Valkyr's Hysteria Is Not Overpowered.

[Eyeless]

-Replying to the 1st post- 

 

Good design of any game does not trivialize challenge, it adds spice and variety to the gameplay that makes whatever class or character you play as distinguished among it's peers, in my opinion. 

 

You talk of skill and being a 'pro' when all that amounts to with Valkyr is pressing 4, mindlessly mashing E, and occasionally doing an easy to abuse bullet jump to get out of jail free and re-pop Hysteria. This is of course after the fact that you can just take a massive dump's worth of energy cookies and continue to make your energy bar moot. 

 

Warframe takes as much skill as tying my shoes.

 

And in the end whenever someone disagrees with your types defending blatantly poor imbalanced mechanics you immediately demonize the naysayers by claiming we're trying to ruin EVERYONE ELSES EXPERIENCE. I'm sorry, but did this mysterious 'everyone else' put you forth as their camp's official spokesman?

 

Since when was a game developer bound to shape their game specifically around one vocal minority of the communities over another? The high degrees of which this community is afraid of any kind of change curdles my blood at times, especially when so many of this game's mechanics are half finished and messily tied together.

 

Saying that, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game or don't play it often with my friends when they're on, but at least I don't turn a blind eye to it and go rabid the second someone tries to kick your crutch out from under you.

 

Valkyre's issue is her ult removes any challenge from the game with what little there is.

 

Trinity needs set up for it and even then it just makes her tanky, not invulnerable.

 

Chroma has stupidly high armor.

 

Nyx gets a fair trade-off.

 

Excal's ult... I don't even know how to begin balancing it and it likely won't get balanced without most of the forum-goers having an aneurysm. 

 

Ash's BS is effectively Press 4 to watch Ubisoft's newest Assassins creed trailer while we kill everything for you! 

 

Mesa is immobile and only blocks 95% of the damage coming her way. That's not invulnerability, it just makes her more durable as Grineer shoot you from all angles but you will still see her health go down if unattended. 

 

 

TL;DR Valkyr is just as bad as the very original concept of a Duration Trinity back when you could have a 45 second Blessing that gave 100% damage reduction. There is no skill in god-mode and running mindlessly around wailing on things by mashing E for 45+ minutes, I'm sorry but if that's the hardest thing you've ever done in a video-game ever I'd hate to see you try any game that's remotely balanced in it's character and enemy design. 

[Ronyn]

But he is able to be invincible! That's all it matter. As long as he is invincible, he is op. (trying my best to sound like some of the people here)

This is you grossly oversimplifying peoples arguments in an attempt to invalidate them. Bad form that.

[Buzkyl]

Even the raid is a joke; players don't even kill enemies and just permaCC the map.  Meanwhile, enemies typically one-shot players.  The raid is a failed experiment, IMO.  If that's the "endgame" that I can look forward to, then I want no part of it.  

Regardless of our opinion, the staff consider Raids the endgame mission for high rank players.

 

Raids are at best environmental puzzles done under pressure than facing tough enemies.

[RealPandemonium]

Regardless of our opinion, the staff consider Raids the endgame mission for high rank players.

 

Raids are at best environmental puzzles done under pressure than facing tough enemies.

If Raids are puzzles then that means that they are not representative of intended  endgame gameplay.

[Buzkyl]

If Raids are puzzles then that means that they are not representative of intended  endgame gameplay.

 

The staff never directly mentioned any set criteria for warframe raids. Our only information was that they were intended for 8 high level players facing high level enemies and it will make them think to solve it's challenges. You cannot say they are not representative of intended gameplay as for the most part, we only got  a vague description what it they are and the staff kept to it.  Whether you are satisfied with the current way WF handles raids is a subject entirely.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Buzkyl

[-CM-Syein]

This is you grossly oversimplifying peoples arguments in an attempt to invalidate them. Bad form that.

dude, you totally disregarded my other arguments. Like I stated "Trying my best to sound like some of the people here", what part of the "some" don't ye get? And believe it or not, if you read the entire thread at all, the "some" might as well be a "most". It's a complete sarcasm to my reply toward the other guy and limbo. 

[ToastyCosty]

i still don't get why people is going ap3sh1t about hysteria, it's the same as the old hysteria but with less drain. the only difference is that in the old one i had to press 4 every 30 seconds, now i don't

 

i still rarely use valkyr, the forced melee while invincible is a way too big drawback in terms of clear speed and general dps

 

for the same reason we should have "nerf blessing" threads popping at the rate at 5/s because it offers a TEAM invincibility

 

but we don't

 

can someone enlighten me please?

Edited October 11, 2015 by ToastyCosty

[--Sensei--]

i still don't get why people is going ap3sh1t about hysteria, it's the same as the old hysteria but with less drain. the only difference is that in the old one i had to press 4 every 30 seconds, now i don't

 

i still rarely use valkyr, the forced melee while invincible is a way too big drawback in terms of clear speed and general dps

 

for the same reason we should have "nerf blessing" threads popping at the rate at 5/s because it offers a TEAM invincibility

 

but we don't

 

can someone enlighten me please?

 

Because it does more dmg now than when it didn't do any dmg before?

 

Moreso just straight oneshotting everything in late game stuff.

Edited October 11, 2015 by --Sensei--

[ToastyCosty]

Because it does more dmg now than when it didn't do any dmg before?

 

Moreso just straight oneshotting everything in late game stuff.

 

ok i didn't know it recived a damage buff, yet i checked on the wiki and apparently the max power strenght build makes it deal 740 damage per sweep, further enpowered by melee mods right? so lets' say after all the multipliers and stuff the melee damage you deal is 10 times more

 

so le'ts say 7400 damage

 

a boltor prime does the same damage with 3 bullets, but it's ranged and can possibly have punch through

 

am i wrong?

Edited October 11, 2015 by ToastyCosty

[gallowsCalibrator]

i still don't get why people is going ap3sh1t about hysteria, it's the same as the old hysteria but with less drain. the only difference is that in the old one i had to press 4 every 30 seconds, now i don't

 

i still rarely use valkyr, the forced melee while invincible is a way too big drawback in terms of clear speed and general dps

 

for the same reason we should have "nerf blessing" threads popping at the rate at 5/s because it offers a TEAM invincibility

 

but we don't

 

can someone enlighten me please?

Have you tried building a pure Hysteria Valkyr?

 

Right now, on a full energy pool, I can maintain Hysteria continuously for upwards of 8 minutes without a single energy drop. A 25 energy orb will give me another 40 seconds of time in Hysteria.

 

This is time that I am completely invulnerable to all damage, knockdowns, status effects, and energy drain, which means that unless I walk into a nullifier field, nothing is capable of doing anything threatening to me.

 

To top that off, my claws will make mincemeat out of any non-armored enemy even past level 100. While armored enemies laugh at my damage once the scaling takes off, I can just laugh in their face by using Paralysis to stun them and expose them to a Finisher, which ignores their armor and shields and deals about 500,000 damage.

 

All this is with me built for Corrosive Cold on my sword and using Steel Charge as my Aura because I haven't used a Forma on my Valkyr to change any of her polarities.

 

EDIT: New info about duration, updated my calculations.

Edited October 11, 2015 by gallowsCalibrator

[--AJ-Larkhans]

Just passing to say that I Agree to the OP and we do not need another nerfed frame to be stocked and never used, Valkyr is not OP, she is just immune to damage, but she is not a miraculous frame, she needs a team and if you take a team into consideration every other frame is OP, right now you can't solo void missions because of nullifiers, and when it comes to a point that the rest of the team is dying valkyr is certainly not able to kill neither to survive against nullifiers.

Valkyr is fine, you guys simply don't know how to play and blame a good frame for it. 

[gallowsCalibrator]

Just passing to say that I Agree to the OP and we do not need another nerfed frame to be stocked and never used, Valkyr is not OP, she is just immune to damage, but she is not a miraculous frame, she needs a team and if you take a team into consideration every other frame is OP, right now you can't solo void missions because of nullifiers, and when it comes to a point that the rest of the team is dying valkyr is certainly not able to kill neither to survive against nullifiers.

Valkyr is fine, you guys simply don't know how to play and blame a good frame for it. 

Please don't be presumptuous just to insult people.

 

Valkyr can deal with nullifiers just fine as long as you know how to maintain your distance and hit their bubble without walking into it.

Edited October 11, 2015 by gallowsCalibrator

[Davoodoo]

Valkyr on base energy got 200s of complete invicbility extended by 33s for evey energy orb she picks up.

 

You think thats fine??

[--AJ-Larkhans]

Please don't be presumptuous just to insult people.

 

Valkyr can deal with nullifiers just fine as long as you know how to maintain your distance and hit their bubble without walking into it.

 

It is dangerous to do that, and if you fail BAM 1hitko.

And you are right with the insulting thing, kinda low of me to come with that.

[ToastyCosty]

Have you tried building a pure Hysteria Valkyr?

 

Right now, on a full energy pool, I can maintain Hysteria continuously for upwards of 8 minutes without a single energy drop. A 25 energy orb will give me another 40 seconds of time in Hysteria.

 

This is time that I am completely invulnerable to all damage, knockdowns, status effects, and energy drain, which means that unless I walk into a nullifier field, nothing is capable of doing anything threatening to me.

 

To top that off, my claws will make mincemeat out of any non-armored enemy even past level 100. While armored enemies laugh at my damage once the scaling takes off, I can just laugh in their face by using Paralysis to stun them and expose them to a Finisher, which ignores their armor and shields and deals about 500,000 damage.

 

All this is with me built for Corrosive Cold on my sword and using Steel Charge as my Aura because I haven't used a Forma on my Valkyr to change any of her polarities.

 

EDIT: New info about duration, updated my calculations.

 

 

your points are valid, but there are plenty of methods to incapacitate an entire room full of enemies with one button press (radial blind, bastille, avalanche, antimatter drop) and still deal tons of damage

 

you also consider using a full duration/efficency build right? so that reduces you power strenght by a lot, so you will just deal paper damage against lvl80 enemies (tested it myself right now)

 

also you complain about Uber-damage against armored targets via finisher? i can get that too by using ash with teleport + covert lethality, cheap instakill with 1 button press, also i could use invisibility for a sort of invulnerability since enemies can't hit me

 

i can agree with a energy drain nerf, 2,5 may be too low, but still the rest of hysteria is ok and on par with other frames abilities

[Thaumatos]

Reason why Valkyr is OP:

Of bloody course she'd be able to last longer in T4S than anyone else, she's invincible,

TY OfficerBeepsky.  Couldn't have said it better myself.

[gallowsCalibrator]

your points are valid, but there are plenty of methods to incapacitate an entire room full of enemies with one button press (radial blind, bastille, avalanche, antimatter drop) and still deal tons of damage

 

you also consider using a full duration/efficency build right? so that reduces you power strenght by a lot, so you will just deal paper damage against lvl80 enemies (tested it myself right now)

 

also you complain about Uber-damage against armored targets via finisher? i can get that too by using ash with teleport + covert lethality, cheap instakill with 1 button press, also i could use invisibility for a sort of invulnerability since enemies can't hit me

 

i can agree with a energy drain nerf, 2,5 may be too low, but still the rest of hysteria is ok and on par with other frames abilities

I am using a duration/efficiency build, but I have 193% power strength. I'm only using Blind Rage rank 6 and Intensify. I have 179% Power Duration and 155% Efficiency. The only stat that isn't over 100% is range, which is at 79% because I'm using Stretch.

 

I'm not complaining about high damage versus armored enemies. In my opinion the armor scaling is bullS#&$ and should've been removed with Damage 2.0 because all it's done is change the endgame requirements from Armor Piercing/Physics Impact damage type weapons to a full party with Corrosive Projection. I'm pointing it out because normally high-level armored enemies would be impossible to kill without four Corrosive Projections, but Valkyr has the ability to negate that.

 

What I'm saying is that Hysteria has very few weaknesses, but even those weaknesses can be played around with enough skill.

Edited October 11, 2015 by gallowsCalibrator

[ToastyCosty]

What I'm saying is that Hysteria has very few weaknesses, but even those weaknesses can be played around with enough skill.

 

you hit a nail on the head, that's why it's a good ability imho, and even greater if played correctly

[--AJ-Larkhans]

 

What I'm saying is that Hysteria has very few weaknesses, but even those weaknesses can be played around with enough skill.

 

With enough skill you can solo almost anything with almost any frame, not only valkyr, so lets nerf her so skill does not count.

It has weaknesses an they balance hysteria.

[--Sensei--]

ok i didn't know it recived a damage buff, yet i checked on the wiki and apparently the max power strenght build makes it deal 740 damage per sweep, further enpowered by melee mods right? so lets' say after all the multipliers and stuff the melee damage you deal is 10 times more

 

so le'ts say 7400 damage

 

a boltor prime does the same damage with 3 bullets, but it's ranged and can possibly have punch through

 

am i wrong?

 

Atm my Valkyr can hit 20-40k per slash combo.

 

With slide atk I deal 400k

 

with paralysis buff support (Her 3) I can hit 700k crits (Note: with a negative efficiency build paralysis cost around 6 energy to cast). 

 

 

This is a lv 90^

 

 

Boltor prime doesn't one shot level 90s.

 

So yeh you're kinda wrong.

 

Also I never considered boltor prime endgame material so I wouldn't use that for any sort of measuring stick for anything.

Edited October 11, 2015 by --Sensei--

[tinyranitar]

Let me tell you one thing. 

 

She isn't good because she is invincible. She is OP. 

 

So you tell me it takes "Skill" to play her? To be honest, if you have as much skill as you brag, you wouldn't need invincibility.

 

I perma-Hysteria from 5 mins t3 survival till 40 min and my Hysteria counter only reached 2k damage, which wouldn't even kill me if I ever "carelessly" step into null bubble.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Edit: And to anyone who wants to claim that the invulnerability should be completely removed, this is a friendly reminder that mesa gets 95% damage reduction from shatter shield, Valkyr needs something tankier than that or else her entire theme is broken.

...dude, valkyr has 600 BASEarmor, buffed armor on Warcry, DOUBLED ARMOR on your energy when using QT and last but not least: access to permanent channeling and/or simply the free Healing per hit using Hysteria

ADD DAMAGE REDUCTION INSTEAD OF INVINCIBILITY AND SHE IS STILL THE FRICKIN TANK-GOD. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE ACCESS TO RAGE!

Edited October 11, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[NeroGrave]

Like I said before, just remove her invincibility but give her 100000000 armor instead, so she's not god-mode and kill-able but still works the same as the current one. So people can't complain "but she can't die!!! That is soooo OP". Problem solved.

 

*huehuehue*

[gallowsCalibrator]

you hit a nail on the head, that's why it's a good ability imho, and even greater if played correctly

My point is that those weaknesses aren't nearly enough. All you really need to do the nullifier trick is to know that melee weapons can do damage to bubbles, as the damage you deal will make the bubbles shrink at about the same pace as your attacks move you forward.

 

Armored enemies won't be an issue if you have a party with Corrosive Projection anyway, and they're not a significant threat even without due to the ability to press 3 and left-click to instakill them. Even before I learned that Paralysis opens enemies to finishers I was just jump smashing and doing ground finishers to kill heavily armored enemies.

 

These skills aren't hard to learn or execute.

 

With enough skill you can solo almost anything with almost any frame, not only valkyr, so lets nerf her so skill does not count.

It has weaknesses an they balance hysteria.

As I said above, they aren't enough. All frames are vulnerable to nullifiers, not just Valkyr, and none of them have 600 base armor. Just because Valkyr might be forced to stop being invulnerable because of an enemy that also removes that status from everyone else doesn't make the ability balanced.

 

People didn't complain about Hysteria before because it always turned off at some point and it didn't do more damage than most guns. Now that you never have to drop the invulnerability and have enough power to rely solely on the claws, there's pretty much nothing the game can do to stop you.

[Kolos1001]

My point is that those weaknesses aren't nearly enough. All you really need to do the nullifier trick is to know that melee weapons can do damage to bubbles, as the damage you deal will make the bubbles shrink at about the same pace as your attacks move you forward.

 

Armored enemies won't be an issue if you have a party with Corrosive Projection anyway, and they're not a significant threat even without due to the ability to press 3 and left-click to instakill them. Even before I learned that Paralysis opens enemies to finishers I was just jump smashing and doing ground finishers to kill heavily armored enemies.

 

These skills aren't hard to learn or execute.

 

As I said above, they aren't enough. All frames are vulnerable to nullifiers, not just Valkyr, and none of them have 600 base armor. Just because Valkyr might be forced to stop being invulnerable because of an enemy that also removes that status from everyone else doesn't make the ability balanced.

 

People didn't complain about Hysteria before because it always turned off at some point and it didn't do more damage than most guns. Now that you never have to drop the invulnerability and have enough power to rely solely on the claws, there's pretty much nothing the game can do to stop you.

Hysteria=exalted blade. Trades off range for invulnerability. Otherwise it's the same ability. 

 

EB is more useful until enemies 1 shot. Then it switches to Hysteria being more useful. There's nothing wrong with being specialized. 

 

People didn't complain about Hysteria before because it was horrible. You were a moving loki decoy. You did no damage. There was no toggle so you were forced into doing zero damage for x amount of time. Now it actually does what it's supposed to. Oh god how terrible. 

 

As for "nothing in the game can stop you" You mean nothing in survival can stop you. Enemies can still take objectives and attack cryo pods etc. 

 

If you're not playing solo there are better team comps that do not include valk in every single mission type. 

 

She's good at soloing. That's not enough to warrant a nerf when there are much more effective things in the game.