 11 due to rounding

Edited October 1, 2015 by Deadoon

[Marthrym 4,143]

You´re right. -80%~duration/+75%effi makes no sense anymore on Nyx. You know what that means? A meta shift with the frame. And nope, that doesn´t mean: "....utterly destroy what little diversity we could still manage to squeeze into them..". So dramatic. ^^

Yeah I know, I tend to be overly dramatic when it comes to Nyx... I can't help it.^^'

Though I'm really not convinced this will mean a "meta shift" for her, not yet at least. Not to mention that's not what Nyx needed at all. She needs more flexible mechanics, not something that breaks a build to make a new one. I feel forced to focus on only one thing with this change. Where's the flexibility and this "all powers should be made useable no matter your build" I've been fed for 2 years by the devs?

[Circle_of_Psi 4,270]

I'm loving the new stuff but, chuold we have more? 

 

 

1. Ash: Toggled Smoke Bomb: Smoke Bomb, now drains 3 energy per tick, Stun only happens, after 2 casts. 1: Cast: Stun 2 Cast: No Stun Cast 3: Stun.

 

2. Nyx: Same treatment, but on her Absorb Power 

 

 

Also we need some more love added to Trin

[TPtv 274]

지금 개발진들 제정신이 아니죠?

 

모딩슬롯은 고작 8개로 한정되어있는데 지속 시간 모딩을 이젠 강요하는건가요? 댁들이 추구하는 다양성하고는 백만년은 더욱 더 멀어지고 있는것 같습니다.

 

이따위 간접 너프를 할 정신이 있으면 모딩 슬롯이나 지금 8개에서 12개 이상으로 확장하세요.

 

이젠 하다 하다 별 짓을 다 하는군요 개발진들. 유저들이 DE 좋다 좋다 칭찬을 하니 거기에 취해서 완전히 돌아버린거라고 생각됩니다.

Edited October 1, 2015 by TPtv

[marshalcure 3]

Can we get Excalibur's radial blind to work like Nyx's will when this change happens. Remove the delay but only work on enemies currently unaffected. Pretty please :)

[nipuna 19]

Will Efficiency still effect them? 

Would like to know the answer to this very badly 

[chuckdm 584]

Seriously, WTF is with this? As if Equinox Maim spam wasn't bad enough already.

 

Fair point, but now playing a dark/night mode Equinox is much more viable.  Rest+Mend is a powerful group support combo, on par with Trinity if the group doesn't wander too far away.  Increasing Rest range makes this much more viable.

[--Sensei-- 579]

Would like to know the answer to this very badly 

Would also like to know this^

 

If efficiency will still do what it does and the duration mods will just further increase that efficiency, or will our efficiency mean nothing to toggle abilities now?

[Laoshottie_X 209]

Fair point, but now playing a dark/night mode Equinox is much more viable.  Rest+Mend is a powerful group support combo, on par with Trinity if the group doesn't wander too far away.  Increasing Rest range makes this much more viable.

more viable, but in any good group, night mode isn't needed and trinity will still take that place. I don't count pugs because it's purely random. 

 

 

 

And a separate comment from quote to DE, "Using Mods that reduced Duration would often make other abilities worse simply to improve one." Being a 2 1/2 year old player, I'm still going to only focus on 1-2 skills with one build and never use the others 90% of the time. Those abilities listed in the toggle section, yeah since those will get buffed, no one is gonna care about the 1-2 or even all 3 other abilities

Edited October 1, 2015 by TrueBuddhaBruh

[Kentakill 0]

se an dado cuenta q la abilidad 4 de mesa hay q mirar los enemigos para dispararles y la mira se va achicando para q centres mas la pantalla para q dispare a ese enemigo? un sirculo q se achica comforme disparas a los enemigos no dispara a los no entran en ese circulo y este se va achicando, mesa sera menos solicitada en draco para levear, y la mataran rapido po q no le pudo dar al vicho q lo tenia al lado XD ¿me dicen ustedes?

[Warayn 156]

Very hasty change of abilities of the warframes! Why you ask? Because:

1) Excalibur began to need 100% duration;

2) Valkyrie began to need 100% duration;

3) You have to sacrifice some mod to please mod duration;

4) The warframes were not exactly created for this update;

5) The mod is in need of revision under such a system;

and the list goes on to infinity(

Otimize all warframes and mods under this change, not only Ember and Equinoxe! And while that is the most reckless of features in the game!(

P.s. I'm disappointed( Don't need to reinvent the wheel, when you have a good working motorcycle!

Edited October 4, 2015 by Warayn

[Baleric 6]

Very hasty change of abilities of the warframes! Why you ask? Because:

1) Excalibur began to need 100% duration;

2) Valkyrie began to need 100% duration;

3) You have to sacrifice some mod to please mod duration;

4) The warframes were not exactly created for this update;

5) The mod is in need of revision under such a system;

and the list goes on to infinity(

Otimize all warframes and mods under this change, not only Ember and Equinoxe! And while that is the most reckless of features in the game!(

P.s. I'm disappointed( Don't need to reinvent the wheel, when you have a good working motorcycle!

^

What he said 

Or at the very least make the changes specific to warframes that need it cause Excalibur is pretty useless now, sure we can work it in favor of exalted blade but we lose all other 3 skills or the ability to add mods like rage or another defense mod (for example redirection and vitality in the same build) i'm completely disappointed in this since Excalibur is my favorite frame in the game 

way to kill it DE

[LisRestall 744]

Very hasty change of abilities of the warframes! Why you ask? Because:

1) Excalibur began to need 100% duration;

2) Valkyrie began to need 100% duration;

3) You have to sacrifice some mod to please mod duration;

4) The warframes were not exactly created for this update;

5) The mod is in need of revision under such a system;

and the list goes on to infinity(

Otimize all warframes and mods under this change, not only Ember and Equinoxe! And while that is the most reckless of features in the game!(

P.s. I'm disappointed( Don't need to reinvent the wheel, when you have a good working motorcycle!

Read this, it should also help on your build. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/537751-feedback-on-ember-changes-including-a-good-build-and-efficiency-formula/

 

My thread apparently is massively ignored due to maths but if only people would try to understand, then they will finally see that the changes aren't so bad.

Edited October 4, 2015 by LisRestall

[TheSuperneenja 38]

But this update broke my main, Fire (short-duration heal and effigy) chroma.

 

Why is every update a double-edged sword :c

[Marthrym 4,143]

It's a trade-off kind of update. It hurts some frames and helps others. Or rather hurts some builds and helps others. It hurts some of my favourite builds. Opened up others, that I unfortunately dislike, even after trying to like them since I didn't have much of a choice...

So for me, it wasn't a great change. But it probably is for others. I just hoped the devs put more thinking into it and tailored it for each frame, even if it meant more work, instead of doing it "carpet bombing" style and nuke some builds just to make others viable.

In the end there's no upside in this change yet as far as I'm concerned. But if the devs keep their word and actually tweak it in a way that manages to keep the new possible builds while bringing back the ones they nuked, this could be an actually positive change for once. Wait and see, I guess. Hope it's not a year long wait and see though...

Edited October 11, 2015 by Marthrym

[-CM-Syein 255]

Nyx's change is the happiest moment of my time while playing this game. I'm not even exaggerated since she was so pathetic in contrast to irradiating disarm. This buff is that frame's savior. 

So (I'm not one to say this unless someone really deserves it) thank you DE. 

[-CM-Syein 255]

 

• Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.

 

 

This is actually not the fix everyone thinks it is. In fact, this can make Chaos punishing to use: In order to apply the stun effect as often as possible you cannot allow yourself any mistake, like activating the ability before the timer runs out (as the mind-control effect will be refreshed).

 

Of course, if the stun would run on a separate cooldown things would be different, but it would make it all needlessly complicated.

 

Current short duration / max efficiency builds are superior to that change.

 

Well, I'm still wondering what they actually mean by "enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts."

Basically mean they won't add stack timer on additional cast, OR enemies that are already stunned before cannot be stun again? 

If it's the latter then oh sh*t. 

[xlraistlx 4,583]

Well, I'm still wondering what they actually mean by "enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts."

Basically mean they won't add stack timer on additional cast, OR enemies that are already stunned before cannot be stun again?

If it's the latter then oh sh*t.

Enemies still under the effects of Chaos will not be stunned and their timer will not refresh. But if they're within the radious of a second cast while the first one has wore off they will be stunned.

[Ceryk 2,773]

Specral Scream is still useless though, power drain was never it's problem. World on Fire is ridiculously OP without that duration forcing you to recast and spend that initial energy amount. I literally just turned WoF on and ran around not shooting anything for 20 minutes without it every shutting off in survival. Meanwhile, Chroma's Effigy some how now uses more power after this change and it's impossible to keep it up for very long even with max efficiency.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ceryk

[sailornaruto39 14]

I don't get it So what happens when you add something like fleeting expertise?

 

What was the point of this change? Shouldn't drain per second just be left to efficiency?

Edited October 16, 2015 by sailornaruto39