UrielColtan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Don't say anything, a roulette wheel mission select is even worse and is what they were thinking about back in july. After so much criticism from that hopefully they won't be stupid enough to go back to that idea. Edited October 15, 2015 by UrielColtan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorfirebox Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 They "learned" from telling us about it in Devstream 52. We didn't like the garbage they presented us with and are keeping the changes to themselves now. Kind of like how they encrypted the drop tables so they couldn't be datamined. What DE learned is that some members of the community can't listen to an ongoing, still-throwing-ideas-around discussion of ideas for upcoming changes without throwing a frickin' tantrum. Which means that the rest of us lose a little bit of access to the development process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurryCurry Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) What DE learned is that some members of the community can't listen to an ongoing, still-throwing-ideas-around discussion of ideas for upcoming changes without throwing a frickin' tantrum. Which means that the rest of us lose a little bit of access to the development process. Amen. It's one of the few things that I'm most passionate about; pointing the finger to the rest of you who kept whining about the chucking-ideas-on-a-board process and whining to the point that DE thinks it'd be better to be a little less transparent. You want to know more about Starchart 3.0? Then close your damn mouths. On the note of the change in navigation - I liked Starchart 2.0. This is coming from a person who dealt with Starchart 0.5, basically, where Saturn connected to Mercury and it was a gigantic cluster of "what?" I was okay with both that and Starchart 1.0, though. Whatever DE comes up with, I'm sure I'll be okay with it. I find Chart 3.0 discussion on DE's part has always been a balancing act. So, ultimately, chalk me up to one of the people who just don't care. I play for the frames, not the farms. If I get something, I get something, and I have a lot of fun, damn it. Edited October 15, 2015 by SurryCurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Honestly, it sounds like it will be worse and more of a grind. Have fun waiting a month to even get a chance to grind for a single Orokin Cell because the node that has it is not on rotation or buying one of those over-priced BPs to make them that also cost a ridiculous amount of resources to make one, while the item you are trying to build requires like 15 of them. All they needed to do is make the Star Chart smaller. We don't need a bunch of repeat nodes. The new parkour just made this game a whole new experience in some areas No, it didn't. Bullet Jumping/Aim Gliding/Air Rolling just replaced coptering. The only difference is now you have to hammer more buttons to do what you use to be able to do with a simple combination. Wall running isn't even worth using anymore, so I guess that is new. Then close your **** mouths. That's literally the worst suggestion ever. What DE learned is that some members of the community can't listen to an ongoing, still-throwing-ideas-around discussion of ideas for upcoming changes without throwing a frickin' tantrum. Good, that's the only thing that saved P2.0. I am happy enough with what we got, but did you see that mess that they were originally going to release as P2.0? Those "tantrums" are the only reason we have Bullet Jumping and Aim Gliding. Those "tantrums" saved Christmas Warframe. Edited October 15, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Ken Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I personally hope that starchart 3.0 makes the earlier planets (earth for example) with higher starting lvl/difficulties so that more advanced players with their max formad gear have some kind of challenge outside the void. Most exciting would be for me a eris infested extermination with starting lvl of 90 with nightmare mods, for a REAL challenge. One other idea that I have is that we get a quest line system where you complete a mission and get the option to continue your mission and get transfered to the next mission (example ext->reacue->spy->sabotage) with increased difficulty the farther you progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorfirebox Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Honestly, it sounds like it will be worse and more of a grind. Have fun waiting a month to even get a chance to grind for a single Orokin Cell because the node that has it is not on rotation or buying one of those over-priced BPs to make them that also cost a ridiculous amount of resources to make one, while the item you are trying to build requires like 15 of them. Really, man? Good, that's the only thing that saved P2.0. I am happy enough with what we got, but did you see that mess that they were originally going to release as P2.0? Those "tantrums" are the only reason we have Bullet Jumping and Aim Gliding. Those "tantrums" saved Christmas Warframe. Except no, because all of the tantrums were about bunnyhopping, and that's still in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Really, man? Except no, because all of the tantrums were about bunnyhopping, and that's still in the game. Yes, man. The "tantrums" were over the bunny hoppying being the complete and total replacement to Parkour and Coptering, and P2.slow slowing down the entire pace of the game. Bunny hopping is still in, but we got Bullet Jumping added to bring the speed back up. Bunny hopping still looks stupid and poorly animated, but with bullet jumping, we don't even have to use it, so it is a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judgebanks Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Starchart 3.0 probably won't do anything for the lack of good boss fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrielColtan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) What DE learned is that some members of the community can't listen to an ongoing, still-throwing-ideas-around discussion of ideas for upcoming changes without throwing a frickin' tantrum. Which means that the rest of us lose a little bit of access to the development process. Actually they learned not to keep peddling a bad idea when they expressed in basic terms, what they wanted to do, thanks to audience criticism, as should be done if they want to keep getting support. And its not even just us, specfic staff expressed disdain with the original idea as well. People aren't stupid, and they have experience with other companies peddling the same bad ideas. In any case, it incentivizes not steering things in that bad direction before it even gets the chance to come to that, whether they settled on the idea or not. This game didn't get the 10th most played Steam game or 16.5 million registered users by making mission select into a roulette wheel. it was not needed, and we let the Devs know this. This game is built around audience feedback, they ask for the feedback, and we basically beta tested their game for free and on incentivized customer premium, (long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, people were paid for this. Weird I know.) I don't completely mind offering this and further supporting this game with my money, but you need to take seriously the criticism on ideas that would greatly effect the gameplay, if you want to keep this relationship. infantilizing the audience as you are is pure ignorance and a symptom of decades of business side indoctrination through aggressive marketing, presenting companies as completely autonomous deities, and the customers, as parasite peasants who should refrain from critique and should just show blind support. Edited October 15, 2015 by UrielColtan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lankander Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 1014 hours in and still havent got a single friend, you dont know what it means to be a lone tenno operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrielColtan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 How many friends do people have on Chinese MMO roulette wheels I wonder. The methods to populate areas do not have to be done in such a drastic way as DE was originally suggesting. The 1.0 star chart was quite populated without that nonsense. Its clear what they need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damuranashi Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 To be honest, yes I am. And I am not worried about the mission selection being randomized, because people always do the same nodes (You know what I am talking about). The fact that missions just happen is more inmersive, because right now it feels like: Corpus Spy mission: Corpus dude 1: Let's protect this data and keep it here forever and ever, never using it, until a Tenno comes and steal it. Corpus dude 2: PROVA! Grineer Exterminate mission: Grineer dude 1: Let's wait here and wander around the ship doing nothing until we get killed. Grineer dude 2: GET CLEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorgal_Sina Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It will be great if it adds more immersion, lore, and mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It will be great if it adds more immersion, lore, and mystery. I have a feeling that it will be more like: Want to play a T3S mission? Too bad, check back tomorrow. Want to play a T3S mission? Too bad, check back tomorrow. Want to play a T3S mission? Too bad, check back tomorrow. -- miss a day of playing -- Want to play a T3S mission? Too bad, that was yesterday. Check back in 3 months when it is back in the rotation. We don't need random daily nodes. We need less nodes in general. Shrink everything down into the first couple of planets. Get rid of the moons. Git rid of the redundant nodes. One planet doesn't need 2 or 3 of the same mission type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorfirebox Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Yes, man.So you're comfortable posting hyperbole so extreme that it's probably better classified as an outright lie? Ok.The "tantrums" were over the bunny hoppying being the complete and total replacement to Parkour and Coptering, and P2.slow slowing down the entire pace of the game. Bunny hopping is still in, but we got Bullet Jumping added to bring the speed back up. Bunny hopping still looks stupid and poorly animated, but with bullet jumping, we don't even have to use it, so it is a non-issue.I don't recall that the complaining really got started until the new bullet jump stuff was unveiled as a replacement. In fact, I think I recall Rebecca using some coptering during her exhibition of the original Parkour 2.0. Actually they learned not to keep peddling a bad idea when they expressed in basic terms, what they wanted to do, thanks to audience criticism, as should be done if they want to keep getting support. And its not even just us, specfic staff expressed disdain with the original idea as well. People aren't stupid, and they have experience with other companies peddling the same bad ideas. In any case, it incentivizes not steering things in that bad direction before it even gets the chance to come to that, whether they settled on the idea or not. This game didn't get the 10th most played Steam game or 16.5 million registered users by making mission select into a roulette wheel. it was not needed, and we let the Devs know this. This game is built around audience feedback, they ask for the feedback, and we basically beta tested their game for free and on incentivized customer premium, (long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, people were paid for this. Weird I know.) I don't completely mind offering this and further supporting this game with my money, but you need to take seriously the criticism on ideas that would greatly effect the gameplay, if you want to keep this relationship. infantilizing the audience as you are is pure ignorance and a symptom of decades of business side indoctrination through aggressive marketing, presenting companies as completely autonomous deities, and the customers, as parasite peasants who should refrain from critique and should just show blind support. This is basically completely false. DE hasn't changed the base concept, because the base concept wasn't the roulette wheel some players have interpreted it as.Expressing concern is one thing. The response to Start Chart 3.0--eg the "months to get a single o cell" fantasy posted above--are insane. Edited October 15, 2015 by motorfirebox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So you're comfortable posting hyperbole so extreme that it's probably better classified as an outright lie? Ok. I don't recall that the complaining ready got started until the new bullet jump stuff was unveiled as a replacement. In fact, I think I recall Rebecca using some coptering during her exhibition of the original Parkour 2.0. She tried to copter and she moved like 1 foot during the devstream that got people worked up. Bullet jumping didn't come until after the S-Storm. It's not hyperbole bordering on lying. It's an educated prediction based on everything DE has said and their recent actions plus other evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dioxety Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) YES, Can't wait to get void gear without being on the worst tileset in the game. Edited October 15, 2015 by iLogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilLemay Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Honestly I'm really interested in it, especially if the star chart is the sector based galaxy map that they teased a bit on one of the devstreams. Especially if the map is interactive and you can see ships flying around, or trade routes between planets, hubs, random debris floating in space, space fights. The infested attacking places, that stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurryCurry Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 She tried to copter and she moved like 1 foot during the devstream that got people worked up. Bullet jumping didn't come until after the S-Storm. It's not hyperbole bordering on lying. It's an educated prediction based on everything DE has said and their recent actions plus other evidence. I was there, you were there, you just chose to believe, like many others, that coptering was the only way to 'move' at the time. Complaining changed absolutely nothing that wasn't going to get changed anyway. DE is quite frank when it comes to saying "this was due to player feedback" - I don't believe they said that too often when it came to Parkour 2.0. Also, everybody seems to love forgetting about the disclaimer Rebecca put up during that first preview, saying that she wasn't exactly skilled at using the new Parkour system at the time. And I'm sure some of you had some issues picking it up too upon release. (I didn't, FYI to the curious. I adapt movement systems like crazy.) In terms of Starmap 3.0, the only reason that it's ever changing is because of internal disagreements. Fact of the matter is - we're no longer getting enough information about it, partly because it's in constant flux as a concept. I'd also think it's because of some of the more vocal members that are throwing constant tantrums, either here or on Reddit, I've even seen a few in the wiki. Also on Twitter and in the Devstream chats, let's not forget those. That's entirely my opinion, of course. I don't care if "close your damn mouths" is a horrible "suggestion", but the whining and backlash across every single possible platform is proof enough that the community, as a whole, hasn't learned their lesson about ganging up on works-in-progress, and now there's even more whining over a privilege they've been denied for the sake of the devs' sanity. Or did we also forget that the devs are human? Such is the curse of having a humongous fanbase. That said, this thread actually isn't so bad about being civil. Especially since you, Desecrated, were the person who commented that my idea was simply the worst suggestion ever. I have to thank you, because saying nothing more than that comment was probably the most civil thing you could have done. (No shade intended.) ...Even if I disagree entirely with some of your other sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I was there, you were there, you just chose to believe, like many others, that coptering was the only way to 'move' at the time. Complaining changed absolutely nothing that wasn't going to get changed anyway. DE is quite frank when it comes to saying "this was due to player feedback" - I don't believe they said that too often when it came to Parkour 2.0. Also, everybody seems to love forgetting about the disclaimer Rebecca put up during that first preview, saying that she wasn't exactly skilled at using the new Parkour system at the time. And I'm sure some of you had some issues picking it up too upon release. (I didn't, FYI to the curious. I adapt movement systems like crazy.) In terms of Starmap 3.0, the only reason that it's ever changing is because of internal disagreements. Fact of the matter is - we're no longer getting enough information about it, partly because it's in constant flux as a concept. I'd also think it's because of some of the more vocal members that are throwing constant tantrums, either here or on Reddit, I've even seen a few in the wiki. Also on Twitter and in the Devstream chats, let's not forget those. That's entirely my opinion, of course. I don't care if "close your damn mouths" is a horrible "suggestion", but the whining and backlash across every single possible platform is proof enough that the community, as a whole, hasn't learned their lesson about ganging up on works-in-progress, and now there's even more whining over a privilege they've been denied for the sake of the devs' sanity. Or did we also forget that the devs are human? Such is the curse of having a humongous fanbase. That said, this thread actually isn't so bad about being civil. Especially since you, Desecrated, were the person who commented that my idea was simply the worst suggestion ever. I have to thank you, because saying nothing more than that comment was probably the most civil thing you could have done. (No shade intended.) ...Even if I disagree entirely with some of your other sentiments. Being human is not a valid excuse. I can't half-arse my work then when my customers complain say "meh, I'm only human" unless I never want another customer. "Complaining" has changed plenty. It got us bullet jumping. It got the LS change in Survival Mode reverted. It got the change to the Baro items on console reverted. It got the change to the Sentinel Sniper changed to something reasonable. Et cetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejuizb Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 After meeting far too many disappointment over the years of playing this game, well, I'm gonna air on the side of caution. Yes, the update has the potential of success, but like the reworked Star Chart with the idiotic node display we currently have, there is a chance of failure and disappointment. I love this game a LOT, so I am obviously hoping for the former. I believe that the year of quality was fairly squandered with content releases; this year we got the least amount of major updates, and yes, they did include fairly important "reworks", but they didn't do nearly as much to improve the fundamental aspects of the game. I'd go as far as to say that a lot of gameplay aspects and mechanics actually went backwards. But that's my personal experience with the game. All I want from the new star chart is this: A reason to play any mission or node I want. Meaningful rewards scaled on the difficulty of said node. Reduction to layered grinding. Provide players with a long term goal to work towards instead of c*ckblocking them with unwanted resources and blueprints. Abolish Void fatigue. Make Warframe more social. I'm definitely not hyped, but I do have my fingers crossed. This update has the possibility of reviving the spark in me to play this game again, or just kill my interest in it completely. ` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurryCurry Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Being human is not a valid excuse. I can't half-arse my work then when my customers complain say "meh, I'm only human" unless I never want another customer. "Complaining" has changed plenty. It got us bullet jumping. It got the LS change in Survival Mode reverted. It got the change to the Baro items on console reverted. It got the change to the Sentinel Sniper changed to something reasonable. Et cetera. I don't know where you saw that I'm supplying "the devs are only human" as a "valid excuse" for half-arsed work. I'm not even sure where you got the notion I was even talking about half-arsed work at all. Don't take my words out of context, because that's one way to drive me up the wall in an instant. I was saying that they're not telling us jack-S#&$ anymore because they're humans who have to go through stress and anxiety over the decisions they make. Who the F*** can blame them for not telling us as much as we need to know to openly speculate about the changes they're making anymore? Especially when the community is trying to ram themselves down their throats for said decisions - on top of no longer being told every single detail that's on the drawing board. That's only an invitation for further stress and lowered morale. That's an invitation for half-assed work. And, guess what? They tried showing their full set of cards to us - and got punished by the general community. So now they're not doing it anymore. Case closed; you can blame the nastier people for not having the necessary control to realize that DE's devs are probably the most accessible developers on the market and are ineffably human; humans that take the community's opinions very, very seriously and feel like crap when the decisions made are not in the best interest of the majority of players. If you had to do your job, every single day, where you're either working in fear or working for the adoration of a gigantic community such as this, how do you think you would do? Because I know plenty of people who just wouldn't deal with that kind of stress - and there's no reason not to think that's the case with Digital Extremes. Which is my entire point, by the way: they're not going to risk presenting vital, unfinished conceptual work to us anymore - and they shouldn't be expected to. As well, another thing you took out of line, the "complaining" was not said generally - it was in regards to Parkour 2.0, since you seem to believe complaints made any difference at all - when it didn't. We didn't get Bullet Jump because the people complained, we got it because it was a necessary design change. I know - because I debated about it when the previews came out, and I know that the complaints had nothing to do with it. To act entitled about it, prancing about and saying that it was all because of the community, makes about as much sense as stuffing a kid's sock with coal at Christmas, telling them they've been bad, and then handing them treats on the side. If you don't understand that analogy, I've made my damn point. It makes no sense, it's fallacious reasoning; you're saying that, since the community complained, and the change happened, it all happened because the community complained. Which is called a "false cause" fallacy, if you're curious. I'm not saying complaints haven't changed things - constructive criticism is, in fact, king. But only when it's constructive and unanimous. In the case of the 'Change to Life Support' reversion, that was constructive and unanimous, it was also quick. Same for the Vulklok, because even DE was like "Yeah, this was dumb on our parts. Both ways." I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you mention the "Baro items on console," so I can't really comment or assume. But regardless, constructive criticism is everything - what most people tend not to do is be constructive. Many of the people on this thread are somewhat constructive, even with lack of proper information - which, as I have frequently said, can be blamed on the very not-so-constructive people. Etc, I'm recovering from a fever, so I'm a lot more ...uh, heated. I hope I'm making sense and not preaching to the choir or anything of the sort. Edited October 15, 2015 by SurryCurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FingersDeep Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I'm a solo player so I got through the star chart alone for the frames and got all the weapons and frames I could to hit MR 20. I didn't do my first raid til a week ago. Been a Tenno since April and the journey was lonely. I would like to see where and how they throw the primed items into the star chart though. Edited October 15, 2015 by 3FingersDeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH_PRIME Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Looking forward to itBUT really nervous about what's going to happen to my HUNDREDS of Void Keys,and on how easy its going to be to farm Ducats in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 FWIW almost anything would be better than the current solar chart personally i am hyped for the new rework as well as the upcoming [later] core base dmg mods rework and FINALLY giving weapons scaling stats as they rank up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now