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DE_Adam

Psa: Toggled Abilities And Drain

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Looks like mesa spammers will have to find a way to fit in duration mods instead of just plopping on a fleeting expertise. Transient fortitude might not be worth it either.

Edited by Aggh
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Does this mean fleeting expertise affects only none-toggle abilities now? Though this has brilliant implications for chroma >:D

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Yeah, no, this sucks majorly after testing. Especially on Nyx's Absorb... Time to rework her DE, make those outdated mechanics and kneejerk/lazy fixes to exploits go, they overstayed their wolcome.

Edited by Marthrym

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Hang on a minute. Since when has Nyx Chaos been a toggled ability?

Chaos was never a toggled ability. It was duration based and couldnt be recast unless the duration ended. Theyre giving energy drain and making it toggleable and recastable. They really shouldve worded this posted better

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I think you went a bit overboard with that....

 

JmBkN.gif

 

 

EDIT: DE_Adam: As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

 

not quite so sweet anymore and on top of it im now going to be unefficent as hell. :/ looks like i will be adding some forma to my second equinox to build acordingly with this new system. 

Edited by maimus

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And Lo, Banshee remains the same. ;)

It's alright though, the changes being made are splendid enough to increase the fun of the game while developing the insight behind Why one Builds in Particular Directions. :)

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Interesting - under this adjustment, it seems that 'Fleeting Expertise' will have pretty much zero benefit for toggled abilities... Looking forward to testing this.

 

I hope you take a look at Effigy. I feel that its energy drain is far far excessive for what it does.

 

I realise I sound ungrateful, nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you for these changes.

 

With this change, the energy drain is going to drop if you mod for duration - which most Chroma players do, considering Vex Armor and Elemental Ward.

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    • Equinox’s Mend & Maim has had its base range doubled.

-DE_Adam

 

As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

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Interesting - under this adjustment, it seems that 'Fleeting Expertise' will have pretty much zero benefit for toggled abilities... Looking forward to testing this.

 

 

With this change, the energy drain is going to drop if you mod for duration - which most Chroma players do, considering Vex Armor and Elemental Ward.

 

 

Oh certainly yes, I'm not saying we won't be fine. I just thinking of how Effigy performs in comparison to other abilities, for example WoF will do anywhere between 800 and 1800 damage per second, for a cost of 3 energy. On the other hand Effigy can only manage 400 damage per second for a cost of 10 energy.

 

WoF does more than double the damage for less than a third the cost. 

 

There's also the case of players leveling the frame, perhaps after just getting it or just after forma'ing it, no room for all the mods necessary to hit the efficiency cap and stuck with a high cost, low yield ability.

 

I'm sure Effigy will be better after this, but it still needs to be mentioned that the 10 energy per second cost for it is extortionate compared to other abilities.

 

As Magneu pointed out earlier the augment for WoF also gives it better CC than Effigy.

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As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

No changes to Pacify? That is sad since it was the ability that needed it the most.

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Toggled Abilities have slowly made their way across multiple Warframe Abilities, ranging from a continual zone of AoE damage to more passive healing and crowd control for teammates.  Many of these Abilities are fun for a specific style of play but optimizing these Abilities came at a cost.  Using Mods that reduced Duration would often make other abilities worse simply to improve one.

 

The following adjustments have been made to Abilities that can toggle on or off with the intention of making every Ability more rewarding to use in a wider range of scenarios.  We will continue to monitor the balance of all Toggled Abilities after launch.

  • Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.
    • For example: Mods that added 100% duration will make a 10 Energy drain become a 5 Energy drain.
  • Drain-Per-Second and other adjustments has been made on the following Toggled Abilities:
    • Chroma’s Spectral Scream now drains 3 Energy.
    • Ember’s World on Fire now drains 3 Energy and has had its maximum duration removed.
    • Equinox’s Rest & Rage has had its base range doubled.
    • Hydroid can now recast Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm with no cooldown.
    • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.

-DE_Adam

 

Thank You!!!

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As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

So what about negative duration on toggled ability?

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As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

Cool, for both changes.

 

While the change is appreciated, I think Mend will still be a rather weak ability.

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As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

Well that's nice. As for the duration influencing toggles, i have a few questions:

- does duration influence drain together with efficiency or does it substitute efficiency entirely?

- how does negative duration influence drain? Is it a function as in: actual drain = (nominal drain)/(1+power duration modifier)? Or does it work like efficiency itself only at halved rate? So that actual: drain = (nominal drain)*(1-(duration modifier)/2)?

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The only thing I can see going wrong with this is for frames who have both toggles and fire and forget abilities. I will assume that negative duration will make toggle abilities more expensive, but fleeting expertise helps fire and forgets. The lack of it (and more duration) makes toggles cost less and fire and forgets cost closer to the default.

 

So what I am seeing is if we build towards the toggles or the fire and forgets. Then again, I don't know how efficiency mods will come into play for toggles.

Edited by R34LM

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Hydroids tentacles and barrage are unable to be recast while active, this change allows for artillery spam from hell if you want to.

I'm aware, but I'm just not sure if that's what they meant by "cooldown".

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So what exactly is the point of fleeting expertise now?

Also what are you even talking about on Chaos?

You can't recast it if even just ONE enemy is affected by it. That's why people built low duration for it in the first place.

Do you people even play your own game?



Looks like mesa spammers will have to find a way to fit in duration mods instead of just plopping on a fleeting expertise. Transient fortitude might not be worth it either.

 

Mesa's already built duration in the first place. This is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

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As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled.  Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.

 

giphy.gif

 

Come on Scott. Mend needs more than Shield Restore. 

 

My thoughts

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Mesa's already built duration in the first place.

Not for people that are using her for leveling stuff and syndicate reputation farms.

 

But I believe this is one of the core reasons this change is being implemented.

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Not for people that are using her for leveling stuff and syndicate reputation farms.

 

But I believe this is one of the core reasons this change is being implemented.

 

What?

She's capped at 150% power strength. Anything more than a TF or a small BR is pointless on her. The rest of the slots are filled with duration and efficiency. The only thing sacrificed on her is Range because nothing scales with Range in the first place outside of SG's stun, which is redundant in of itself.

Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield both scale with duration. If you for whatever reason needed more damage on your ability that kills anything without reason anyway; Peacemaker, then you cast shooting gallery. Which you'd be casting anyway.

 

This is as basic as it gets for Mesa. 

Edited by Diarist

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I hope you take a look at Effigy. I feel that its energy drain is far far excessive for what it does.

 

I realise I sound ungrateful, nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you for these changes.

 

Yeah, Chroma's ultimate doesn't really FEEL like an ultimate. With Atlas coming into play, it's gonna feel even more underwhelming (seeing as Atlas' summons 2 pets that move around and attack).

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Interesting!

Otherwise someone can explain me better Nyx's changes about Chaos please because I didn't really get it. :s

Edited by CGs_Knackie

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