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weezedog

Major Nerf: Negative Duration Increases Energy Per Second Consumed On Toggled Abilities

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It is as I feared. Per the new abilities screen that shows the affects of mods, negative duration from mods like Fleeting Expertise and Transient Fortitude definitely increases the amount of energy used per second.

I haven't done thorough testing, but it does seem to be a big nerf to builds for toggled abilities that sacrificed (previously unneeded) duration. Even though toggled abilities don't need duration, you now must have positive duration in order to hit the effeciency cap.

As an example, my max range/max effeciency Equinox build is now consuming 50% more energy per second because I'm at 50% duration from Fleeting.. Maim used to use 1.25 eps and now it is 2.5 eps. Adding Transient Fortitude brings it to 5.56 eps, or WORSE than the unmodded base of 5 eps even though I'm technically at 175 effeciency.

DE is completely forcing duration mods down our throats. I thought this change was supposed to make it easier to mod for toggled abilities not harder?

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Part of me is fairly confident that this was an intentional jab at fleeting expertise having no downsides on Toggled abilities. Well at the very least TR and FE now have seemingly tangible downsides like OE and BR/NM for those who want to use them, which i'm going to assume DE wants.

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I loathe this change. It has zero positives for any of my builds and positively eviscerates high Power Exalted Blade builds.

 

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if there were more ways to get your hands on Efficiency, but there bloody well isn't.

 

Please revert this horrible, horrible change. Until we have some goddamn choice in how to reach the Effciency cap, all that is being accomplished is dragging down every bloody channeled power in the game and their associated frames.

 

If channeled powers are too strong they should be properly nerfed, not hamstrung by a change to the mod system.

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Part of me is fairly confident that this was an intentional jab at fleeting expertise having no downsides on Toggled abilities. Well at the very least TR and FE now have seemingly tangible downsides like OE and BR/NM for those who want to use them, which i'm going to assume DE wants.

it's less "there's upsides and downsides" and more "you should stop using this mod entirely now"

 

of course the entire playerbase views removing choices as expanding choices

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it's less "there's upsides and downsides" and more "you should stop using this mod entirely now"

 

of course the entire playerbase views removing choices as expanding choices

 

From what I've been able to calculate, Fleeting Expertise still decreases the cost of channeled abilities, as duration modifies the time you can keep a toggled ability up by the percentage, while efficiency reduces the cost per second by the percentage. Duration provides less of a benefit then efficiency does, so Fleeting Expertise still has use.

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From what I've been able to calculate, Fleeting Expertise still decreases the cost of channeled abilities, as duration modifies the time you can keep a toggled ability up by the percentage, while efficiency reduces the cost per second by the percentage. Duration provides less of a benefit then efficiency does, so Fleeting Expertise still has use.

i want to see a test

 

even so, lots of toggled abilities use power strength, and now they are unnecessarily burdened by this additional requirement while the majority of abilities that aren't toggled but primarily rely on power strength do not rely on duration, which means that whatever good was intended by this change is overwhelmingly unsupported by the rest of warframe, and does not bring any kind of balance whatsoever to the other cases of unbridled min/maxing

 

on the other hand, if we increase duration, we either have to shove other mods aside which are also vital to the build, or we replace efficiency mods, which has a negative impact on the other abilities, shunting the focus towards one button gameplay, which is something i thought we were trying to avoid, and also places more favor on frames that aren't majorly affected by the downsides of max efficiency/power

 

(why did we even remove ability mods if we end up having to make builds that focus on only one ability)

 

if efficiency is actually significantly stronger than negative duration adjustments, then the power drain shouldn't be increasing by this much, or duration adjustments on toggled abilities should be capped like efficiency adjustments

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well the change is pretty much terrible, fleeting literally doesn't do anything on energy drain ability now. U got 60% efficiency but then reduced by that 60% duration. It's like...nothing...well U still get a little bit of efficiency somewhere around 30% if my math is correct but seriously...what the hek?

 

Pfff, mod diversity, It's like forcing people to have duration mods on. What's so diversity about that? it's completely opposite. 

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well the change is pretty much terrible, fleeting literally doesn't do anything on energy drain ability now. U got 60% efficiency but then reduced by that 60% duration. It's like...nothing...well U still get a little bit of efficiency somewhere around 30% if my math is correct but seriously...what the hek?

 

Pfff, mod diversity, It's like forcing people to have duration mods on. What's so diversity about that? it's completely opposite. 

The problem here would be that people are modding their frames for one ability, and only one ability... Most likely because that one ability is so goddamn strong it pretty much makes the rest of the kit useless in comparison. 

Besides that, I think it's unlikely you'll ever get to see your abilities take all the benefits without any of the downsides of corrupted mods. 

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The problem here would be that people are modding their frames for one ability, and only one ability... Most likely because that one ability is so goddamn strong it pretty much makes the rest of the kit useless in comparison. 

Besides that, I think it's unlikely you'll ever get to see your abilities take all the benefits without any of the downsides of corrupted mods.

Corrupted mods force you to do exactly that, mod for one ability, at least in most cases. But we didn't create those mods, DE did, so don't blame players for using them.

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roughly half of the frames either have their most effective builds not touched by the downsides or use the downsides as core mechanics though

 

if efficiency was such a huge issue, they should have addressed that instead of the convoluted thing they're doing now

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This changed needs to be reverted. It destroys builds completely.

 

 

I just played night Equinox and I definitely felt the difference. With Pacify and Mend active, the energy drain was WAY more than it used to be

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Some people here are crying crocodile tears re. "loss of diversity"; they're not fooling anyone.  FE is and has been for a long time, one of the most "mandatory" mods in the game, and its down-side negligible, or even positively desirable with some builds.

 

Whether this is the right fix for that, I don't know, but something had to be done.

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Some people here are crying crocodile tears re. "loss of diversity"; they're not fooling anyone.  FE is and has been for a long time, one of the most "mandatory" mods in the game, and its down-side negligible, or even positively desirable with some builds.

 

Whether this is the right fix for that, I don't know, but something had to be done.

What I don't understand is how nobody read DE's change list and thought that negative duration wouldn't have a negative effect on those abilities.

 

That's the way it reads straight up.  They just didn't mention duration's effect in a negative light so people wouldn't pre-cry all over the forums.

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the problem with this is abilities like mend and maim that have a start cost of 50 and then a drain cost as well. u can't mod for both. it's impossible.

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It should have been this way from the start.

 

I knew that something was coming eventually, no way would DE let us get away with Fleeting having no downsides forever.

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What I don't like is that instead of building for very specific things on a select few frames (Mesa, Equinox, Banshee, Excalibur), we now need to build for general use and, as such, having 3 loadouts for those frames is a bit redundant.  Furthermore, other 4-spammers (such as Ash) get to use their abilities, as powerful as they are, just as well as before this update (not that it matters, it's just an example).

 

Therefore, it can be conjectured the type of player for whom this change was made for will simply jump on those frames that allow them to do what they enjoyed doing before and those who enjoyed a specificity in builds or min-maxing are left feeling disappointed by the entire thing.

 

Believe or not, there are some players who simply enjoy building toys (frames and weapons) to see how they can optimize their use.  To me, for example, it's a satisfying part of the Warframe experience and one of the reasons I find nerfs (or, just as often, mindless buffs) a bit vexing.

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What I don't like is that instead of building for very specific things on a select few frames (Mesa, Equinox, Banshee, Excalibur), we now need to build for general use and, as such, having 3 loadouts for those frames is a bit redundant.  Furthermore, other 4-spammers (such as Ash) get to use their abilities, as powerful as they are, just as well as before this update (not that it matters, it's just an example).

 

Therefore, it can be conjectured the type of player for whom this change was made for will simply jump on those frames that allow them to do what they enjoyed doing before and those who enjoyed a specificity in builds or min-maxing are left feeling disappointed by the entire thing.

 

Believe or not, there are some players who simply enjoy building toys (frames and weapons) to see how they can optimize their use.  To me, for example, it's a satisfying part of the Warframe experience and one of the reasons I find nerfs (or, just as often, mindless buffs) a bit vexing.

i am one of those players i love building my frames and weapons to optomize as much as i can its the very fun part of warframe for me and it keeps me coming back =( i hope they fix this

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on a channeled ability fleeting expertise now acts as a second streamline at max rank in the fact that it reduces duration by 60% which reduces efficiency by 30% given the 100% duration / 50% efficiency ration stated by DE in the patch notes. now this results in you only gaining 30% of the original 60% efficiency from fleeting expertise. long story short? use narrow minded where plausible where not plausible continuity and constitution are more generally effective as not only do they provide benefit to channeled abilities they provide benefit to your you know OTHER 3 abilities on those frames aka mesa has shattershield use it please excalibur has radial blind use it please. Im sorry but your just going to have to accept that fleeting expertise exists for frames like trinity and ash and volt but doesnt work well on channeled ability frames same way you wouldnt use blind rage on a nyx. or use redirection on a valkyr

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Stop crying everyone, damnit man just adapt.. Some builds where crazy OP and now arent and you need to change a bit.. It gets a bit harder for some classes, big deal.. 

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Oberon's renewall got pretty @(*()$ oblitherated by this mod.

 

It's downside already made it weaker, now? Yeah right.

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The problem with this is that people tend to swoon over a single power thinking that the power wouldn't change.

I guess Trinity's goddarn useless now.

Four or so nerfs.

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By this same logic, in next patch abilities with no duration will have their energy cost increased in case of negative duration, "because there has to be downsides". :O

Anyway, toggled ability frames will now have to build for duration. Poor Ember. The patch that removed stupid timer on her ulty also introduced this new mechanic that still means she needs duration.

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By this same logic, in next patch abilities with no duration will have their energy cost increased in case of negative duration, "because there has to be downsides". :O

Anyway, toggled ability frames will now have to build for duration. Poor Ember. The patch that removed stupid timer on her ulty also introduced this new mechanic that still means she needs duration.

 ikr poor ember , this change was dumb as f uck

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