Valkyr's Hysteria Is Not Overpowered.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Now this....this has promise. 

She would have reason to avoid incoming damage (to save energy) and that increases the reward fro skillful movement.

She would have a cap on how much damage she could really take in any given time. 

She would actually have to watch her distancing from enemies as her energy could be burnt off unexpectedly if she took a ton of damage really quickly.

(all we need a smart scaling mechanic for the damage loss to energy drain ratio) 

 

The change you suggest has a lot of merit. Ironically, one could argue that once there is a limit on how much damage she can shrug off before hysteria shuts off it is no longer true invulnerability. But only kind of...heh

 

Either way your idea is something i could get behind.

It's not a bad idea, however similar to Nyx's Absorb your energy would drain ridiculously fast after certain point, so it would scale really really bad into high level. We could make it per hit, but then it would favour the high fire rate enemies versus slow rate ones and melee ones (bombards, infested, nullifiers)

 

What if Valkyr still took damage to health while in Hysteria, but her health wouldn't go below 1HP. However the less HP she has the faster energy drains. Rage mod effect would need to be disabled while you are in Hysteria to prevent infinite energy. This would have somewhat similar effect, but it would limit the maximum energy drain, and also since you can restore health by attacking enemies it would require more strategical approach, to keep your health at high levels when you run from one group of enemies to another. Life Steal effect might need to be toned down a bit because with the current damage output 5% would always be a one hit full heal. Maybe a fixed HP per hit would be the most balanced (like 50 HP per hit?)

[Kolos1001]

It's not a bad idea, however similar to Nyx's Absorb your energy would drain ridiculously fast after certain point, so it would scale really really bad into high level. We could make it per hit, but then it would favour the high fire rate enemies versus slow rate ones and melee ones (bombards, infested, nullifiers)

 

What if Valkyr still took damage to health while in Hysteria, but her health wouldn't go below 1HP. However the less HP she has the faster energy drains. Rage mod effect would need to be disabled while you are in Hysteria to prevent infinite energy. This would have somewhat similar effect, but it would limit the maximum energy drain, and also since you can restore health by attacking enemies it would require more strategical approach, to keep your health at high levels when you run from one group of enemies to another. Life Steal effect might need to be toned down a bit because with the current damage output 5% would always be a one hit full heal. Maybe a fixed HP per hit would be the most balanced (like 50 HP per hit?)

I think per hit is the way to go since every faction has enemies that have a fast hit rate. Infested of course being the weakest but infested have always been weak against valk. 

 

If they did go with your change I think they'd have to remove the built up damage system that's currently in place. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Kolos1001

[StarNight17]

More energy consumption based on damage received.

I know you ain't taking my ideas now.. everyone brushed this off and never gave an argument. Now it's a good idea. Come on now. :P

[Kolos1001]

I know you ain't taking my ideas now.. everyone brushed this off and never gave an argument. Now it's a good idea. Come on now. :P

The problem with making it straight off damage received basically only lets her die after 2 hits instead of 1 at high levels. 

[StarNight17]

Absorb works the same way as this idea. The more damage you take the faster the pool drains up. This keeps valkyr from going for literally ever on hysteria. Which is everyone's problem. This makes it a risk for hysteria. If you keep in it you might not have energy to do anything else really.. not to mention nyx has forced agro in absorb hysteria doesn't.

[Kolos1001]

Absorb works the same way as this idea. The more damage you take the faster the pool drains up. This keeps valkyr from going for literally ever on hysteria. Which is everyone's problem. This makes it a risk for hysteria. If you keep in it you might not have energy to do anything else really.. not to mention nyx has forced agro in absorb hysteria doesn't.

Does absorb break if you take 1 hit from a lvl 150 or is it flat drain per hit regardless of how much damage you take? 

[StarNight17]

Take V.Marelok, shoot the Absorb and watch energy melt. You could also add armor values into the mix and get yourself a slower energy drain if you wish.

[Kolos1001]

Take V.Marelok, shoot the Absorb and watch energy melt. 

That's kind of what I want to avoid. Nyx is a squishy frame while Valk is definitely meant to be a tankier one. Having energy drain per hit count instead of damage retains her tanky side. It might also make people choose when to use hysteria because you'd be draining unnecessary energy if you use it against lvl 10 mobs.  

[Weltraumfred]

I posted a suggestion upthread for the increased energy approach. Allow me to elaborate a bit.

 

Hysteria is unchanged. Heck, we may even loose the "kill this guy or 7.5% of all damage".

 

Now, the game tracks how much damage you recieve in Hysteria, adjusted for armor and ignoring shields. Let's call this value "steam".

For every 400* pts (modified by power strength) of steam you have, the cost of Hysteria increases by 1 per second.

 

To blow off steam, switch off Hysteria. Then it decreases by 100 per second. You might even include options to actively bleed it off, like causing damage via Melee, Ripline and Paralysis (Not sure about that option). 

 

We could also let steam have some benefits. Like, add 10% of your current steam to the base damage of Ripline and Paralyse if you're not running in Hysteria. Now you have an active incentive to drop out of Hysteria and use your direct damage powers.

 

I have to admit that I am terribly unsure about the precise numbers here.

[StarNight17]

That's kind of what I want to avoid. Nyx is a squishy frame while Valk is definitely meant to be a tankier one. Having energy drain per hit count instead of damage retains her tanky side. It might also make people choose when to use hysteria because you'd be draining unnecessary energy if you use it against lvl 10 mobs.

If you knew how much damage that accumulated to I don't think squishy would be the word I'd use

[5H4DE]

So many people defending flawless immortality...

Dmg falloff?Not really since it now takes your mods not your weapon

Stuck on melee ? deactivate and shoot

Taking the dmg stacked upon deactivation near enemies ? Only happens if the enemy that inflicted the dmg is near you , if its an enemy that didnt hit you , you wont take dmg (I tested that thing a few times already )

Needing to kill your other abilities to mod for hysteria ?How ? You only need continuity and the 75% efficiency to be capped on drain

War Cry doesent last enough ? Eternal War , you're going to stay in melee for the next 120 minutes anyway .

 

 

And for the love of Lotus , STOP pretending immortality is the only thing that can keep you going in endless missions , before the rework NO ONE ever considered taking Valkyr in endless stuff , now that she is out of flaws EVERYONE wants her .

Its the same as with Mesa , people keep complaining that she is useless now and cant go 60+waves in defenses because they lack the fire power , no one needed Mesa before she came out to get past that point but as soon as a powerhouse comes up it becomes the only viable option for everyone . Im sick of this attitude where the new powerhouse is the only viable thing and everything else is trash and useless .

[Gr3vi3R]

Im just gonna say this because this is a Forum and people like to hear opinions.

 

This kind of invulnerability that makes you go for 2 hours in survival just makes me want to Quit because there's no challenge at all.

That's how I see it.

[Kolos1001]

Im just gonna say this because this is a Forum and people like to hear opinions.

 

This kind of invulnerability that makes you go for 2 hours in survival just makes me want to Quit because there's no challenge at all.

That's how I see it.

So stop playing 2 hour survivals...There's a whole 99% of the rest of the game where hysteria is just an average ability. 

[OfficerBeepsky]

It's not a bad idea, however similar to Nyx's Absorb your energy would drain ridiculously fast after certain point, so it would scale really really bad into high level. We could make it per hit, but then it would favour the high fire rate enemies versus slow rate ones and melee ones (bombards, infested, nullifiers)

 

What if Valkyr still took damage to health while in Hysteria, but her health wouldn't go below 1HP. However the less HP she has the faster energy drains. Rage mod effect would need to be disabled while you are in Hysteria to prevent infinite energy. This would have somewhat similar effect, but it would limit the maximum energy drain, and also since you can restore health by attacking enemies it would require more strategical approach, to keep your health at high levels when you run from one group of enemies to another. Life Steal effect might need to be toned down a bit because with the current damage output 5% would always be a one hit full heal. Maybe a fixed HP per hit would be the most balanced (like 50 HP per hit?)

 

Rage mod.

Im just gonna say this because this is a Forum and people like to hear opinions.

 

This kind of invulnerability that makes you go for 2 hours in survival just makes me want to Quit because there's no challenge at all.

That's how I see it.

It's actually very, very challenging to keep the game going that long, because you need to kill absurdly high level enemies fast enough to keep life support up.

 

You're basically in a constant state of "oh god oh god oh god OH GOD" after about 40 minutes. Nullifiers freaking everywhere.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

What if Valkyr still took damage to health while in Hysteria, but her health wouldn't go below 1HP. However the less HP she has the faster energy drains. Rage mod effect would need to be disabled while you are in Hysteria to prevent infinite energy. This would have somewhat similar effect, but it would limit the maximum energy drain, and also since you can restore health by attacking enemies it would require more strategical approach, to keep your health at high levels when you run from one group of enemies to another. Life Steal effect might need to be toned down a bit because with the current damage output 5% would always be a one hit full heal. Maybe a fixed HP per hit would be the most balanced (like 50 HP per hit?)

 

Rage mod.

Read the underlined part again please.

[LoveLoveBeam]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.

Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

 

Tryndamere's ult lasts for 5 seconds not 3. And that is a completely different game, balanced around pvp.

 

There's no such thing as a warframe being "too easy to play", if you don't like it don't play it - there are enough choices that you could play another frame.

[Ronyn]

Yes league is very different type of game because its pvp. If we want something more applicaple we could use borderlands cause its a co op shooter with powers...or diablo cause its a co op dungeon crawler with randomly generated levels.

In a similar way invulnerability is a more limited time thing in both games.

There's no such thing as a warframe being "too easy to play", if you don't like it don't play it - there are enough choices that you could play another frame.

Digital extremes may very well have an oppion on what the lowest level of skill required to play in their game should be. They have expressed that they don't like the press-4-win style of play which...pressing one button a lot is about as easy as it gets. DE want players to be more involved\engaged then that.

I'm not suggesting that hysteria is quite that mindless.

I'm just pointing that your assertion about choice in frame negating the idea that any frame can be to easy does not match developer intent.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Ronyn

[Hinweis]

I completely agree with what you're saying here. Also something that needs to be accounted for is Valkyr is just plain fun how she is. Nerfing her would take that fun away.
Also Nullifiers seem to be enough of a balance, you accidentally go into one of those orange death bubbles and your hysteria deactivates and you take that 7.5% damage which is usually enough to kill you.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I completely agree with what you're saying here. Also something that needs to be accounted for is Valkyr is just plain fun how she is. Nerfing her would take that fun away.

Also Nullifiers seem to be enough of a balance, you accidentally go into one of those orange death bubbles and your hysteria deactivates and you take that 7.5% damage which is usually enough to kill you.

That "enough balance" only works on 2 out of 4 factions though. Other two factions are completely helpless. Also being OP is always fun for a couple of days/weeks, then it just becomes ridiculously boring.

[Kolos1001]

That "enough balance" only works on 2 out of 4 factions though. Other two factions are completely helpless. Also being OP is always fun for a couple of days/weeks, then it just becomes ridiculously boring.

To be fair that's just a player preference. 

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey guys, since this thread has gotten to 14 pages with several posts being hidden I think it's time for a reminder. Do not start flamewars with one another. If you're having an issue with someone report them instead of fueling the fire. 

 

Thanks! Carry on   (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧

[Annoying_killah]

Being able to go 10min-1.5 hours straight invincible and no need to recast the ability is obviously OP (in my opinion).

 

 

Yeah...

Edited October 14, 2015 by Annoying_killah

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

Good design of any game does not trivialize challenge, it adds spice and variety to the gameplay that makes whatever class or character you play as distinguished among it's peers, in my opinion. 

 

You talk of skill and being a 'pro' when all that amounts to with Valkyr is pressing 4, mindlessly mashing E, and occasionally doing an easy to abuse bullet jump to get out of jail free and re-pop Hysteria. This is of course after the fact that you can just take a massive dump's worth of energy cookies and continue to make your energy bar moot. 

 

Warframe takes as much skill as tying my shoes.

 

And in the end whenever someone disagrees with your types defending blatantly poor imbalanced mechanics you immediately demonize the naysayers by claiming we're trying to ruin EVERYONE ELSES EXPERIENCE. I'm sorry, but did this mysterious 'everyone else' put you forth as their camp's official spokesman?

 

Since when was a game developer bound to shape their game specifically around one vocal minority of the communities over another? The high degrees of which this community is afraid of any kind of change curdles my blood at times, especially when so many of this game's mechanics are half finished and messily tied together.

 

Saying that, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game or don't play it often with my friends when they're on, but at least I don't turn a blind eye to it and go rabid the second someone tries to kick your crutch out from under you.

 

Valkyre's issue is her ult removes any challenge from the game with what little there is.

 

Trinity needs set up for it and even then it just makes her tanky, not invulnerable.

 

Chroma has stupidly high armor.

 

Nyx gets a fair trade-off.

 

Excal's ult... I don't even know how to begin balancing it and it likely won't get balanced without most of the forum-goers having an aneurysm. 

 

Ash's BS is effectively Press 4 to watch Ubisoft's newest Assassins creed trailer while we kill everything for you! 

 

Mesa is immobile and only blocks 95% of the damage coming her way. That's not invulnerability, it just makes her more durable as Grineer shoot you from all angles but you will still see her health go down if unattended. 

 

 

TL;DR Valkyr is just as bad as the very original concept of a Duration Trinity back when you could have a 45 second Blessing that gave 100% damage reduction. There is no skill in god-mode and running mindlessly around wailing on things by mashing E for 45+ minutes, I'm sorry but if that's the hardest thing you've ever done in a video-game ever I'd hate to see you try any game that's remotely balanced in it's character and enemy design. 

Stole the words from my mouth. Take my +1

[kaboomonme]

It's not a bad idea, however similar to Nyx's Absorb your energy would drain ridiculously fast after certain point, so it would scale really really bad into high level. We could make it per hit, but then it would favour the high fire rate enemies versus slow rate ones and melee ones (bombards, infested, nullifiers)

What if Valkyr still took damage to health while in Hysteria, but her health wouldn't go below 1HP. However the less HP she has the faster energy drains. Rage mod effect would need to be disabled while you are in Hysteria to prevent infinite energy. This would have somewhat similar effect, but it would limit the maximum energy drain, and also since you can restore health by attacking enemies it would require more strategical approach, to keep your health at high levels when you run from one group of enemies to another. Life Steal effect might need to be toned down a bit because with the current damage output 5% would always be a one hit full heal. Maybe a fixed HP per hit would be the most balanced (like 50 HP per hit?)

I think I much prefer this idea over the energy drain one. This removes the "Godmode" that everyone despises by giving the ability a very big risk while using it. If you turn it iff without dealing damage to heal yourself, you die.

I think the energy consumption rate increase per-hit makes no sense though. One of the main reasons people like the ability is because Valkyr can facetank damage in certain situations to do things other frames can't. Why change that? It's what makes her fun, and changing that will throw her back ito the "ugh" tier.

By doing the energy drain change, instead of giving a tradeoff to what makes her fun, you essentially limit/almost remove what makes her fun in the first place. That makes bad design imo, and that's what DE is doing with all the frame reworks at the moment, and that is to reinforce the fun part of the frame's theme while removing unnecessary limitations holding it back.

Edited October 13, 2015 by kaboomonme

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

I feel like alot of the balancing issues in this game will be akin to cauterizing a wound. Thinking about it and doing it will be painful. But it'll save you from bleeding out and dying.