Can We Talk About Warframe "genders" Idea?

[EmptyDevil]

No need to be a denial

 

You just did what that statement said.

[-Ozymandias-]

Don't we all?

nope

[UrielColtan]

The person I was replying to did, I was illustrating they were mistaken.

Previously Nef Anyo and now "The Sargent" tells us "That <warframe> would look great hanging on my wall." and names your current Warframe explicitly.

What? I haven't said anything about bodies, What do you think you are arguing against here?

We are told by the Lotus: "Tenno, that was the last of the imprints. Forge this Warframe in honor of these memories." I think you're stretching credulity to to suggest anyone other that the Tenno/Operator that the Lotus is talking to is going to use the Warframe they just made.

But also, thats not my point. My point was that the person I replied to said:

And I countered by pointing out that the previous pilots for Mirage and Limbo are explicitly dead, meaning that, at the very least, some other Tenno _must_ now be piloting those Warframe, hence it cannot be a 1:1 mapping.

1.The Nef anyo quote is from Assasination, not a story quest. Though I was speaking more in context to Lotus and Ordis quotes in the specific warframe farming quests you mentioned.

2. It looked to me like you were contesting this.

"No energy. Flesh n blood. they bleed out like peolpe and they die like people. "

3.I observed all the dialogue prior to my previous reply. I`m not stretching anything when Lotus states nowhere that you should forge it so you can actually use it. Lotus said to just forge it in memory of that Mirage. Which can be seen as akin to preserving beings in synthesis like with Simaris and his requests. Or more closely related, like the warframes propped up in the Tenno lab.

That could be another reason Lotus want to preserve her, so she can inevitably be preserved in Tenno research for other Tenno.

Tenno make a job of defending and rescuing Tenno too, so its not hard to picture the sabing frames for the neqly awoken. That is, if the Tenno we are using at the moment aren`t meant to be percieved as a naked Tenno storywise when not specifically stated to be using one and just going on these kind of quests to get the warframe that they would have affinity with.

Edited October 14, 2015 by UrielColtan

[SilentMobius]

 

1.The Nef anyo quote is from Assasination, not a story quest. Though I was speaking more in context to Lotus and Ordis quotes in the specific warframe farming quests you mentioned.

 

I don't see how that makes a difference, The Sergeant refers to both our worn Warframe and our (Tenno) name (The Account Name) It makes it very clear that regardless of what Warframe is being worn the pilot is the same.

 

2. It looked to me like you were contesting this.
"No energy. Flesh n blood. they bleed out like peolpe and they die like people. "

 

You were mistaken. I have no problem with flesh-and-blood Tenno, nor did I mention them in the reply.

 

3.I observed all the dialogue prior to my previous reply. I`m not stretchibg anything when Lotus states nowhere that you should forge it so you can actually use it. Lotus said to just forge it in memory of that Mirage. Which can be seen as akin to preserving beings in synthesis like with Simaris and his requests. Or more closely related, like the warframes propped up in the Tenno lab.

 

Then who's memory is it being done in? If we are recreating a person called Mirage how can we be creating that person in the memory of the same person, it makes no sense, we have a expression for a beings coming back to life "Resurrection" and this is not it, No we are building a Warframe, we are piloting a Warframe the previous pilot is explicitly dead, any other reading makes a mockery of the tone and style of the story. Authors simply don't write like that if they were implying that the pilot of the Mirage Warframe was not permanently dead.

 

That could be another reason Lotus want to preserve her, so she can inevitably be preserved in Tenno research for other Tenno.
Tenno make a job of defending and rescuing Tenno too, so its not hard to picture the sabing frames for the neqly awoken. That is, if the Tenno we are using at the moment ian`t meant to be percieved as a naked Tenno storywise when not actually and just getting the warframe that they would have affinity with.

 

The Lotus isn't preserving anyone, we forge a _Warframe_ that's all, nothing else is mentioned, the being inside is gone, explicitly, that story makes no sense otherwise, the tone is or mourning, sadness and sacrifice, none of which makes any sense if the being in the story has been recreated. Lotus even corrects herself "Tenno, the last piece of her... of Mirage... has been recovered." The Lotus was being sentimental about the being and slipped, then corrected herself to refer to the Warframe.

 

Is English your first language? If not, that may be the source of your misunderstandings

[UrielColtan]

snip

Waxing about 7 days later is an irrelevant attempt to trivialize counterpoints.

Facts have no shelf life.

Now to start, even fungus can consume, this obviously doesn`t mean it is done orally.

More to the point, virus infects, a host body may consume orally.

Excuse me if "fungi" offends you but I was just keeping in theme with the Nano spore nomenclature and Dr Tengus also referring to infestation as spores. Matters not what you call it though, point is the stuff is littered around ships in buds in non consumable form, able to do nothing more than pulsate or swirl around in flutters of spores when not attached to a body. All the active infested we see are bodies/machines infected by the infestation.

Active infested are never stated as autonomous from infected bodies and machines.

And you want me to remember that Rhino`s codex is before any warframe? There is no actual time stamp here, we just know its after the Zariman incident, like most things. Though I already thought the codex was before the Warframes, and that it was a Rhino without his suit, you are the one saying its a warframe that was "posessed"

As for the "anything can burn" copout. That is nothing but a pure aversion to common sense and comprehension skills.

Talk about really wanting to fill what is there with what you prefer it to be.

Its in the Ember codex. We are expected to just buy your claim that the codex which doesn`t even feature a warframe to make an excuse, is not referencing the very powers of Ember when we have two other codexes. referencing the specific powers of their respected warframes if not the frames themselves? We are expected to fall for this scenario that ends up having not one distinct reference to Ember if we accept what you say? We`re honestly expected to accept this copout dismissal?

Well then, you know what, any nano machine technology can explain skin turning the color of mercury, and hell, maybe the thing in the Rhino codex was actually valkyr instead, since clearly the specific warframe codex is irrelevant, yeah, sure.

Edited October 14, 2015 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Man, I am always late to the party on these threads. It is a fair question OP. The answers have been promised to come soon, but your right that DE has set it up so there is room for possible social norm alternatives. Not that is the case, but the room is there. However, I have debated it ad nauseam and just want to wait and see now.

[Urlan]

Waxing about 7 days later is an irrelevant attempt to trivialize counterpoints.

Facts have no shelf life.

Now to start, even fungus can consume, this obviously doesn`t mean it is done orally.

More to the point, virus infects, a host body may consume orally.

Excuse me if "fungi" offends you but I was just keeping in theme with the Nano spore nomenclature and Dr Tengus also referring to infestation as spores. Matters not what you call it though, point is the stuff is littered around ships in buds in non consumable form, able to do nothing more than pulsate or swirl around in flutters of spores when not attached to a body. All the active infested we see are bodies/machines infected by the infestation.

Active infested are never stated as autonomous from infected bodies and machines.

And you want me to remember that Rhino`s codex is before any warframe? There is no actual time stamp here, we just know its after the Zariman incident, like most things. Though I already thought the codex was before the Warframes, and that it was a Rhino without his suit, you are the one saying its a warframe that was "posessed"

As for the "anything can burn" copout. That is nothing but a pure aversion to common sense and comprehension skills.

Talk about really wanting to fill what is there with what you prefer it to be.

Its in the Ember codex. We are expected to just buy your claim that the codex which doesn`t even feature a warframe to make an excuse, is not referencing the very powers of Ember when we have two other codexes. referencing the specific powers of their respected warframes if not the frames themselves? We are expected to fall for this scenario that ends up having not one distinct reference to Ember if we accept what you say? We`re honestly expected to accept this copout dismissal?

Well then, you know what, any nano machine technology can explain skin turning the color of mercury, and hell, maybe the thing in the Rhino codex was actually valkyr instead, since clearly the specific warframe codex is irrelevant, yeah, sure.

 

Not a Rhino without its suit, Rhino is a suit, based off this infested individual displaying abilities that the Rhino warframe is shown to possess. The suits are made of infested material and the infested abilities come from biomutations of the original host organisms. In this case, the scientists experimented on a strain of technocyte mutation that had beastial strength, charged, stomped, and yes had Rhino's later signature Iron Skin biometal layering. Eventually we come to the Children of Zariman, the basis for the later Tenno; whose void radiation presence seemed to calm the Proto-Rhino creature.

 

In the Ember Prime's entry, we are shown a woman who found and broke procedure when finding the Zariman and the Children aborn before the events of the Rhino Prime entry. This woman tried to comfort one of the children and received a radiation burn from the kid's void radiation that was being given off in a state of stress. This also shows that the situation of the Zariman was not on the level and was against even normal Orokin procedure. This was an unapproved experiment.

 

The Technocyte might not be fungus but it doesn't really matter too much really; it is a fusion of biological and mechanical elements that spread through nanospores and work to modify or adapt biological and technological matter to form adaptive forms that can be managed by blueprints or templates to form needed tools or materials for other projects. Left in a natural state, the nanospores eventually form plastids or a technocyte tumor that in turn eventually forms mutagenic samples and masses of the same plastid tumors that have joined together in a cancerous but still functionable state. Our suits and much of Grineer and Tenno technology seem to function off of using the technocyte in various ways to further our military might in a cost effective manner. 

 

While the Grineer seem to use it sparingly for the most part focusing on detonite, but plastids show up in their weapon casings and infantry armor; the Tenno use it for their suits, weapons, tools, and even decorations and building manufacture. It seems to show that both groups came after the move of Orokin tech from high technology to a bioengineering focus. The Corpus also seem to use the results of technocyte biomechanical functions but much less, problably the result of both the focus on restoring ancient Orokin tech and leadership bans that Alad V mentioned during the strange shipments mini event. Functionally speaking, there are both fungi and bacteria that can form bioplastics and it is feasible that bioengineers could have made something to both automate and improve such functionality.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Urlan

[UrielColtan]

I don't see how that makes a difference, The Sergeant refers to both our worn Warframe and our (Tenno) name (The Account Name) It makes it very clear that regardless of what Warframe is being worn the pilot is the same.

 

The difference is, I already know about Nef Anyo and don't like being told something I already know, and the fact that we are specifically talking about those mentioned warframe farming quests, where none of the above is mentioned. Nef Anyo and other bosses mentioning your warframe are non commited reference, its gameplay procedural. They don't bring up you wearing multiple specific warframes in a single run, and otherwise don't prove that you wear multiple specific warframe anymore than the idea that they like to say pretty much the exact same dialogue each time we encounter them or that we are killing them multiple times.

 

Then who's memory is it being done in? If we are recreating a person called Mirage how can we be creating that person in the memory of the same person, it makes no sense, we have a expression for a beings coming back to life "Resurrection" and this is not it, No we are building a Warframe, we are piloting a Warframe the previous pilot is explicitly dead, any other reading makes a mockery of the tone and style of the story. Authors simply don't write like that if they were implying that the pilot of the Mirage Warframe was not permanently dead.

 

Not seeing what your point is here. It was never contested by me that the Tenno from that Mirage was not dead and that the warframe was not rebuilt in memory of them. Pretty sure I established that it very well was the case at that. There can be a distinction between honoring and personally using though. We rebuilt Chroma too, though that was explicity to gain shared knowledge on Simaris' request. Which is just another example of the concept behind the rebuilding of a warframe not necessarily being related to wanting to personally pilot it, storywise anyway.

 

 

The Lotus isn't preserving anyone, we forge a _Warframe_ that's all, nothing else is mentioned, the being inside is gone, explicitly, that story makes no sense otherwise, the tone is or mourning, sadness and sacrifice, none of which makes any sense if the being in the story has been recreated. Lotus even corrects herself "Tenno, the last piece of her... of Mirage... has been recovered." The Lotus was being sentimental about the being and slipped, then corrected herself to refer to the Warframe.

 

Is English your first language? If not, that may be the source of your misunderstandings

 

Didn't say Lotus is preserving anything(Though we don't know what Lotus is truly doing, possibilities are plenty.) I said you are, as shown in the foundry and Tenno labs, and she wants you to do so. Stuff pertaining to you as Tenno, is valuable to you and Lotus, who sees your kind as her family.

Don't know why you keep repeating that the pilot of Mirage was dead either when I never said she wasn't. Mourning does not contrast what I said at all, especially no more than running around in the suit of a deceased.

English, the far reaching lingua franca, is my first language, if you are getting this idea that its not through certain typos I've made then that's merely due to originally typing that response on a phone with annoying autocorrect and mediocre letter and paste toggling, nothing more. I otherwise must question if English is your first language, considering how I never said the Mirage pilot was not dead, or that this was not treated as something to be mourned, even when accounting for typos.

Edited October 14, 2015 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

Not a Rhino without its suit, Rhino is a suit, based off this infested individual displaying abilities that the Rhino warframe is shown to possess. The suits are made of infested material and the infested abilities come from biomutations of the original host organisms. In this case, the scientists experimented on a strain of technocyte mutation that had beastial strength, charged, stomped, and yes had Rhino's later signature Iron Skin biometal layering. Eventually we come to the Children of Zariman, the basis for the later Tenno; whose void radiation presence seemed to calm the Proto-Rhino creature.

By Rhino without its suit I am clearly referring to a Tenno with said specific powers, of which has no other name.

And the rest of what you said is more fanon speculation, yet to be confirmed. At best, we know that the suits also use some components like nano spores or plastids, like multiple weapons we use, but those aren't running around attacking people on their own, the infested nature is benign here. We don't know that the Rhino in the codex was even infested or acting out infested instincts, as opposed to rampaging due to brutal experiments, as is suggested by the scientist in the Codex entry.

If our radiation had an automatic sedating effect on infested, then they wouldn't attack us and the two scientists would be burned by the radiation from a room full of Zariman victims, going by your comments below.

 

In the Ember Prime's entry, we are shown a woman who found and broke procedure when finding the Zariman and the Children aborn before the events of the Rhino Prime entry. This woman tried to comfort one of the children and received a radiation burn from the kid's void radiation that was being given off in a state of stress. This also shows that the situation of the Zariman was not on the level and was against even normal Orokin procedure. This was an unapproved experiment.

More subtle fanon injections. Its not stated to be a "radiation" burn. Kaleen is merely stated to be burned, and it is in the Ember codex for a reason. I read all the codex, and all the current synthesis already btw, thanks.

 

The Technocyte might not be fungus but it doesn't really matter too much really; it is a fusion of biological and mechanical elements that spread through nanospores and work to modify or adapt biological and technological matter to form adaptive forms that can be managed by blueprints or templates to form needed tools or materials for other projects. Left in a natural state, the nanospores eventually form plastids or a technocyte tumor that in turn eventually forms mutagenic samples and masses of the same plastid tumors that have joined together in a cancerous but still functionable state. Our suits and much of Grineer and Tenno technology seem to function off of using the technocyte in various ways to further our military might in a cost effective manner.

While the Grineer seem to use it sparingly for the most part focusing on detonite, but plastids show up in their weapon casings and infantry armor; the Tenno use it for their suits, weapons, tools, and even decorations and building manufacture. It seems to show that both groups came after the move of Orokin tech from high technology to a bioengineering focus. The Corpus also seem to use the results of technocyte biomechanical functions but much less, problably the result of both the focus on restoring ancient Orokin tech and leadership bans that Alad V mentioned during the strange shipments mini event. Functionally speaking, there are both fungi and bacteria that can form bioplastics and it is feasible that bioengineers could have made something to both automate and improve such functionality.

Some of the cycle processes are not established. Nano spores are already technocyte tumors, infested infects other hosts bodies to expand. Nano spores, plastids and mutagen masses were already known by me to be used in Warframes and other military devices. Thanks anyway.

Edited October 14, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Urlan]

The problem is Tenno are from the Zariman, the Proto-Rhino is not a Tenno, as Tenno do not show warframe powers, we give off Void energy. Any thinking of a mutated Tenno being the basis for the warframe is missing the point of the codex entry - showing a hint of where both the Tenno and warframes came from. The warframes from technocyte experimentation and the Tenno from experimenting with the effects of void exposure. One might assume that what you consider 'fanon' is more logical than guesses like associating something that existed before a Tenno with a modified Tenno.

 

Technocyte's pretty well established as while Warframe doesn't share the same canon as DarkSector, technocyte itself is pretty established, for example look at the in market and item descriptions for them. Nanaspore into Plastids into Mutagen Sample into Mutagen Mass. In fact the clan research also follows this if you have had to pay to fund that research. Its good that all this is known to you, otherwise one might feel that you were avoiding the lore work being put into the game.

 

We have different interpretations UrielColton, and that is fine, just as with energy theories and such we have been promised more development and answers debates such as this. Until then, however, your belief has no more basis than the 'fanon' you look down upon.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Urlan

[SilverBones]

I am still very much in the 'non physical tenno / physical Warframe' group.

Tenno Transhumanism, baby!

[-Ozymandias-]

I am still very much in the 'non physical tenno / physical Warframe' group.

Tenno Transhumanism, baby!

Yes!

[Jakcal]

In the Ember Prime's entry, we are shown a woman who found and broke procedure when finding the Zariman and the Children aborn before the events of the Rhino Prime entry. This woman tried to comfort one of the children and received a radiation burn from the kid's void radiation that was being given off in a state of stress. This also shows that the situation of the Zariman was not on the level and was against even normal Orokin procedure. This was an unapproved experiment.

It's far more reasonable to assume the kid has fire abilities. Sure it's possible that the Void burned her but it's not as likely.

The other half of this is just made up.

[Urlan]

It is not said that Fire is involved in Ember prime's codex and neither the Security officer or Orokin questioner meantion anything about the children other than their cantamination from unshielded void exposure. Both entering the ship and having the ship sent out are considered against protocal according to both officer and questioner. Nothing in what I wrote is made up and is available from reading codex, lore, and item descriptions in game. Our interpretations may differ but the information is all there to be read. Our suits have warframe powers not the Tenno who operate them, as Vor's statement that started the surge of Energy theorists, we are simply the source of the energy that fuels the suits' powers.

[VegaFlash]

Check their youtube channel they just uploaded their NY Comic Con Panel and somebody asked a similar question