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Can We Talk About Warframe "genders" Idea?


-Ozymandias-
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Everything will be revealed Soon™.

-Steve, 2013

 

Honestly I will say I DO have my doubts about how U18's going to be the bombshell drop. It's introducing the Sentients, that's already a lot on their plate - and since the Sentients most likely wont want ANYTHING to do with directly interacting with the Tenno (Void allergies and all) it's a bit head-scratching exactly how their introduction will lead to revelations about the physical nature of the Tenno, who are basically walking BATTERIES of Void energy.

Edited by Morec0
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So, you believe that DE has no idea what they're doing with Warframe?  That they have no plan for the future and didn't take the time to plan out where they were going with this game, that it was just a spur of the moment creation?

 

Yup. Check the post below, I agree with that guy. If they did have the lore figured out they've release more info, at least in codex. But so far it's only been small, very very small, increments.

 

And yes.

As i said before, this was most likely something like a 3rd person shooter with some cool "ninja" characters to chose from (and i say "ninja" because Ash is the only one who actually looks like one or acts like one) and it's success took DE by surprise and they had to figure it out from there.

The Tenno idea was maybe a way to simplify things instead of making "lore" or/and story for each one of them.

 

It is a bad thing when the story of a game is the last thing released, specially after 2 years.

If they actually had any idea they would just put some lore into the game as it is one of the most requested things since release (if not the most requested one)

These "teases" and "hints" as someone said above just show they dont actually have any idea.

 

Exactly! I believe DE had the concept of a free to play shooter than would make them money figured out long before they even thought of the lore. And honestly, I think the "Tenno" thing is just plain lazy. I don't understand why the refuse to comment on simple things like "Is each Warframe a unique character?" or "Are there multiple Excaliburs running around or just one that changes his armor?" to even "Are Dark Sector and Warframe canonically linked or just inspired by?"

 

The lore is what pulled me into this game to begin with, I wanted to figure out the Tenno's history, what each Warframe's story was, what their pasts were like. But instead, we incrementally get ambigous and confusing codex updates that don't make any sense what so ever. I thought Warframe was going to be about a Tenno, released from cryostasis, suffering from amnesia, trying to figure out who they were and what their purpose was in this universe.

 

But nope.

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Yup. Check the post below, I agree with that guy. If they did have the lore figured out they've release more info, at least in codex. But so far it's only been small, very very small, increments.

 

In all fairness, codex lore doesn't help turn a profit, and writing can take a while - ESPECIALLY when you have a lot of other things on your plate. I know from first-hand experience.

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I'm just takings shots in the dark here, though. What proof are you waiting to drop?

 

"Soon the worm will be in your spine and I will control this Warframe of yours... I will purge your doting mother and bring you home."

Acknowledge that your using the warframe.

 

"We are working on tracing them. Separate this Tenno from the flock and it should be easy to kill. We shattered its Warframe and expect such an abrupt Cryo purge will have damaged its memories​"

Using Tenno and Warframe with different meanings.

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"Soon the worm will be in your spine and I will control this Warframe of yours... I will purge your doting mother and bring you home."

Acknowledge that your using the warframe.

 

"We are working on tracing them. Separate this Tenno from the flock and it should be easy to kill. We shattered its Warframe and expect such an abrupt Cryo purge will have damaged its memories​"

Using Tenno and Warframe with different meanings.

 

Read "Tenno" as "soldier".

 

Read "Warframe" as "body".

 

And that's assuming the Grineer have some knowledge about the full nature of Warframes and Tenno. Even though it was Vor that stated this, where in the timeline did this fall? If I'm not mistake, this came BEFORE the Arid Fear update in which he begins to shift his thoughts about the Tenno after studying of their corpses.

 

Not to mention that bit came from the original Tutorial, which was later replaced by the one we have now. Don't want to be "that guy" to play that card, but it's complete and total removal throws in canonicity into question - ESPECIALLY when that line could have been so easily used in the Vor's Prize tutorial.

Edited by Morec0
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Read "Tenno" as "soldier".

 

Read "Warframe" as "body".

 

And that's assuming the Grineer have some knowledge about the full nature of Warframes and Tenno. Even though it was Vor that stated this, where in the timeline did this fall? If I'm not mistake, this came BEFORE the Arid Fear update in which he begins to shift his thoughts about the Tenno after studying of their corpses.

 

Not to mention that bit came from the original Tutorial, which was later replaced by the one we have now. Don't want to be "that guy" to play that card, but it's complete and total removal throws in canonicity into question - ESPECIALLY when that line could have been so easily used in the Vor's Prize tutorial.

Read "Tenno " as "Human"

Read "Warframe" as "Exo skeleton"

 

That can also be used as

Read "Tenno" as "Dinosaur"

Read "Warframe" as "Brain"

 

"We are working on tracing them. Separate this Dinosaur from the flock and it should be easy to kill. We shattered its Brain and expect ... [it] will have damaged its memories​"​

 

Energy/Soul theory still seems a bit silly. Is there any valid proof for it that the Tenno are energy, other than looking at a quote that can be argued to be a metaphor?

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I have always just thought that each warframe had their own tenno inside.

I mean that would explain why they can have specific idle animations with each tenno having their own kind of personality

This is the common misconception which brings to the "genders" idea shown in fan art.

But it has been stated several times that we play as ONE Tenno without explain what Tenno are at all.

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Tenno are the player, void mutated humans sent into the void on unshielded ships. What we look like inside the suits is up to some debate, but the devs have been rather clear that we are intended to be one Tenno who uses each individual suit. Whether we are energy, a humanoid with a human shaped suit on top, or brain in a jar as DE Steve joked during one of the past devstreams is unknown definitively. Update 18 is supposed to give us insight into the Tenno and answers for some of these questions - and of course answers are something threads and discussions about the subject seek.

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In all fairness, codex lore doesn't help turn a profit, and writing can take a while - ESPECIALLY when you have a lot of other things on your plate. I know from first-hand experience.

That's kinda my point, lore doesn't make them money so they don't care. They just give us just barely enough to count as new lore. Money comes first, playing experience later.

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Read "Tenno " as "Human"

Read "Warframe" as "Exo skeleton"

 

That can also be used as

Read "Tenno" as "Dinosaur"

Read "Warframe" as "Brain"

 

"We are working on tracing them. Separate this Dinosaur from the flock and it should be easy to kill. We shattered its Brain and expect ... [it] will have damaged its memories​"​

 

Energy/Soul theory still seems a bit silly. Is there any valid proof for it that the Tenno are energy, other than looking at a quote that can be argued to be a metaphor?

 

Fair enough. That line definitely gave me pause.

 

Again, though: consider what Vor became after his trip into the Void. It's not the quote from the Captain that I'm pulling us being energy from, it's what Vor turned into and what he now exists as.

 

If not for that, I'd agree with you on a dime, but as long as he's there and as long as he's immortal and doing what he's doing I'm not sure Energy/Soul theory can be ruled out. It just strikes me as a touch... interesting, let's say, that we have Vor turning into the thing he does after exposure to the energies of the Void through his void key, while the Tenno were also said to be "twisted" and changed in some way by the Void.

 

It also makes some rather interesting thematic points, when it comes to the two characters that came closest to harnessing the strengths of the Tenno:

 

Vor wanted to harvest the innate Void energy of the Tenno itself, and in tern became energy himself (as they are?).

 

Alad wanted to command the power of a Warframe through his Zanuka program, and in tern was consumed by the Infestation that the Warframes share a genesis with.

 

 

That's kinda my point, lore doesn't make them money so they don't care. They just give us just barely enough to count as new lore. Money comes first, playing experience later.

 

I don't think it's that they don't CARE, it's just that they CAN'T really devote oodles of time to it like, say, a AAA-game would be able to - one that can afford to have an entire story department fleshing everything out and writing it all up. Money does come first, but NOT because "screw the story, no one cares" because "we have to make money off of this to keep it going".

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What was the power that Vor was interested in? Was is the Warframe's abilities? No, it was the Tenno's Void energy,

 

Look, this was before Vor's prize or Void Vor in general. Its pretty clear that prior to later discovered things about the Tenno, Vor and his scientist thought the Warframes were where their powers came from and found they could not actually use them. Following this revelation, Vor hypothesized, likely that since Warframes were held in cryosleep in the Void, that their powers are actually connected to the Void.

 

 

I was saying "the metal womb is the cryopod", however I was not saying that the cryopod revealed nothing to explain their powers. Their studying of the Tenno corpse - the Warframe - revealed nothing to explain their powers in the way Vor was looking for them - that is, though their connection to the Void. The abilities were there, but Vor's not interested in the Warframe's abilities: he wants to study the Void energy because he thinks it's the magical key to saving his people from their dying sterility.

 

Such copout. He is clearly calling the suits metal wombs, just like Maroo who calls them tin suits.

Vor specifically mentions corpses. Cryo sleeping Tenno in their warframe is not a corpse, and a cryopod would likely be called a glass womb more than anything. Then there is the matter of things like these.

 

"Alad V's newest prototype is a monstrosity forged from the bodies of our fallen Tenno, we cannot allow Zanuka to go into full production. Destroy Alad V and his horrid 'pet'." - Lotus

 

"Good job, Zanuka. This Tenno's bones will make you a fine sibling."  Alad

 

 

 

I was saying "the metal womb is the cryopod", however I was not saying that the cryopod revealed nothing to explain their powers. Their studying of the Tenno corpse - the Warframe - revealed nothing to explain their powers in the way Vor was looking for them - that is, though their connection to the Void. The abilities were there, but Vor's not interested in the Warframe's abilities: he wants to study the Void energy because he thinks it's the magical key to saving his people from their dying sterility.

 

As for "it's just a metaphor" if NOT for the fact that Vor later BECAME energy, again, I'd agree with you. But his reappearance in the Void causes one to reconsider.

 Or perhaps the Ascaris burrowing into our spine - or perhaps the Warframe's spine?

 

 

The spine and mind are mentioned, and an ascaris would not need to burrow enough to "soon" meet with the Tenno's spine if Vor was merely talking about the Warframe, which has an exposed exoskeleton spine.

You're trying way too hard to deny the hinting toward the Tenno having bodies. Even considering Void Vor, he still has an actual body, he is merely held together at the torso with void energy, since he was chopped in half and can become energy upon being killed.  He uses the energy but, he still has a body when he revives. Why this is a concept that keeps getting ignored by you energy being theory people I don't know, but it seems like willful negligence. Tenno can use void energy, though this doesn't mean they don't have actual bodies.

Edited by UrielColtan
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But we were twisted by the Void, altered, changed by it. If we came out of that experience with the power we got from it and ZERO physical repercussions whatsoever, I'd feel it would just be really silly.

 

 
 

 

You know how general a statement that is? "Twisted" can easily refer to their radical void powers, not any significant physical deformity or lack of physical appearance such as the case with the energy being theory true believers. Even Xmen are considered twisted despite not all of them being too deformed if physically distinguishable from regular humans.

It doesn't have to mean we are some boring blob or boring energy ball. Thats what I consider silly. The Ember codex doesn't even suggest that the Zariman children were indistinguishable from what that officer would consider children.

Edited by UrielColtan
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Even considering Void Vor, he still has an actual body, he is merely held together at the torso with void energy, since he was chopped in half and can become energy upon being killed.  He uses the energy but, he still has a body when he revives. Why this is a concept that keeps getting ignored by you energy being theory people I don't know, but it seems like willful negligence. Tenno can use void energy, though this doesn't mean they don't have actual bodies.

 

When he dies, if all goes well and nothign bugs, that "actual body" of his dissipates into energy flakes, and even then when it does bug that body may sometimes still get a weird texture that is supposed to be the start of his dissipating even when it fails to do so. And even after his "death" he continues to talk and speak to the players, now with a different echo effect, suggesting he's now in a different state than when he first attacked.

 

And NEITHER bits explain a key detail: you can shoot him in the face all day long, but he takes ZERO damage from it. You HAVE to shoot his energy core, energy that's binding him together. Sounds familiar, right? Sounds like the Oro Teshin says the Tenno posses. This ties the two closely together, in my mind.

 

And when I talk about the "energy/soul theory" I NEVER talk about it like "the Void turned us completely into that", rather I see it as the Void split out Soul and our Body, much with what we see with Void Vor, an energy core, a Soul, inhabiting a body. When we came back from the Void we still had a body we were inhabiting, our original body, the bodies Kaleen interacted with and was burned by Void energy by trying to do so, but during Orokin experimentation (the Rhino Prime Codex notably) it was found by them that our souls could move out of our original bodies and into other suitable hosts - in that case, Technocyte-infested monsters, ones that later would be dubbed the Warframes - and in doing so we took with us the Void energies we had.

 

So they built the frames around us like that, used those as our new bodies... And, as our original human bodies were of no use to the, they most likely discarded them. I like the tragedy of that idea, the dehumanization it brings to the Tenno in contrast to the power it brings.

 

 

As for your Zanuka bits, take a listen to ANOTHER way Alad describes Zanuka:

 

https://youtu.be/xS3WMXvkCSY?t=2m15s

 

"Hybridized with Warframe components."

 

Not Tenno bones, Warframe components. But, as I see it, they're one in the same. The Warframe is the flesh of the Tenno, the bones, the muscle - they're one in the same.

 

And could I be wrong? Very much, yes, but I still see the possibility for it there.

 

As I've said many times over here: as long as we find out, I'll be happy with whatever, and I see the possibility for both, I just don't think the energy theory can be fully discarded at this juncture because of certain elements and my interpretations and readings.

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You know how general a statement that is? "Twisted" can easily refer to their radical void powers, not any significant physical deformity or lack of physical appearance such as the case with the energy being theory true believers. Even Xmen are considered twisted despite not all of them being too deformed if physically distinguishable from regular humans.

It doesn't have to mean we are some boring blob or boring energy ball. Thats what I consider silly. The Ember codex doesn't even suggest that the Zariman children were indistinguishable from what that officer would consider children.

 

I knew this would come up.

 

"Twisted" implies a negative aspect, a negative outlook. Something gone wrong with them. If they were JUST given powers without a negative aspect to it then "enhanced", "evolved", "augmented", "empowered" would be better choices.

 

The Orokin were about the purity of the human form, its perfection, even their own deformed-by-their-hands creations - the Lorists - were hideous and monstrous in their eyes. What better to consider twisted by such people than some malformation or otherwise deformity or loss of humanity from them - be it within a body or loss/separation for the body.

 

But when I talk about "physical repercussions" for the Tenno I DON'T JUST MEAN "they're ugly", I mean there is something about the Tenno physically now that has some strong negative aspects. Could it be deformation?  Could it be lack of a body entirely?  Could it just be that we exude SO much Void energy naturally now that we hurt anyone that gets too close, causing the Warframes to be necessary to allow our interaction with normal people?

 

ANY of those would be acceptable, in my eyes. If you give powers, you have to give drawbacks to maintain the balance within the character. Otherwise you end up with overpowered Mary Sues.

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When he dies, if all goes well and nothign bugs, that "actual body" of his dissipates into energy flakes, and even then when it does bug that body may sometimes still get a weird texture that is supposed to be the start of his dissipating even when it fails to do so. And even after his "death" he continues to talk and speak to the players, now with a different echo effect, suggesting he's now in a different state than when he first attacked.

 

And NEITHER bits explain a key detail: you can shoot him in the face all day long, but he takes ZERO damage from it. You HAVE to shoot his energy core, energy that's binding him together. Sounds familiar, right? Sounds like the Oro Teshin says the Tenno posses. This ties the two closely together, in my mind.

 

And when I talk about the "energy/soul theory" I NEVER talk about it like "the Void turned us completely into that", rather I see it as the Void split out Soul and our Body, much with what we see with Void Vor, an energy core, a Soul, inhabiting a body. When we came back from the Void we still had a body we were inhabiting, our original body, the bodies Kaleen interacted with and was burned by Void energy by trying to do so, but during Orokin experimentation (the Rhino Prime Codex notably) it was found by them that our souls could move out of our original bodies and into other suitable hosts - in that case, Technocyte-infested monsters, ones that later would be dubbed the Warframes - and in doing so we took with us the Void energies we had.

 

So they built the frames around us like that, used those as our new bodies... And, as our original human bodies were of no use to the, they most likely discarded them. I like the tragedy of that idea, the dehumanization it brings to the Tenno in contrast to the power it brings.

 

 

As for your Zanuka bits, take a listen to ANOTHER way Alad describes Zanuka:

 

https://youtu.be/xS3WMXvkCSY?t=2m15s

 

"Hybridized with Warframe components."

 

Not Tenno bones, Warframe components. But, as I see it, they're one in the same. The Warframe is the flesh of the Tenno, the bones, the muscle - they're one in the same.

 

And could I be wrong? Very much, yes, but I still see the possibility for it there.

 

As I've said many times over here: as long as we find out, I'll be happy with whatever, and I see the possibility for both, I just don't think the energy theory can be fully discarded at this juncture because of certain elements and my interpretations and readings.

 

 

You can't read, I already said he turns into energy when he dies. He still has an actual body whenever he revives. There is not one dern thing about this Tenno ghost possesion crap thats supported in your point here. Vor is not possessing other people's bodies, he is using his own. Your point about shooting the orb is irrelevant, its merely a gameplay mechanic to make it more difficult to damage him, and basically akin to fighting Sargus Ruk. Or practically all the currently revamped grineer bosses who got sweet spot damage points or even temporary invincibility, compared to their prior incarnations.

 

I already read that fanon you linked to long ago, its a bunch of assumptions that are contradicted by what I pointed out already.  Kaleen was burned with specific power, which is why the stupid mention is in the Ember Codex and not some other random codex. We see Prime Rhino has no mouth and what is the point of a hollow frame eating people? None. And the Doctor talks about the Rhino like its an actual person, not a virus. The excal codex clearly says they built frames around the Tenno, not built the frames independent of the Tenno. I don't see Rhino frame having a shape without a host to begin with.

Edited by UrielColtan
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I knew this would come up.

 

"Twisted" implies a negative aspect, a negative outlook. Something gone wrong with them. If they were JUST given powers without a negative aspect to it then "enhanced", "evolved", "augmented", "empowered" would be better choices.

 

The Orokin were about the purity of the human form, its perfection, even their own deformed-by-their-hands creations - the Lorists - were hideous and monstrous in their eyes. What better to consider twisted by such people than some malformation or otherwise deformity or loss of humanity from them - be it within a body or loss/separation for the body.

 

But when I talk about "physical repercussions" for the Tenno I DON'T JUST MEAN "they're ugly", I mean there is something about the Tenno physically now that has some strong negative aspects. Could it be deformation?  Could it be lack of a body entirely?  Could it just be that we exude SO much Void energy naturally now that we hurt anyone that gets too close, causing the Warframes to be necessary to allow our interaction with normal people?

 

ANY of those would be acceptable, in my eyes. If you give powers, you have to give drawbacks to maintain the balance within the character. Otherwise you end up with overpowered Mary Sues.

You're not saying anything, twisted is pretty general, conduit of their affliction, strongly suggest that they are referring to their powers, they make no mention of physical appearance of the Tenno in Excals codex, and Kaleen is rather blase about their appearance in the Ember one, let alone ever suggesting that they are just energy ghosts. Give up.

 The drawback is that Tenno bleed and breath. You just want the Tenno to be boring nebulous energy, but they are cryo frozen for a reason. The warframes can be built and thus don't need cryo freezing.

Edited by UrielColtan
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We'll see and I'll be happy with whatever. I disagree entirely with your views on the Ember Prime and Rhino Codex bits, though. The fact we can switch between the Warframes and use specifically the powers associated with said Warframe (as well as the "not a Tenno" Mesa from Patient Zero still using its Warframe powers against us) attests, to me, that the powers are generated by the Warframes themselves, not from the Tenno.

 

But you really haven't figured out that the Warframes are Technocyte yet? Have you?

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Might as well put my theory points here.

1. When the first warframes were built, the Primes, they were blank frames that were built around certain Tenno that were exposed to the void and received amazing powers.

2. The blank frames then shift and shape themselves to the Tenno in question becoming conduits for their powers, focusing, magnifying and absorbing their powers.

3. When we rebuild these frames from the blueprints, we are simply getting a taste of their powers. Even with the Prime Warframes, its still only a taste. Mirage Quest and Limbo Quest talk about the Original warframe. the Tenno who had the powers and the frame that was built around them and later became them.

4. The addition of Void technology explains the size differences. Much like the TARDIS of Doctor Who, it's bigger on the inside. Examples of Void technology: Liset, Mantis, Orbiter, where we keep our foundry, arsenal and incubator. Void technology allows you to change space around and fit anything you want inside.

5. Current modern day Tenno most likely haven't been exposed to the void. Once the frames were being mass produced, there was no reason to send them into the void. Modern day Tenno also most likely inhabit the relays. The humanoid figures who aren't wearing warframes in the relay.

Here's my collection of thoughts. I think that we the players are the Tenno and the warframes we build ar just armor. void technology allows us to wear any frame we want regardless of size discrepancy. The powers we use with each frame are tied to the frame itself based on the original Tenno who acquired the powers from the void and their frame.

 

Edit: 5th point is wrong. Thank you EmptyDevil

Edited by TheFatDrake
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At this point i think it would have been better to say each warframe is an individual being and put some lore into each one of them as they were released.

 

The whole Tenno idea made things complicated, and now they dont even know how to procceed.

Thas my opinion though.

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5. Current modern day Tenno most likely haven't been exposed to the void. Once the frames were being mass produced, there was no reason to send them into the void. Modern day Tenno also most likely inhabit the relays. The humanoid figures who aren't wearing warframes in the relay.

 

 

Everything you said could be valid but this part most definitely isn't. That would mean anyone could use a Warframe. Those people in the relay are normal humans and we are people with Void energy.

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At this point i think it would have been better to say each warframe is an individual being and put some lore into each one of them as they were released.

 

The whole Tenno idea made things complicated, and now they dont even know how to procceed.

Thas my opinion though.

 

Really? It pretty much ruins _all_ story progression, because we, as players, have no avatar.

 

Stalker annoyed with you... ooops no sorry that was the Tenno-welded-into-Rhino-Prime that took down Phorid not the current Tenno-welded-into-Frost that you're using.

 

Want to buy a Syndicate weapon? Oh I'm sorry that was a bunch of other Tenno-welded-into-Warframes that helped out those syndicates.

 

There is literally no way to make any story in this game with multiple-Tenno-per-player. it would be like LoL, just a stable of "champions" with one fixed story per character that is nothing to do with the player.

 

It would suck!

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