Hek Shooting Sound

[StickyBaseline]

it's just a shotgun, not an artillery cannon

Yeah it is, it's a freaking QUAD barrel shotgun, it fires with 4 barrels, not 1, it should be loud. 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

-No improved reverb tail (changes with environment, the sound that happens after the initial gunshot)

-Was way too loud compared with all other current weapons

-No variations on each shot (was only one sample, which gets fatiguing)

 

 

New Hek:

 

Pros:

-Improved reverb tail

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

-More shot variations

-Higher fidelity sound (we reworked it from the ground up)

-More impactful and powerful initial gunshot

 

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

That was what we loved about it, it fired from 4 barrels at once, it's SUPPOSED to be loud.

 

Sure the new sound is more hi-tech, but at what cost? the weapon sound weak now. We just want it to feel like the Hek once did, it absolutely does not anymore.

Edited November 12, 2015 by StickyBaseline

[Bouldershoulder]

Pros:

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

I'm a terrible msPainter, but here's what I think about this relation

[dadaddadada]

now it sounds like a freaking asthmatic dude coughing

Wh... No it doesn't. Whats the points of even saying it like that. Any "I still don't like it" would have conveyed the message equally well. I don't get the point of these "Meh new hek sonds like cheap air gun/mashed potatoes/wet farts/[insert here irrelevant object] pls revert" if not for just childishly making fun of somebody's work.

 

 

Where did you record this, if I may ask?

First time I heard the new Hek sound, I was on Eris. Haven't tried it recently, but it was really bad there, the sound was very muffled and less than half as loud as your recording.

Grineer galleon. The old sound is from a youtube video, YT screws with sounds effects in a number of ways and had to tweak both in volume to make them sound similar in loudness.

[Evan-0-matic]

As a long time Hek fan... I LOVE THE NEW SHOT SFX!!!

Good on you, DE_George for sticking to your guns and not reverting the sound. It's a fine choice, and excellent work by you and your crew!

Can't wait to see what you IMPROVE next.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Evan-0-matic

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

I love this new sound of hek , now improve vasto sound too , this revolver need much love in your sound xf 

[vasRayya]

Yeah it is, it's a freaking QUAD barrel shotgun, it fires with 4 barrels, not 1, it should be loud. 

That was what we loved about it, it fired from 4 barrels at once, it's SUPPOSED to be loud.

 

Sure the new sound is more hi-tech, but at what cost? the weapon sound weak now. We just want it to feel like the Hek once did, it absolutely does not anymore.

yeah and it is loud, but it sounds like a shotgun now and not a massive cannon

who even cares if you think it sounds weak, the thing performs great and sounds great too

moaning and complaining about how you don't like it isn't going to get the sound reverted, they've already said they aren't changing it

[sappinmahsentry]

yeah and it is loud, but it sounds like a shotgun now and not a massive cannon

who even cares if you think it sounds weak, the thing performs great and sounds great too

moaning and complaining about how you don't like it isn't going to get the sound reverted, they've already said they aren't changing it

Have you heard a shotgun in real life? Honestly have you? Because honestly the Hek currently sounds nothing like a real life shotgun, and definitely not like one that has four barrels.

[Bizzaro21]

Wh... No it doesn't. Whats the points of even saying it like that. Any "I still don't like it" would have conveyed the message equally well. I don't get the point of these "Meh new hek sonds like cheap air gun/mashed potatoes/wet farts/[insert here irrelevant object] pls revert" if not for just childishly making fun of somebody's work.

I already stated that it`s great and am not mocking it, but it gives me that feeling on hek due to its firepower, it sounds too low......

 

and for the 1000th time, it`s a great sound and gj to the team and all, but it doesnt fit hek....

 

it`s a great sound, sound team, but it doesn`t fit the Hek, and u wasted love on a gun that didn`t need it, look at attica, it sounds like firing spitballs not a crossbow, that would`ve deserved a rework more than hek, and countless other guns that sound like crap..... out of all this, u picked the best to change to worse :I

[Fomiru]

I really like the sound of the new hek though, please don't remove it.

[rapt0rman]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks everybody for your comments and suggestions.  We have thought a lot about the old and new sound of the Hek.  We decided to put a list of pros and cons together for each version to help with the decision process:

 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

-No improved reverb tail (changes with environment, the sound that happens after the initial gunshot)

-Was way too loud compared with all other current weapons

-No variations on each shot (was only one sample, which gets fatiguing)

 

 

New Hek:

 

Pros:

-Improved reverb tail

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

-More shot variations

-Higher fidelity sound (we reworked it from the ground up)

-More impactful and powerful initial gunshot

 

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

 

 

We think that in order to keep the game and new ideas and tech moving forward, that we will be keeping the current sound.  We really believe it is for the better and fits in more with all the current gun sounds in the game.

 

Many of you have asked for "gun sound packs" to be added to the game, where you could customize your weapon's sound.  I think that this is a possibility for the future but we don't have any current plans to support it.  Warframe has over 200 weapons (and growing!) so making alternate sounds for each weapon would require a ton of man-hours and lots of work.  We think that for now, our time is better spent working on new items that get added to the game, and occasionally revising old.

 

Once again I want to reiterate that we do sincerely appreciate all of your feedback (positive and negative) and that we always take every comment into consideration.

 

 DE_George.

But you could still keep moving forward by using all this feedback to work on the new Hek sound just that little bit more. and bring back some of the old along with all the fancy reverb. You guys can pull it off, we believe in you >.>

 

https://clyp.it/fujaj0bj really does perfectly show the difference between the two. And yeah the old hek is loud, at the volume I'm set at each time it plays it makes me wince, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion but if you need to find a middle ground for the volume that's ok too :P

 

 

Wait... c'mon seriously, "familiarity" and "lack of familiarity"? Give us a little bit more credit then that, it's not just a matter of familiarity, for many of us our opinions still haven't changed for the gorgon or the vipers either. The old Hek sounds like a shotgun with character, and the the new Hek sounds like... well, just a shotgun... you could say it's "lacking in character"

Edited November 12, 2015 by rapt0rman

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

I'm sad the hek sounds so weak and DE is not changing it despite all the negative feedback

[aerosoul1337]

Want I feel is much more simple...

 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

Good

 

New Hek:

 

Cons:

Bad

[Don_T_Shoot]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks everybody for your comments and suggestions.  We have thought a lot about the old and new sound of the Hek.  We decided to put a list of pros and cons together for each version to help with the decision process:

 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

-No improved reverb tail (changes with environment, the sound that happens after the initial gunshot)

-Was way too loud compared with all other current weapons

-No variations on each shot (was only one sample, which gets fatiguing)

 

 

New Hek:

 

Pros:

-Improved reverb tail

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

-More shot variations

-Higher fidelity sound (we reworked it from the ground up)

-More impactful and powerful initial gunshot

 

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

 

 

We think that in order to keep the game and new ideas and tech moving forward, that we will be keeping the current sound.  We really believe it is for the better and fits in more with all the current gun sounds in the game.

 

Many of you have asked for "gun sound packs" to be added to the game, where you could customize your weapon's sound.  I think that this is a possibility for the future but we don't have any current plans to support it.  Warframe has over 200 weapons (and growing!) so making alternate sounds for each weapon would require a ton of man-hours and lots of work.  We think that for now, our time is better spent working on new items that get added to the game, and occasionally revising old.

 

Once again I want to reiterate that we do sincerely appreciate all of your feedback (positive and negative) and that we always take every comment into consideration.

 

 DE_George.

A few things here.  Thank you for commenting, but the points about familiarity come off as condescending.  I know what both sound like and one being older than the other has zero to do with it.  I and others can objectively judge the merits of the sound on their own regardless of which one is more familiar.

 

But if we are going to go down that road of groundlessly accusing people of being biased.  Then I will say that perhaps the judgement of the sound department is clouded by their new "dynamic reverb" toy.  Much like George Lucas going all Jar Jar Binks on us because he discovered how to misuse CGI.

 

Ha,  new Hek Sound...the new Jar Jar Binks. hmm.  Could be. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Don_T_Shoot

[ACorpse]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks everybody for your comments and suggestions.  We have thought a lot about the old and new sound of the Hek.  We decided to put a list of pros and cons together for each version to help with the decision process:

 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

blahblahblah

 

Look, if you're not here to engage in a genuine discussion then just keep ignoring the thread. Nobody has said they want the old sound back because it was familiar. It simply sounds better.

 

Writing that off as "Oh you people just don't like change" is patronising and makes you look like an &#!.

[Prany]

But if we are going to go down that road of groundlessly accusing people of being biased.  Then I will say that perhaps the judgement of the sound department is clouded by their new "dynamic reverb" toy.  Much like George Lucas going all Jar Jar Binks on us because he discovered how to misuse CGI.

This is pretty good point. And reminds about that time when devs applied their brand new cloth physics to very much metallic prime access accessories. Devs do love their new shiny tech, but consumers generally care only about end result, regardless if they are disappointed or satisfied.

 

Talking about sound teams shiny tech, can someone post examples of Hek sound with reverb on and off? I've tested it and see no difference. So I'll make assumption that my (admittedly outdated and with no external sound devices) laptop simply can't process reverb properly.

[UseCorrosiveProjection]

I love the sound of the new Hek. it's amazing. Realistically speaking though.

 

If you change a weapon, shot count, rifling, shot size, calibre etc. It WILL sound different. Hek got changed a lot when they balanced shotguns to be a bit more inline with rifles (btw part of the problem with them was/is that point blank isn't in line with serration but we have prime pb now). No reason it shouldn't sound different

You mean they made it sound weaker...... for a stronger gun.

Hek used to sound like thunder, now it sounds like a loud fart

This is pretty good point. And reminds about that time when devs applied their brand new cloth physics to very much metallic prime access accessories. Devs do love their new shiny tech, but consumers generally care only about end result, regardless if they are disappointed or satisfied.

 

Talking about sound teams shiny tech, can someone post examples of Hek sound with reverb on and off? I've tested it and see no difference. So I'll make assumption that my (admittedly outdated and with no external sound devices) laptop simply can't process reverb properly.

Or maybe they could give us an "old sound" option

[hammerheathen]

You mean they made it sound weaker...... for a stronger gun.

Hek used to sound like thunder, now it sounds like a loud fart

Or maybe they could give us an "old sound" option

I could also just have completely different sound settings that the average person. Aside from the variables I have set to warframe personally ( my sound effects are loud, but everything else is quiet) I have high quality speakers and a good headset. I utilize surround sound with and underwater effect and a heavy metal focus. Anything that booms really booms and you can feel it in your bones. The change in quality of the sound simply made it better and it's easier to play around with using sound systems.

[Ve1indian]

Glad to see this is still being "discussed"

 

Regarding DE_George's latest reply... The new sound's "lack of familiarity" is not what most of us here have complained about. What seems to be the issue people are bringing up is that the current sound doesn't match the function or aesthetic of the shotgun, or at least less so than the previous sound. It's not a complaint made from the technical side of things, it's a complaint made because of the disconnect between the factors that give the gun its "feel" when using it in-game. For example, if you give a 9mm pistol the sound effect of a mortar firing from a tube, it just doesn't match the rest of the weapon's visuals and function. Regardless of how intricate the mortar firing from a wide tube sound is, most people will find it more satisfying to use a 9mm pistol with a more high-pitched, sharp sound akin to a small pointed projectile leaving a narrow barrel at high velocity.

 

In other words, most avid Hek users miss the old sound because it fits better with the guns design and function. Even though this opinion has no objective basis, it doesn't change the fact that the old sound is more often considered better. When a consumer judges a product, more often than not they don't care what material it's made out of (if it doesn't affect the function of the product in any way). What matters most is the function of the product, or the end result (in this case, the feeling the user gets whilst firing the weapon). The function of firing sounds is to provide satisfying feedback to the user, so they enjoy using the weapon more. By changing the sound to something that most people find disatisfying, regardless of how much more technically advanced it is, actively works against the purpose of the sound.

 

Some people enjoy the new sound, but it seems most people either don't care for the change, or don't like it at all/as much compared to the older sound. Why not just change it back? Alternatively, could we be granted, as individual players with differing opinions, an option to choose between the two sounds? Perhaps it can be a selection within the appearance tab labeled as "sounds", and players could freely switch between the gun's different firing sounds over the various updates this game has received. That way, everyone can be happy, and those who are proud for creating such an AUDIBLY ADVANCED FIRING SOUND WITH IMPROVED REVERB TAIL, HIGHER FIDELITY WORKED FROM THE GROUND UP, AND MORE SHOT SOUND VARIATION can still have their work appreciated by those who care for its complexity.

 

Sincerely, A shotgun fanboy

Edited November 15, 2015 by Vougue

[Bizzaro21]

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

-No improved reverb tail (changes with environment, the sound that happens after the initial gunshot)

-Was way too loud compared with all other current weapons

-No variations on each shot (was only one sample, which gets fatiguing)

 

 

New Hek:

 

Pros:

-Improved reverb tail

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

-More shot variations

-Higher fidelity sound (we reworked it from the ground up)

-More impactful and powerful initial gunshot

 

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

that`s a pretty biased list there....

reasons why it is:

 

1-familiarity doesn`t count at all as good or bad....

 

2-the old one`s loud volume was an up not a down for it..

 

3-neither varies with every shot, they sound the same on new one as well, just the interaction with environment (i.e Echo and reverb)

 

4-the new one is definitely not more impactful, anyway, what is impactful? having a lot of impact to it? the higher volume is more of an impact than the lower one, therefore older one is more impactful than the new one

 

5-the initial gunshot sounds good, BUT not due for Hek`s firepower, in most cases, higher firepower means higher sound, u increased its damage, and reduced its sound volume and pitch....

 

I think u should seriously consider bringing back the old one and modifying its interactions with environment... and move this one to some other gun that actually needs a rework

 

and be more careful when picking guns that need sound rework ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

thank you sound team for your work

 

~cheers

[ZiiiiViiii]

 

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks everybody for your comments and suggestions.  We have thought a lot about the old and new sound of the Hek.  We decided to put a list of pros and cons together for each version to help with the decision process:

 

Old Hek 

 

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

 

Cons:

-No improved reverb tail (changes with environment, the sound that happens after the initial gunshot)

-Was way too loud compared with all other current weapons

-No variations on each shot (was only one sample, which gets fatiguing)

 

 

New Hek:

 

Pros:

-Improved reverb tail

-Better volume level with relation to other weapons

-More shot variations

-Higher fidelity sound (we reworked it from the ground up)

-More impactful and powerful initial gunshot

 

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

 

 

We think that in order to keep the game and new ideas and tech moving forward, that we will be keeping the current sound.  We really believe it is for the better and fits in more with all the current gun sounds in the game.

 

Many of you have asked for "gun sound packs" to be added to the game, where you could customize your weapon's sound.  I think that this is a possibility for the future but we don't have any current plans to support it.  Warframe has over 200 weapons (and growing!) so making alternate sounds for each weapon would require a ton of man-hours and lots of work.  We think that for now, our time is better spent working on new items that get added to the game, and occasionally revising old.

 

Once again I want to reiterate that we do sincerely appreciate all of your feedback (positive and negative) and that we always take every comment into consideration.

 

 DE_George.

 

 

Yeah... That was the most Jay Wilson post from a developer I've seen since... Jay Wilson.  If you don't know who that is just know this, he has to be one of the most hated game developers of all time.  He tried telling people what they did and didn't like about a game too.  He literally said things like "No you're wrong, you like it because of this".  And then he made changes to the game BASED on those ludicrous assumptions.

 

Holy S#&$, DE_George.  Get real and learn from the idiots before you.  Telling players what they do and don't like has NEVER EVER been a good thing.  Doing that not only shows that YOU have no idea what players do and and don't like but also that you won't listen when they DO tell you.  That was how Jay Wilson eventually 'moved on' to another project.

 

Things like sound and appearance you don't just change them and then say "You like it better this way".  You take votes and find out what the community would like and then you make your decision, explain it based on those results, and then implement.  Isn't hek one of the oldest weapons in warframe?  ................................ smh.  This is a big no-no.  You fall in love with a weapon in a game like warframe where weapons are content.  You find your favorite and you sink 5-8 forma in it, buy skins for it, color it, and you use it because you bloody love the thing. Who knows, maybe you'll understand what everyone is telling you.  I just had to TRY and tell you how stupid this is because if it becomes a trend, I'm out.  I've seen many Jay Wilsons before you get fired and shipped off to work on low budget, dead end projects or just leave the company all together.  They aren't allowed to put their name on anything except the credits because of how it will be received by the community.  It is almost SOLELY because of the identical posts they vomited onto the community website.

 

I hear a lot of good things about you and I can read just as many.  But hurting the game, delivering messages incorrectly, saying things that aren't true, telling people what they want when it's CLEARLY just wrong, is a trend.  Don't let it happen to you.  This is a day and age where the community drives your product.  You telling them what they want so blatantly will never be received well, nor will it have any kind of positive affect.  I'm sure you will read this but I hope you won't ignore it.

 

What EXACTLY would it take for you guys to change the sound back?  Do you need a community poll? You should have done this to begin with and I'm actually 100% surprised that you didn't.  Who knows, maybe you'll be right.  Maybe the majority will say they DO like the sound better.  But I doubt it...

 

I'm going to save this post just in case it gets deleted. I know just what to do with it.

Edited November 26, 2015 by ZiiiiViiii

[Prany]

 

 

 

 

Yeah... That was the most Jay Wilson post from a developer I've seen since... Jay Wilson. 

I know George's response was fairly upnosed, but comparison with Jay Wilson is maybe going too far. It squarely falls in dev bashing.

[ZiiiiViiii]

Ok.  Considering all the positive things from DE_George I think your right.  Maybe that was a little harsh of me.  I guess my tolerance for that KIND of response from developers was just destroyed over the years and it wasn't fair of me to directly compare him to Jay Wilson.  However, harshness aside I stand by it.  Those kind of responses are completely unacceptable.  Especially in 2015.  But yeah, maybe invoking the name of Satan was a bit much.  My apologies.

 

Obviously in this particular circumstance it's not going to result in the masses uninstalling and never using microtransactions.  It's the principal and one very real, very negative thing that came out of this is that I personally will not purchase any more skins or specific attachments or augments and things in this game because I don't want to invest into something that can/will just be changed for seemingly no reason.  However it is also true that the players don't know what they want.  So for that reason I'm all for behind the scenes work on certain things... but changing something iconic to your game without the consent of it's players?  Oh you've got to be kidding me.  The hek was the first weapon that I personally loved everything about.  The look, the feel and specifically, ESPECIALLY the sound.

 

You can always add to but you cannot take away.  Take the NEW sound you love so much and paid someone to create and put it on a NEW shotgun or weapon(Hopefully one that actually fits the sound).  Everybody wins.

 

"We think that in order to keep the game and new ideas and tech moving forward, that we will be keeping the current sound. " Yeah... the heks sound was really hurting progress.... smh.  Yup, it's loud.  Guess what, so are real shotguns.  And for the record, it's not simply familiarity.  It's Iconic.  Do you know why retro style games have become so popular again?  I'll bet you can figure it out.

[EDIT] I'm speaking to George and whoever is reading. Sorry for any confusion about who I'm talking to specifically.

Edited November 26, 2015 by ZiiiiViiii

[SaurusRex]

Pros:

-Familiarity of the sound

Cons:

-Lack of familiarity 

 

This is just sad. 7 pages of discussion up to that point, all this (frequently detailed) feedback, and almost 2 months to try out the new sound, and yet it's all written off as "familiarity". I am very familiar with the sound by now, but it doesn't make it sound any less like a sack of gravel landing on a pile of crumpled paper bags.

 

Many of you have asked for "gun sound packs" to be added to the game, where you could customize your weapon's sound.  I think that this is a possibility for the future but we don't have any current plans to support it.  Warframe has over 200 weapons (and growing!) so making alternate sounds for each weapon would require a ton of man-hours and lots of work

 

And many of those 200 weapons do not have alternate graphical skins either, yet we still have the option to change the ones that have them. Why can't we have the same option for the alternate sounds that do exist?

[UseCorrosiveProjection]

DE, just give us an option to switch to old sound......... This way, some of us who are happy with the new sound can turn it off and others who dont like it can turn it on

[Ve1indian]

Hopefully this is changed back in update 18, or they at least have an option to switch to "legacy" sounds by then. I can't even enjoy using my Hek anymore with it sounding so forceless and muffled. Just like the reload sound a while back, this was horrendously neutered for no valid reason. seemingly for the sound team to display their pride in a complex creation, or make technological "advancements" that only hinder the end product to most people who care.