Aggh 4,909 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Looks like mesa spammers will have to find a way to fit in duration mods instead of just plopping on a fleeting expertise. Transient fortitude might not be worth it either. Edited September 30, 2015 by Aggh Link to post Share on other sites
jwya 135 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Does this mean fleeting expertise affects only none-toggle abilities now? Though this has brilliant implications for chroma >:D Link to post Share on other sites
Marthrym 4,162 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Yeah, no, this sucks majorly after testing. Especially on Nyx's Absorb... Time to rework her DE, make those outdated mechanics and kneejerk/lazy fixes to exploits go, they overstayed their wolcome. Edited September 30, 2015 by Marthrym Link to post Share on other sites
lioganda 158 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hang on a minute. Since when has Nyx Chaos been a toggled ability? Chaos was never a toggled ability. It was duration based and couldnt be recast unless the duration ended. Theyre giving energy drain and making it toggleable and recastable. They really shouldve worded this posted better Link to post Share on other sites
maimus 195 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) I think you went a bit overboard with that.... EDIT: DE_Adam: As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. not quite so sweet anymore and on top of it im now going to be unefficent as hell. :/ looks like i will be adding some forma to my second equinox to build acordingly with this new system. Edited September 30, 2015 by maimus Link to post Share on other sites
Kid_Psychotic 28 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 And Lo, Banshee remains the same. ;)It's alright though, the changes being made are splendid enough to increase the fun of the game while developing the insight behind Why one Builds in Particular Directions. :) Link to post Share on other sites
Varzy 1,780 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Interesting - under this adjustment, it seems that 'Fleeting Expertise' will have pretty much zero benefit for toggled abilities... Looking forward to testing this. I hope you take a look at Effigy. I feel that its energy drain is far far excessive for what it does. I realise I sound ungrateful, nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you for these changes. With this change, the energy drain is going to drop if you mod for duration - which most Chroma players do, considering Vex Armor and Elemental Ward. Link to post Share on other sites
DE_Adam 21,106 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Equinox’s Mend & Maim has had its base range doubled.-DE_Adam As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. Link to post Share on other sites
DeMonkey 42,731 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Interesting - under this adjustment, it seems that 'Fleeting Expertise' will have pretty much zero benefit for toggled abilities... Looking forward to testing this. With this change, the energy drain is going to drop if you mod for duration - which most Chroma players do, considering Vex Armor and Elemental Ward. Oh certainly yes, I'm not saying we won't be fine. I just thinking of how Effigy performs in comparison to other abilities, for example WoF will do anywhere between 800 and 1800 damage per second, for a cost of 3 energy. On the other hand Effigy can only manage 400 damage per second for a cost of 10 energy. WoF does more than double the damage for less than a third the cost. There's also the case of players leveling the frame, perhaps after just getting it or just after forma'ing it, no room for all the mods necessary to hit the efficiency cap and stuck with a high cost, low yield ability. I'm sure Effigy will be better after this, but it still needs to be mentioned that the 10 energy per second cost for it is extortionate compared to other abilities. As Magneu pointed out earlier the augment for WoF also gives it better CC than Effigy. Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon1951 2,826 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So if someone can enlighten me, so what mods will we not need anymore for example for Equinox? Link to post Share on other sites
God_is_a_Cat_Girl 2,751 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. No changes to Pacify? That is sad since it was the ability that needed it the most. Link to post Share on other sites
RainbowCandyCat 276 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Nice! Time to forma valkyr now. Link to post Share on other sites
VoidWraith 1,175 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Toggled Abilities have slowly made their way across multiple Warframe Abilities, ranging from a continual zone of AoE damage to more passive healing and crowd control for teammates. Many of these Abilities are fun for a specific style of play but optimizing these Abilities came at a cost. Using Mods that reduced Duration would often make other abilities worse simply to improve one. The following adjustments have been made to Abilities that can toggle on or off with the intention of making every Ability more rewarding to use in a wider range of scenarios. We will continue to monitor the balance of all Toggled Abilities after launch. Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.For example: Mods that added 100% duration will make a 10 Energy drain become a 5 Energy drain. Drain-Per-Second and other adjustments has been made on the following Toggled Abilities:Chroma’s Spectral Scream now drains 3 Energy. Ember’s World on Fire now drains 3 Energy and has had its maximum duration removed. Equinox’s Rest & Rage has had its base range doubled. Hydroid can now recast Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm with no cooldown. Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts. -DE_Adam Thank You!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Shafilp 2,543 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. So what about negative duration on toggled ability? Link to post Share on other sites
Shifted 7,372 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. Cool, for both changes. While the change is appreciated, I think Mend will still be a rather weak ability. Link to post Share on other sites
Autongnosis 4,093 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields.Well that's nice. As for the duration influencing toggles, i have a few questions:- does duration influence drain together with efficiency or does it substitute efficiency entirely? - how does negative duration influence drain? Is it a function as in: actual drain = (nominal drain)/(1+power duration modifier)? Or does it work like efficiency itself only at halved rate? So that actual: drain = (nominal drain)*(1-(duration modifier)/2)? Link to post Share on other sites
R34LM 4,535 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) The only thing I can see going wrong with this is for frames who have both toggles and fire and forget abilities. I will assume that negative duration will make toggle abilities more expensive, but fleeting expertise helps fire and forgets. The lack of it (and more duration) makes toggles cost less and fire and forgets cost closer to the default. So what I am seeing is if we build towards the toggles or the fire and forgets. Then again, I don't know how efficiency mods will come into play for toggles. Edited September 30, 2015 by R34LM Link to post Share on other sites
AkerTheSpjot 844 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hydroids tentacles and barrage are unable to be recast while active, this change allows for artillery spam from hell if you want to.I'm aware, but I'm just not sure if that's what they meant by "cooldown". Link to post Share on other sites
Diarist 1,858 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So what exactly is the point of fleeting expertise now? Also what are you even talking about on Chaos? You can't recast it if even just ONE enemy is affected by it. That's why people built low duration for it in the first place. Do you people even play your own game? Looks like mesa spammers will have to find a way to fit in duration mods instead of just plopping on a fleeting expertise. Transient fortitude might not be worth it either. Mesa's already built duration in the first place. This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Link to post Share on other sites
AM-Bunny 30,276 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As a point of clarification it is actually Rest and Rage that has had its range doubled. Mend and Maim is unchanged...with exception that Mend can now heal shields. Come on Scott. Mend needs more than Shield Restore. My thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
xlraistlx 4,583 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Mesa's already built duration in the first place. Not for people that are using her for leveling stuff and syndicate reputation farms. But I believe this is one of the core reasons this change is being implemented. Link to post Share on other sites
Blackout751 2,063 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You did it. You actually did it. You saved Ember and Nyx, at long last. I'm... surprised, to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites
Diarist 1,858 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Not for people that are using her for leveling stuff and syndicate reputation farms. But I believe this is one of the core reasons this change is being implemented. What? She's capped at 150% power strength. Anything more than a TF or a small BR is pointless on her. The rest of the slots are filled with duration and efficiency. The only thing sacrificed on her is Range because nothing scales with Range in the first place outside of SG's stun, which is redundant in of itself. Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield both scale with duration. If you for whatever reason needed more damage on your ability that kills anything without reason anyway; Peacemaker, then you cast shooting gallery. Which you'd be casting anyway. This is as basic as it gets for Mesa. Edited September 30, 2015 by Diarist Link to post Share on other sites
Cradicias 1,848 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I hope you take a look at Effigy. I feel that its energy drain is far far excessive for what it does. I realise I sound ungrateful, nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you for these changes. Yeah, Chroma's ultimate doesn't really FEEL like an ultimate. With Atlas coming into play, it's gonna feel even more underwhelming (seeing as Atlas' summons 2 pets that move around and attack). Link to post Share on other sites
CGs_Knackie 2,514 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Interesting! Otherwise someone can explain me better Nyx's changes about Chaos please because I didn't really get it. :s Edited September 30, 2015 by CGs_Knackie Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts