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weezedog

Major Nerf: Negative Duration Increases Energy Per Second Consumed On Toggled Abilities

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The only people are the people who use Transient Fortitude and Fleeting Expertise and do not the rest of the required mods to compensate.

 

I can compensate because of the forma in my frames and because i have most of the mods. It made it difficult for people like me. It made it impossible who don't have Primed Continuity Maxed or Maxed Narrow Minded.

 

It kinda forces people to build for one thing, that is the toggled ability, as opposed to the variation we had before. Given that most people use 1-2 abilities anyway, kinda makes the fact that DE removed Ability mods and 2 Warframe slots to encourage varied power use, pointless for these frames.

 

Although, it does make EV Trinity more useful if people just ignore efficiency and/or duration...

 

Hmm...

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Stop crying everyone, damnit man just adapt.. Some builds where crazy OP and now arent and you need to change a bit.. It gets a bit harder for some classes, big deal.. 

It REALLY hurts knowing people really think that this is not a problem.

Nope, DE puts in a poorly thought out change to the game and then we are supposed to adapt to it.

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Bear in mind a good chunk of toggle frames aren't really affected by Narrow minded.

Mesa PM, Excal EB, Valkyr Hysteria, Chroma Effigy all have fixed engagement ranges.

So adding Duration back to them is no loss.

 

Blind Mirage is somewhat affected, but most people don't build Prism Mirage for damage, so it is manageable I guess.

 

Main losers are still Equinox and Ember.

Which I think DE should be looking into it.

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Good builds? On what. Remember that only toggables are affected. Let me see...Excalibur, Mesa, Equinox, Banshee, Ember, Nyx. 3 of those frames are bad if built only for the ultimate. Excal can tolerate duration builds, as does Equinox and Mesa. Ember is meh anyway.

Sorry, but if you mean with "good builds" a one trick-pony build, you have quite a different concept of good build than I do.

Did you read his post?

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Bear in mind a good chunk of toggle frames aren't really affected by Narrow minded.

Mesa PM, Excal EB, Valkyr Hysteria, Chroma Effigy all have fixed engagement ranges.

So adding Duration back to them is no loss.

Blind Mirage is somewhat affected, but most people don't build Prism Mirage for damage, so it is manageable I guess.

Main losers are still Equinox and Ember.

Which I think DE should be looking into it.

Wrong, peacemaker is affected by range mod as of 17.5

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Bear in mind a good chunk of toggle frames aren't really affected by Narrow minded.

Mesa PM, Excal EB, Valkyr Hysteria, Chroma Effigy all have fixed engagement ranges.

So adding Duration back to them is no loss.

 

Blind Mirage is somewhat affected, but most people don't build Prism Mirage for damage, so it is manageable I guess.

 

Main losers are still Equinox and Ember.

Which I think DE should be looking into it.

 

FYI Mesa's Peacemaler's field of view targeting ring shrinks by negative range so it absolutely is affected by narrowminded. 

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Totally aghast by the recent nerf.

Hope they revert soon. It just doesn't make sense to link duration to energy drain

It makes a lot of sense.

Back in the day there were no toggles; all current toggles that existed back then were duration powers. The duration stat effectively increases the efficiency of duration powers by giving more time per energy point spent. When they turned a bunch of duration powers into toggles (Absorb comes to mind as the most infamous example) they simultaneously got more flexible (no consequence for miscasting) as well as much more energy-efficient, all with no real downside. I had assumed that their costs would also be adjusted by duration mods (to emulate the old costs-per-second,) but was shocked to find that they had just been blanket-buffed.

DE probably wishes they had made this change in the first place. Toggles were originally implemented for flexibility's sake (things like Absorb and Sound Quake locked you in for the duration, which could get pretty bad after the release of Narrow Minded and Constution made 40+second casts possible, but could be annoying and cost you the mission even with lower durations due to not being able to save the pod, or revive a teammate, etc.) Making the relevant abilities hyper-flexible and hyper-efficient, all while ALSO removing the need for duration mods, was a major oversight that caused design issues that persisted until the recent changes.

Let's wait until the new Starchart and the weapon mod shake-up to happen before we get up in arms about this change. Until then, use your brain and determine what builds are possible and which will work for your play-style.

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Wrong, peacemaker is affected by range mod as of 17.5

 

 

FYI Mesa's Peacemaler's field of view targeting ring shrinks by negative range so it absolutely is affected by narrowminded. 

 

You mean the targeting ring ?

Honestly I don't think it is a big deal, personally I have being using PM at 79% power range, seems fine as long I shoot within my screen.

I just reset after it goes down to half.

 

No loss to me. Maybe it is my 2k DPI mouse, so I can swing around very quickly.

But if she had lost PM shooting 50m range, then it will be a significant nerf.

 

But the recticle is fine really.

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You mean the targeting ring ?

Honestly I don't think it is a big deal, personally I have being using PM at 79% power range, seems fine as long I shoot within my screen.

I just reset after it goes down to half.

 

No loss to me. Maybe it is my 2k DPI mouse, so I can swing around very quickly.

But if she had lost PM shooting 50m range, then it will be a significant nerf.

 

But the recticle is fine really.

Range is fixed at 50m regardless of mods.  The shrinking reticle is actually good since now you can prevent it from shooting irrelevant targets by actually aiming at priority targets.  

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it's less "there's upsides and downsides" and more "you should stop using this mod entirely now"

 

of course the entire playerbase views removing choices as expanding choices

I know, what is up with that mentality. got in an argument the other day with a guy saying WOWs new talent system gives you more choices than the old talent trees.

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lol...

 

"on noes i have to blind enemies longer with higher duration on my Excalibur and my powers last longer on chroma as a result, please make it so you have to mod for your ultimate power or none at all pls"

 

sums up most of these comments here. 

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please fix this DE this is just maddness you cant build the frames how you want anymore you are the ones who want "balance" but you throw this ball at us thinking we wouldnt catch it come one this will make your player base new and old think about leaving or giving up on this cuz its one F*** up after another please read the forums and fix this or revert or your players will riot

I completely agree with you. I play Equinox a fair bit and with the new duration and efficiency changes just to get 1 energy drain per second on Mend&Maim I find my self having to sacrifice power strength just to do so, which is really starting to annoy me. I myself find that with the changes it has really destroyed the frames that I once loved to play. 

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I completely agree with you. I play Equinox a fair bit and with the new duration and efficiency changes just to get 1 energy drain per second on Mend&Maim I find my self having to sacrifice power strength just to do so, which is really starting to annoy me. I myself find that with the changes it has really destroyed the frames that I once loved to play. 

Weighing between having strong abilities or more efficient abilities? 

Sounds like the patch is working as intended so far. 

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As more and more complaints pop up in this thread, I'm getting the feeling that this patch is actually doing exactly what it was intended to do.

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This nerf just resurface a age old problem of lacking mod slot since the introduce of augment mod. I willing to bet we will be getting a new exilus slot for augment mod only to induce more grinding.

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This nerf just resurface a age old problem of lacking mod slot since the introduce of augment mod. I willing to bet we will be getting a new exilus slot for augment mod only to induce more grinding.

This has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.

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lol...

 

"on noes i have to blind enemies longer with higher duration on my Excalibur and my powers last longer on chroma as a result, please make it so you have to mod for your ultimate power or none at all pls"

 

sums up most of these comments here. 

What If I told you I don't want Chroma's abilities to last? Re-casting Elemental Ward buffs my stats so no.​

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I understand why they did this. But it would be alleviated if there was another way to get at least 50% power efficiency. It ruined my Excalibur Prime build, and now I have to deal with having quite a lot less damage, which Excalibur was great for late game damage but now struggles having to over-mod to keep up duration to even use his ult.

 

And on top of the -in-direct nerf to Excalibur, I can no longer use my Slash Dash and Radial blind because I can't go for energy efficiency any more. So now it's really just press 4 to play Excal. A really counter-intuitive move.

 

They should've given Bigo'Asseer a Primed Streamline or something with a cap of 50% power efficiency. 

 

But in all seriousness, I really want them to just make it so only positive duration affects toggled abilities. Negative should have no effect on its base stat, and then keep it like it is where power efficiency makes the power ticks less.

 

It ruined a lot of other builds as well on almost every Warframe with a toggled ability. They can no longer go for power efficiency on their builds which removes their ability to use anything else other than their toggled abilities. Want more diversity? Nope, now you can only press 4 on Mesa, or Excalibur and if you don't bye bye energy pool.

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I play her almost exclusively in night form

 

Ah, good!

 

Then you are undoubtedly familiar with that Warframe's current predicament.  It does beg the question as to why then you made such sweeping generalizations in your earlier comment.

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Want more diversity? Nope, now you can only press 4 on Mesa, or Excalibur and if you don't bye bye energy pool.

 

Or you could try pressing cheaper things like 1, 2 and 3.

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Or you could try pressing cheaper things like 1, 2 and 3.

 

Read it, first. If you're using abilities that cost 25, 50, and 75 energy often, you will quickly run out of energy. This is seen when playing Excalibur like he was before this change with dashing around and blinding enemies. You may be able to take out two or three groups now before running out of energy because you can no longer run Streamline/Fleeting Expertise.

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Ah, good!

 

Then you are undoubtedly familiar with that Warframe's current predicament.  It does beg the question as to why then you made such sweeping generalizations in your earlier comment.

I honestly have not really run into the problems you mentioned just using Streamline and continuity, which was my point, corrupted mods are not needed, but can give you different build options. They dont make or break any frames I can think of.

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