Archwing Defense... Really... Really Bad...

[MetaTrooper]

Sorry about the text walls but it's just how i ended up doing it :/

 

Okay DE, i really can't think of anything to say for this other than remove it... no I'm not someone who dislikes Archwing, i happen to really enjoy the game mode short of exterminate where enemies seem to have the life goal of fusing with you via ramming... constantly, but Archwing Defense is the most boring game mode in the entire game.

 

Myself and a friend went on the Neptune defense, first time thought we'd try it out, we arrived at the defense target, okay, not looking great, fairly exposed though a lot of unnecessary clutter for enemies to get stuck behind, which they did, we chose to split up to defend each shuttle, i got shuttle B which you can argue may end up with less of the initial enemies but still, neither of us got much to do, we were sat there with a very weak shuttle and a tiny amount of enemies occasionally turning up, i wanted to abort by wave 3 and close Warframe completely, there was nothing about this mission type that made me want to play it, interception can be fun, mobile defense isn't too bad, but this? this was just... there isn't a word to describe how dull it was, it might pick up a bit later but i doubt anyone has much patience for it, you've given us a game mode with no movement in a part of the game which i feel is driven by you being able to go really fast through space destroying stuff, in fact you didn't even give us much to shoot at either, it was just bad.

 

Now, beyond the negative thoughts on it being a failure, which no amount of tweaking will make me rethink that, I'd like to suggest something that you could look at for changing defense into a much more mobile game mode in Archwing, first off, go play rogue squadron 2, in it you'll find a mission where you'll be taking on a star destroyer with a sub objective of not allowing a frigate to die, it's fun, you move around a lot, there are plenty of hostiles with multiple things to have to watch out for assuming you aren't already a veteran at the game, this is what Archwing defense should be like, mobile and fun.

 

You've got your Grineer and Corpus fighting over the system right? not to mention you have 6 syndicates and a bunch of relays, there are bound to be civilian cargo/transport ships that would get caught up in the fighting that could do with support, at least in my opinion, and they may well reward Tenno for saving their hides, so I'm suggesting you have you defense helping out that kind of ship from Grineer or corpus patrol ships or similar, you don't even have to destroy those patrol ships, Torpedoes that you have to take out of Heavy ship turrets you can destroy to deter the larger ships would be fine all the while helping control the swarms of smaller units trying to take down the shields of your ally, you'll have players moving around a large area using their Archwing to the fullest with multiple things to take care of and a defense target that can hold on for a bit if needed, then when your 5 waves are done you get the choice to either leave them on their own from there or escort them a bit further, I'd even suggest occasionally getting random support craft appear from a syndicate under good standing, don't have to be unique though separate color schemes would be nice.

 

DE i know you're capable of doing something like this and i don't see why you wouldn't want to have something like this as i think it would seriously increase the appeal of the game mode, not to mention it'd really be taking Archwing to a good level within what it's capable of, your current defense mission is a very poor example of what you can do with Archwing.

 

Thanks for reading, assuming anyone did and any constructive comments or suggestions that might go with this idea are welcome from anyone who takes the time to read, though as I'm not a very active poster i might not reply, so I'll just go ahead apologize if i leave you hanging.

[MageSkeleton]

I did not like navigating through a maze to find out that the objective is to defend 2 different shuttles that are in an enclosed area and has less health and shield than the Mobile Defense addition on Earth/Mars. My Archwing has more health and shield.

 

Unless you go into the defense mission with at least one elytron, it's impossible. I was expecting when a defense mission would be added to compliment the Odanata.... NOPE..... still waiting...

[CluckingLove]

As someone who had no issues grinding all Trinity Prime parts in one night, I can safely say I am a very patient person.

Neptune Archwing Defense was so boring I fell asleep 10 waves in during the middle of the day.

[LordPreda]

They don't need to remove it, they need to adjust enemy behaviour and spawn rates and give more health to those shuttles.

[Culaio]

I believe that mission should go faster, since I saw many times people quiting at 10-15  wave, but since we have two rewards, there should be more enemies to make it harder but also shuttle should have more hp/shield, since I saw many times only few enemies being able to kill shuttle almost instantly.

another thing that needs change is range of affinity sharing in defense missions(actualy it should be changed in EVERY archwing mission) range should cover whole map, since main reason for people lossing one of shuttles(which happen in many missions ive played) is people defending one of shuttle flying to other shuttle where are all the enemies right now just to gain some affinity, after few missions I learned to always fly to oposite side where no one is right now just to make sure if enemies show up suddenly.

 

Last thing I believe need to change is rewards themselves(not just for archwing defense but for all of archwing missions), since for people who put effort into getting archwing stuff(mods, weapons and elytron parts) like me, there is absolutely no reason to play archwing game mode anymore, since we already have everything it has to offer, archwing missions have rewards that lose value after getting them since there is nothing we can do with duplicate of parts of archwing/archwing weapons(cant sell them) and people arent that interested in archwing mods since there isnt much to do in archwing game mode.

Archwing missions need rewards that never lose value like fusion cores or void keys, especially keys, since I want to do more achwing missions but most of time in warframe I spend on getting void keys I need(for prime parts I need and for ducats, especially ducats), but if I could do archwing missions and earn keys I would be extremly happy, of course keyrewards should be proportional to amount of time mission needs, for example doing 30 min mission should give us more then one key as reward

[DiBBz]

Sorry about the text walls but it's just how i ended up doing it :/

 

Okay DE, i really can't think of anything to say for this other than remove it... no I'm not someone who dislikes Archwing, i happen to really enjoy the game mode short of exterminate where enemies seem to have the life goal of fusing with you via ramming... constantly, but Archwing Defense is the most boring game mode in the entire game.

 

Myself and a friend went on the Neptune defense, first time thought we'd try it out, we arrived at the defense target, okay, not looking great, fairly exposed though a lot of unnecessary clutter for enemies to get stuck behind, which they did, we chose to split up to defend each shuttle, i got shuttle B which you can argue may end up with less of the initial enemies but still, neither of us got much to do, we were sat there with a very weak shuttle and a tiny amount of enemies occasionally turning up, i wanted to abort by wave 3 and close Warframe completely, there was nothing about this mission type that made me want to play it, interception can be fun, mobile defense isn't too bad, but this? this was just... there isn't a word to describe how dull it was, it might pick up a bit later but i doubt anyone has much patience for it, you've given us a game mode with no movement in a part of the game which i feel is driven by you being able to go really fast through space destroying stuff, in fact you didn't even give us much to shoot at either, it was just bad.

 

Now, beyond the negative thoughts on it being a failure, which no amount of tweaking will make me rethink that, I'd like to suggest something that you could look at for changing defense into a much more mobile game mode in Archwing, first off, go play rogue squadron 2, in it you'll find a mission where you'll be taking on a star destroyer with a sub objective of not allowing a frigate to die, it's fun, you move around a lot, there are plenty of hostiles with multiple things to have to watch out for assuming you aren't already a veteran at the game, this is what Archwing defense should be like, mobile and fun.

 

You've got your Grineer and Corpus fighting over the system right? not to mention you have 6 syndicates and a bunch of relays, there are bound to be civilian cargo/transport ships that would get caught up in the fighting that could do with support, at least in my opinion, and they may well reward Tenno for saving their hides, so I'm suggesting you have you defense helping out that kind of ship from Grineer or corpus patrol ships or similar, you don't even have to destroy those patrol ships, Torpedoes that you have to take out of Heavy ship turrets you can destroy to deter the larger ships would be fine all the while helping control the swarms of smaller units trying to take down the shields of your ally, you'll have players moving around a large area using their Archwing to the fullest with multiple things to take care of and a defense target that can hold on for a bit if needed, then when your 5 waves are done you get the choice to either leave them on their own from there or escort them a bit further, I'd even suggest occasionally getting random support craft appear from a syndicate under good standing, don't have to be unique though separate color schemes would be nice.

 

DE i know you're capable of doing something like this and i don't see why you wouldn't want to have something like this as i think it would seriously increase the appeal of the game mode, not to mention it'd really be taking Archwing to a good level within what it's capable of, your current defense mission is a very poor example of what you can do with Archwing.

 

Thanks for reading, assuming anyone did and any constructive comments or suggestions that might go with this idea are welcome from anyone who takes the time to read, though as I'm not a very active poster i might not reply, so I'll just go ahead apologize if i leave you hanging.

 TL;DR for everyone!

 

him and friend got board... played defence... map design poor. mobs randomly spawn more on 1 side then switch and rotate between each side. Defence takes way to long (2-3x more than the normal amount of time on a regular defence mission to get to 20 waves) etc etc

 

basically the game mode is dam right awful.. they included so much clutter because they had to add diversity in spawns. so that *4 players* are not camping the outer corners etc.

 

DE... if any dev is reading this please understand this... its so god awfully boring and slow. its completely not worth the time investment into playing it! also the fact that ships are so easily destroyed, you cant make it to 20 waves without like i said a cargo ship being destroyed or someone leaving mid way through mission and everyone have to repeat... witch if you look at how long it even takes to get to 20 waves, lets just say... that restarting back at 1 after HM (Host Migration) will make everyone Rage quit... 

 

this needs to be completely changed... in terms of map design and spawning...

 

they need to spawn faster and less (overall during waves) and the cargo ships need to scale depending on what level it is (or depending on how many are in the party) - this is not regular defence remember... we are not in god like warframes where we can kill hundreds of mobs in seconds... archwing is like i said 2-3x more slower... so there should be a reduction in total overall enemy's spawning at every wave

 

also why is there 2 cargo ships ? it makes for a extremely impossible game mode for people that want to solo. cause i dunno if you have noticed this.. NO ONE PLAYS ARCHWING

 

hence making or finding a party that will actually go to 20 very difficult to come by...

 

as for the OP... im quite the opposite, i think archwing is all right but dam is it the worst thing DE has implemented.. its quite honestly the least played thing in warframe.. hell more people play conclave and thats more enjoyable than arcwhing will ever be...

 

i think its safe to say archwing is one of those game types where it was an experiment for them... much like why solar rail conflicts where an experiment for them as well... 

[Freelancer27]

Actually, IMO.

 

Shortly, Archwing Defense is beyond broken.

 

Enemies cannot track a correct set of pathing.

Enemies literally get stuck on Defense points, simply eradicating the transports without players even noticing it.

Enemies do not spawn in swarms like bees, which are intended to be, instead they are scattered like flies.

Transports are incredibly flimsy, a few shots will simply take them out.

Current enemies within that mission are incredibly powerful, especially to those who recently got their first Archwing.

Corpus Enemies are not well-made, of course, and have a tendency to bug out.

Defense waves are erratic and tends to spawn enemies simply out of place and you have to find them instead of actually protecting your transports.

Defense waves are long and boring, still, especially when you have 1 transport left.

Rewards are undeserving and very unforgivable, especially for its mid-high level.

 

Care I say more? Or less? :3

[rockscl]

I went to wave 10, and i wondered how can anyone get to wave 20 without raging, it was boring, loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong waves with borderline zero action, and when enemies get stuck you cant really know it they are stuck or they havent spawned yet

defense should have been an allied escorting mission ON MOVEMENT, NOT A STATIONARY SHIP, or whatever it is, please, THINK ABOUT AN EXCITING CONTEXT FOR A DEFENSE AND THEN FLESH IT OUT

theres nothing amazing about defending a corpus cargo ship like this, to begin with, it only has the shape of a ship, theres nothing else in it to make me feel like im defending a ship, honestly, in my brain that thing is just a hit box, it doesnt move, there arent civilians around, it doesnt suffer from inertia even if its floating, it doesnt break, it doesnt communicate, theres no perception of magnitude as these ships dont look important at all, they arent noticeably big, they look cheap, low class, irrelevant

fomorian sabotage still has some magic on me, the idea is great, even if i played it a thousand times i like it, go for the same with this, start from a concept that its alluring, the context makes a big part of the magic too, and then do something about the slow spawns and help them getting unstuck, but remember, even if you fix the last two things, the idea has no soul, defending stationary lifeless ships is the same has defending boxes

Edited October 17, 2015 by rockscl

[ysmer]

signed

[indy864]

I really tried to get to the C rotation today - not one team would stay through this snooze-fest.

Its incredibly slow, yet you have to be attentive all the time since the transports are super flimsy and your team is split up.

Just godawful...

[(PSN)SeekerLoki]

I know I'm a bit of a thread reaper, but I played my first archwing defense last night, and I have to say it was terrible.  The pace is soooo slow.  I was with 3 friends and we had nothing good to say about the spawn rate or the length of waves.

[(PSN)Soul-9181]

The Great Bore Fest.

 

Get your parts now while people are still trying it out because soon there will be no one playing it.

[Demon.King]

Just tried Archwing defense again today after getting bored to death 1st time. We go stuck on wave 4 because some enemy got lost and never showed up. To make this even worse and atrocious, when the host left WE WERE RESET TO WAVE 1 !!! really wtf?? Imagine if it got stuck at wave 19...wtf is this S#&$?

 

Besides the bugs and issues, having 2 defense targets, separated by a wall, with crap slow spawns, 1 wave taking 5 fkn minutes, annoying map, makes archwing defense extremely boring...it's unbearable. Which means I will never obtain any item that required an archwing defense.

 

Make it like normal defense, one defense target, higher and more frequent spawns in a spacious room with some cover and it would be fine. no idea why DE completely ignored how normal defense works and gave us this boring turd of a mode instead...

Edited October 31, 2015 by Demon.King

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

I was just going to post this very same subject. In its current format, archwing defense on Neptune is broken. I had three squadmates and we focused solely on one shuttle. We did fine until about wave 17 when they swarmed the shuttle and destroyed its measly 500 shields/2000 health in a matter of seconds. The shuttles need far more health since we have no archwings that function like frost does and can effectively defend the objective. My frustration with this game mode is compounded even further as the last part of both the Phaedra and kaszas drops here and only here so I am going to be forced to do this mission over and over (which takes about twice as long as a regular defense mission) for a chance at one of the two parts I need. I enjoy the new archwing modes a lot, they're a great addition but defense needs a rework and it needs it badly. 

 

Please, please rework this soon. I would really love to have more of a reason to play this mode.

Edited November 1, 2015 by (XB1)RequiemOfReason

[Enno69]

Yup, agree totally. Did it once, hoping to gain some AW xp. Most boring mode I had ever played in this game so far, much worse even than the awful excavations.

[akira_him]

Yup, agree totally. Did it once, hoping to gain some AW xp. Most boring mode I had ever played in this game so far, much worse even than the awful excavations.

this

[Demon.King]

Still boring...

[RevenantPrime]

It's almost like it was designed by someone who never played the game and has no idea how things actually work.

 

Oh wait..

[Culaio]

To me archwing defense feels like test related to question DE asked in hot topic: if endless missions should be harder(difficulty scale faster) while having increased rewards(quicker rewards), yes the question isnt exactly the same thing as we see in this mission since rewards dont come quicker but in doubled amount but mission is without a question much harder then normal defense, I cant even imagine how crazy hard it scales at wave 40 or 60, I dont mind increased difficulty if mission wasnt going so slow,in current state mission is slow and boring.

Also Tenno with archwing are very mobile, so why mission for archwing is so immobile >_>, we should be guarding something that is moving and not standing in place.

 

Here is thread with amazing ideas for archwing missions that would actually be very interesting:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/490604-the-amazing-potential-of-archwing-archwing-mission-concepts-archwing-enemy-concepts/

Edited November 6, 2015 by Culaio

[Mazzuco_]

Cons:

- Low HP shuttle

- Irregular and unbalanced spawn at each side

- Too slow, I would prefer 1 archwing part as reward at wave 10 (about 20 min) than 2 at wave 20 (almost 40 min). Or make 1 choosable at wave 10.

I generally do this before going to bed, it makes me sleepy.

 

Plus, would be nice to have a Scort Mission instead of this static defense or as a new Archwing mode.

[(PSN)Arekaine]

Signed.

 

We went in there with 4 Elytrons using nothing but thumpers. If you thought it was boring before, yikes.

[Demon.King]

What is strange is how much better AW mobile defense is compared to AW Defense...

[AnAngryHorde]

Signed.

 

I just tried it for the first time, solo, and wave 1 took damn forever (I failed partway into wave 2). The first wave wasn't particularly difficult, even with my underleveled archwing*, but it just takes so damn long. Wave 1 took me longer than waves 1-5 of pretty much any other warframe defense that I've played. The enemies spawn so slowly that you're left wondering if the game bugged out leaving you stuck in that wave with no completion possible. The area you're defending is cramped and littered with stuff for enemies to get stuck in, and the enemies get stuck in everything - they get stuck in the invisible walls that prevent you moving vertically and screw your camera up if you try and melee enemies that are stuck there, they get stuck in the shuttles you're trying to defend and clip inside so you can hardly see them, sometimes they even get stuck when they spawn so they can still shoot but you can't melee them.

 

What makes this even worse is that you have to complete this disaster of a level in order to play the assassination mission, so you can't unlock any more levels until you've slogged through 5 waves of tedium, probably on your own because no one wants to play it.

 

 

*(seriously, there need to be more archwing missions if the level range is going to scale the same way as the rest of the level 25+ planets, I've done every archwing mission available to me, and grinded jupiter hundreds of times for the dual decurion parts, and my starting archwing is still only level 14).

[Demon.King]

Still boring...

[DoomFruit]

Oh, it gets worse. Unless something has been changed without any announcement in the patch notes, the XP radius doesn't stretch from one shuttle to the other. So if your squadmates are getting kills while defending shuttle A, you on shuttle B get no benefit from that. It's not even good for XP.