Fixing Fleeting Expertise

[BlackCoMerc]

We all know efficiency is broken. Reducing duration automatically makes any frame that does not need Duration better than an even remotely comparable from that does. And now, reducing Duration also harms Channeled/Toggled abilities as well. And without an alternative for reaching max efficiency, Channeling frames are really underwhelming at the moment.

 

Lets fix it. Permanently. Easily. With a couple of solutions that are so small they could be done in a hotfix.

 

Alternative One - The "Streamline:"

 

Max Streamline at 50 - 55% Efficiency. Then, set the hard cap there. Remove Fleeting Expertise from the game and reward those who have it with several R5 cores, a little plat, a rare BP...something. Preferably of their choosing, from a small pool of rewards. Maybe a Forma BP (kidding).

 

 

Alternative Two - Fleeting Expertise change:

 

Change Fleeting Expertise itself. Like so:

 

+10/20/30/40/50/60% Efficiency

-05/10/15/20/25/30% Maximum Energy

 

OR:

 

+10/20/30/40/50/60% Efficiency

+0.25/0.30/0.35/0.40/0.45/0.50 Seconds casting time

 

There. Problem solved. Fleeting Expertise still has a drawback that requires another mod to compensate for it (same as now). It no longer makes one class of frame strictly subpar compared to another. And it retains a Corrupted flavor with a drawback, fitting it into Lore in the same space it resides in now.

 

[Shifted]

I'm supportive of nerfing ability spam, but I think the issue lies in how we obtain energy.

 

Energy restores are cancer.

No matter what you do, there's unlimited energy for you as long as you have resources to craft those pads.

 

If you nerf mods, it only makes the game more annoying, since you have to spam more energy restores to keep up with the playstyle that you subconciously built.

 

I wish the usage of abilities was more tactical, requiring you to think before you use them.

 

"Is it really worth using that room clearing 'press 4' on 3 enemies when your weapon is fully loaded? Will I have enough energy to use it again when things go south?"

 

Maybe one day...

Edited October 3, 2015 by Shifted

[BlackCoMerc]

At the same time, shifted, you dont want to risk turning Warframe into a 3rd person Destiny clone, where 95% of game play relies on guns and abilities come to feel like shoehorned afterthoughts. Do that, and you will lose a goodly portion of your audience.

 

Warframe is not first and foremost a skill based shooter. And if does not continue to differentiate itself from the pack of skill based, weapon and aim focused shooters, it will lose an audience. Warframe is first and foremost an ARPG and really needs to stay that way to maintain a fan base.

[Shifted]

At the same time, shifted, you dont want to risk turning Warframe into a 3rd person Destiny clone, where 95% of game play relies on guns 

Well, at this point it's 95% ability spam.

 

Make it 60/40 at least...

[EdBazokatone]

I'm supportive of nerfing ability spam, but I think the issue lies in how we obtain energy.

 

While I'm not in favour of ability spamming just because you have unlimited energy I'm also not in favour of the game turning to just another shooter. I know I would stop playing if that happens.

 

There must be balance between guns and abilities. No aspect should be more important than the other.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

I don't see what there is to fix here, FE should have a drawback as it's corrupted. However since FE does still affect effect the efficiency of toggle abilties, the drawback can already be negated by the use of Primed Continuity.

 

So from a 1 from the top Streamline and FE will yield 75% eff -50 dur, however a maxed Prime Continuity will bring this back to total duration to 105%. This will bring the drain on Equinox's maim to 0.88 drain per sec, but adding in for e.g Constitution will not give any more efficiency as it is hard capped by 75%.

 

Unless these numbers are off on the abilities tap, efficency isn't broken. In fact the change has given us more flexability in modding, just take a look at Mesa now....

[Shifted]

Here's another idea I just thought up:

 

- Remove Energy Siphon Aura

- Add cooldown to Energy Pads

- Replace Efficiency stat with increased energy regen.

 

Thoughts?

[bubbabenali]

Here's another idea I just thought up:

 

- Remove Energy Siphon Aura

- Add cooldown to Energy Pads

- Replace Efficiency stat with increased energy regen.

 

Thoughts?

How about uninstall Warframe and play <<generic shooter with perc- and killstreak system>>

[akira_him]

We may need another corrupted efficiency mod sacrificing range like strength have BR and TF

[Shifted]

How about uninstall Warframe and play <<generic shooter with perc- and killstreak system>>

How about get out if you don't have anything to contribute?

[-N7-Leonhart]

We all know efficiency is broken. Reducing duration automatically makes any frame that does not need Duration better than an even remotely comparable from that does. And now, reducing Duration also harms Channeled/Toggled abilities as well. And without an alternative for reaching max efficiency, Channeling frames are really underwhelming at the moment.

 

Duration affects efficiency ONLY for toggled abilities. Therefore not all frames and abilities.

 

I don't see the problem, hell it's even a great advantage. I can scrap Fleeting Expertise and have both great duration and efficiency on frames with toggled abilities.

Edited October 3, 2015 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Man_In_Suitcase]

We may need another corrupted efficiency mod sacrificing range like strength have BR and TF

 

I would like to see this or mayhaps a different Narrow Minded. So +duration -power?

[bubbabenali]

We may need another corrupted efficiency mod sacrificing range like strength have BR and TF

Problem with +eff -range is that skills like Hysteria are possibly getting a huge buff with this.

And considering the active Nerf-force in the "Warframes & Abilities" sub that won't do any good for some nice abilities in the game.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

The toggle ability with efficiency is far from complete though for now, it feels kind of experimental
it seems putting streamline + continuity would achieve the best result for toggled skills than fleeting expertise 

 

It might take some experiment for the optimal efficiency + duration combination for toggled skill





 

[XBlackLotusX]

wait... nerf.... again? energy??? ok LF EV TRIN

[LordChronos]

I love nerfs!!!

[NessTV]

Just remove power efficiency stat and replace it with casting speed.

[Kihana]

Why such drastic changes? Leave it what it is or just make it more like the other corrupted mods by reducing the duration reduction. +60/-30 at max would be fine.

 

Some builds work just fine with it as it is. Wanting it to work better with an indicviduals favorite frame/build doesn't make it broke.

[Monolake]

You still get max 4x efficiency (175% by WF unconventional definition)  with maxed Streamline+Fleeting  on channeling abilities.

There is no need to buff efficiency mods.

[Deadoon]

Fleeting is fine as it is right now. It is still required to minimize your energy costs with toggle abilities with minimal point costs. It just needs 3-4 mods for those with no downsides afterwards.

 

Here's another idea I just thought up:

 

- Remove Energy Siphon Aura

- Add cooldown to Energy Pads

- Replace Efficiency stat with increased energy regen.

 

Thoughts?

 

So remove teamplay from energy management, give energy regen items special treatment, and just make a pure eff(now regen) build reverse its weakeness to draining enemies?

 

How about no. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by Deadoon

[Tostov]

Well, at this point it's 95% ability spam.

 

Make it 60/40 at least...

Git good at shooting then, or use a frame that has weapon support synergy. Like Rhino or Banshee.

Seriously though, there's like, 5 frames that have reliable huge nuking power(Sayrn, Frost, Mag, Excal, Ash). Outside of that, guns are excellent for killing stuff. If you want to play 95% shooting, go do archwing. Or don't join pubs. If there's 95% power usage, then you're probably in a farming session.

[taiiat]

while Efficiency is very Overpowered(and i agree that spamming Abilities constantly is not beneficial for Warframe in the long run) - the problems you talk about don't really exist.

 

 

Warframes which want Duration, Fleeting Expertise at 40% and Streamline at 30% gets within a couple Energy of the cap, while maintaining as much Duration as possible.

 

and Channeled Abilities drain completely inconsequential Energy as long as you have decent Efficiency and decent Duration.

people come up with hyperbole of saying they need 2 Efficiency Mods and 3 Duration Mods - but that's just stupid lies. they don't.

 

- - - - - 

 

if Players could create any Mod they wanted within existing stats, and the game autobalanced them - then we could have all kinds of flavors of Mods.

if someone wanted to have 4 Efficiency Mods, all with their own separate negatives, by all means to them. or whatever they wanted.

the catch to that is that all Mods would be Corrupted Mods except for a basic set of low bonus ones (like the Vanilla Mods). so if you wanted to crank one stat a lot, you'd have to sacrifice all of your other stats - because you wouldn't be able to Equip a +something -something twice, you'd have to change atleast one side of it. want to have 4 Range Mods? you need to take negatives to 4 different things.

 

this would basically absolve the problem on it's own - your min/max specialization would be useless, you'd need to pick and choose a balance, having the maximum of any stat would make all of your Abilities worthless.

so choose what Negatives you're comfortable with, and know when enough is enough.

 

 

oh, and Pizzas are dumb. they're a craftable crutch to ignore the game.

why bother having a game if you want to give Players the option (or even force them to) ignore the game, bypassing all challenges with consumables.

Players shouldn't be able to craft bottomless get out of jail free cards.

being able to bring some Emergency Ammo with you, or an Emergency Stim Pack, or an Emergency space magic Energy supply - that's great.

but it isn't Emergency anymore when you can retile the floor with them.

people will fight for pizzas, trying to make some false argument that they're good for the game, when they're really just saying they're great because they let them AFKFarm or not have to play the game. having Emergency Consumables is acceptable, but only if they're limited enough to be Emergency.

[Cryone]

Guys, all we need is Baro Ki'Teer bring us Primed Streamline, and not that crap of all time.... (but still for players who can't manage PE)

Edited October 4, 2015 by Cryone

[Shifted]

Git good at shooting then, or use a frame that has weapon support synergy. Like Rhino or Banshee.

It's not a 'git gud at shooting issue'.

 

It's a 'Why should I bother aiming at every single enemy if I can press 4 to win with no consequence'

 

It boils down the 'gameplay' to a brainless W+4.

 

Such gameplay, much wow.

 

But whatever, there's no point talking about this.

You start a serious discussion about it and trolls jump in with posts that don't bring anything constructive.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Shifted

[MarkDaPanda]

What was the energy drain of an eff build when duration didn't affect it ?