Valkyr's Hysteria Is Not Overpowered.

[--Sensei--]

You know, the screenshot people keep using as evidence of Hysteria's insane damage output seems to be quite misleading. With a potatoed melee weapon like the Dragon Nikana, loaded with a good but not great set of mods, in a T4S Heavy Gunners, Ancients, and other tough units were taking multiple hits and required 2-5 seconds each to kill around the 25 minute mark.

 

Melee weapons seem to have some very interesting critical interactions that occasionally lead to ridiculous crits. I think it happens when someone would be eligible for a finisher but isn't directly targeted-but the idea that Hysteria outputs "millions of damage per second" is based on a bug with melee weapon damage in general, not Hysteria having some insane sick-nasty damage.

 

This is very selective perception-people keep harping on the potential 440k crit and forget that her normal damage is a tiny fraction of that.

 

It literally only takes 1 slide atk to one shot ancients/gunners/bombards. Tested myself in the simulacrum with 10 bombards spawned.

[Nighttide77]

You could also multiply the base drain of Hysteria. Like for every 2000* pts of damage she takes in Hysteria (mitigated by armor ... o hai warcry synergy) her drain per time increases by 100%*. Dunno how difficult that would be engine wise ...

* pulled those numbers totally out of my !, just for the example

You could also let her reduce the accumulated damage by exessive Life strike damage, as an incentive to stay engaged in melee

Increased energy drain for damage taken, whatever the numbers, would actually make it more challenging to use and maintain. I like this.

[TychusMechanicus]

I'm baffled.

 

Valkyr was always capable of going indefinitely long as long as you could overcome damage fall off!

Eternal War? Warcry builds centered along heavy hitter melee weapons and life strike? Innate 600 armor you can mod your abilities for to have a base 98% damage mitigation on health? I did 60m ODS rounds solo, farming for Nova Prime, with her and a Scindo prime before the rework. 

 

Suddenly she got a bit of spotlight and made her kit more comfortable to use with Hysteria being toggle and Ripline being easier and more rewarding to use and people are whining about it. Barely anything changed in her power level.

 

Do you really want everything nerfed EXCEPT your precious favourite frame?

 

I literally never see requests for a Valkyr in the recruiting chat because she is pretty much a solo frame offering very limited squad buffs that are aimed at weapons that are not even popular: melee weapons.

 

But if your Rhino/Ash/whatever flavour of the month frame isn't invulnerable Warframe's only melee based berserker frame should definitely not be that either, am I correct to assume this is the general attitude?

 

And the most prevalent argument against her is that people saw a video of a 120m T4S run?

 

Going 120m in a T4S is not that mind bogglingly difficult with any other frame, be it supported by life strike, crowd control or a life steal furis or just craftable gear and AoE weapons but as soon as you see a rework on a not so popular frame and someone proving a point by doing a 120m run and you cry OP? There are videos of players pulling off crazy long solo runs in this mission with a large variety of frames.

 

Unless you go a solo 120m run with your Valkyr and other frames to see how easy/hard it is to do yourself don't come running here asking a frame to be nerfed/buffed.

 

Instead of celebrating skill you ask the seen equipment to be nerfed because you cannot pull it off with your own favourite choice? That can be pulled off with an AMD absorb based Nova, Ice element Chroma, Exalted Blade Excal just to name few choices I'd go for from the top of my head.

 

Sorry for the rant but I got really disappointed (don't know what I even expected) when I saw the reactions in the thread.

 

Valkyr is fine as she is, especially so if your biggest counter argument is that you can solo a "hard" mission with her for a long time. She is not the only one that can do that with ease.

If you compare her to other frames in depth you'll find that it is not her that is overpowered but certain frames abilities didn't age well and in need of a buff/rework instead. Not to mention she could always be practically invulnerable with or without Hysteria changes.

[Phobonaut]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.

Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

Talking about the lowest of the lowest garbage in online videogames. Opinion discarded.

[TheBrsrkr]

Talking about the lowest of the lowest garbage in online videogames. Opinion discarded.

That's not how feedback works.

[Phobonaut]

Someone who compares apples and bricks doesn't provide meaningful ideas to provide feedback on.

[RealPandemonium]

You know, the screenshot people keep using as evidence of Hysteria's insane damage output seems to be quite misleading. With a potatoed melee weapon like the Dragon Nikana, loaded with a good but not great set of mods, in a T4S Heavy Gunners, Ancients, and other tough units were taking multiple hits and required 2-5 seconds each to kill around the 25 minute mark.

 

Melee weapons seem to have some very interesting critical interactions that occasionally lead to ridiculous crits. I think it happens when someone would be eligible for a finisher but isn't directly targeted-but the idea that Hysteria outputs "millions of damage per second" is based on a bug with melee weapon damage in general, not Hysteria having some insane sick-nasty damage.

 

This is very selective perception-people keep harping on the potential 440k crit and forget that her normal damage is a tiny fraction of that.

There is a critical bug that outputs huge damage to ragdolled enemies, but the Hysteria screenshots have nothing to do with that.  As others said, the slide attack outputs huge damage, and priming enemies with Paralysis makes it affected by SDM for x4 damage, so that damage stays ridiculous (in the millions) effectively forever.  Also try knocking enemies down, Paralysis, and a ground finisher for some crazy damage as well.  It's almost like a joke, how much damage Hysteria does now.  

Edited October 13, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[TheBrsrkr]

Someone who compares apples and bricks doesn't provide meaningful ideas to provide feedback on.

Someone comparing apples and bricks is at least giving his manner of justification, instead of dismissing other people's opinions because you don't agree and no other reason.

[Phobonaut]

Suddenly she got a bit of spotlight and made her kit more comfortable to use with Hysteria being toggle and Ripline being easier and more rewarding to use and people are whining about it. Barely anything changed in her power level.

 

Do you really want everything nerfed EXCEPT your precious favourite frame?

It's always the same story here. Nerf X because I want Y to be the best. It's getting really frustrating.

Hell, talk with people ingame about the forums and people will joke for hours about how the forums are just a pile of sour sad nerf-addicts.

[RealPandemonium]

It's always the same story here. Nerf X because I want Y to be the best. It's getting really frustrating.

Hell, talk with people ingame about the forums and people will joke for hours about how the forums are just a pile of sour sad nerf-addicts.

How about nerf X because it makes the game booooooring?

[TheBrsrkr]

It's always the same story here. Nerf X because I want Y to be the best. It's getting really frustrating.

Hell, talk with people ingame about the forums and people will joke for hours about how the forums are just a pile of sour sad nerf-addicts.

How about nerf X because it's horrible for the game and the nest reason you could come up with NOT to nerf X is petty insults?

[Phobonaut]

How does it make the game boring? People talk about Valkyr trivializing the game with Hysteria, but the only Valkyrs I've seen haven't even used their abilities. Instead they rely on their high armour value and just Sancti Tigris everything to death.

[kaboomonme]

I just finished my Valkyr build before the rework too. Oh well.

I never thought the rework would make that big of a deal to people but... meh. If it really bothers you guys that much, then fine. I honestly wouldn't mind not having Godmode on her ult. It's handy for rezzing peeps, but that's about it.

Suggest a change maybe? The energy drain one sounds interesting.

Maybe she gets a percentage of her armor boosted according to the number of enemies in the vicinity? The shallow grave idea sounds cool as well : she doesn't go below 1 HP while in Hysteria, but she better make sure she kills everything in the vicinity to avoid sudden death. Prolly should get some form of damage reduction to compensate for this though.

[TychusMechanicus]

How about nerf X because it makes the game booooooring?

 

How about nerf X because it's horrible for the game and the nest reason you could come up with NOT to nerf X is petty insults?

 

 

How is a melee focused frame being invulnerable for energy drain horrible and boring for you?

 

Is Valkyr killing your game because it instagibs everything in a 50m radius around her as soon as she hits her Hysteria and she cannot even be killed?

Is it boring because you have nothing on the map because she took all your kills?

 

You know, I mostly saw people sniping away targets from my melee range when I need to use Life Strike or god forbid Hysteria as a Valkyr to regain health. Nobody I saw in a game complained about this ruining their game, unlike with Mesa or my pet hate Ash. In fact other players were grateful that I could revive them in the massive crossfire when they screwed up.

 

Is it then not bothering you that Mesa reflects damage and has a 95% damage reduction?

Or that a Chroma can do the same with over 99% reduction and even gets a massive damage multiplier doing so?

Or Ash presses 4 and starts dealing finisher damage while he cannot be shot at? Or he goes invisible?

Or Loki goes invisible?

Even Nyx can absorb insane amounts of incoming fire for another energy drain?

Zephyr can deflect all incoming fire (yes, hitscan too by lowering their accuracy to near 0 within a radius if you actually mod for range too)?

Nova making enemies have abysmal movement and fire rate to the point you can run circles between them without taking any hits or god forbid even eat all incoming fire with an Anti Matter Absorb mod?

Limbo and the rift walking squads?

Volt enveloping himself in Electric Shield?

 

Not to mention the brutal synergies between some frames that make an entire squad laugh in the face of incoming fire.

 

Valkyr has a very limited kit focused on melee and mostly self buffs for that and she is rewarded with ignoring damage if you play her right whereas other frames can nuke or just lock down entire map tiles and hog all the kills.

Also the longer your run with her the more damage you absorb and the more likely you'll die when leaving Hysteria with an enemy nearby and she is not immune to Nullifiers nor Ancient Disruptor energy drain auras so that can happen more often than you'd expect.

 

With Life Strike and Warcry you could always outdo Hysteria and for the most part it was just a panic button for most Valkyr players. And while claws are cool they get boring just like Excals Exalted blade that wipes everything clear off the map with its 40m range.

 

All I'm trying to point out is this: Valkyr is not broken, no need to further 'fix' her. 

[Kolos1001]

It literally only takes 1 slide atk to one shot ancients/gunners/bombards. Tested myself in the simulacrum with 10 bombards spawned.

Try without a melee wep and tell me Hysteria alone can do that. 

[TheBrsrkr]

Try without a melee wep and tell me Hysteria alone can do that.

Try a melee ability that scales off melee mods without a melee weapon on a melee frame? Really? Edited October 13, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[Kolos1001]

Try a melee ability that scales off melee mods without a melee weapon on a melee frame? Really?

I'm saying that much damage doesn't come from the ability alone. If you want that much damage you have to run a very specific set of mods. And if you're min maxing an entire loadout for one ability...yea it probably should do that much damage to a single target. Remember it doesn't clear the room instantly you have to be right next them and kill each enemy one at a time. 

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

It's always the same story here. Nerf X because I want Y to be the best. It's getting really frustrating.

Hell, talk with people ingame about the forums and people will joke for hours about how the forums are just a pile of sour sad nerf-addicts.

 

Ain't that the truth. My squad and I do the same thing, while we are enjoying a good session of void survival or defense. 

[Kolos1001]

Ain't that the truth. My squad and I do the same thing, while we are enjoying a good session of void survival or defense. 

If insulting people is the only "feedback" you have please stay off the forums. 

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

If insulting people is the only "feedback" you have please stay off the forums. 

 

Kind of pointless to give feedback when it constantly gets challenged by a "git gud" mentality.

[Kolos1001]

Kind of pointless to give feedback when it constantly gets challenged by a "git gud" mentality.

Then don't post at all if you feel like that. Slinging insults will only get you banned. 

[Ronyn]

Do you really want everything nerfed EXCEPT your precious favourite frame?

 

How is a melee focused frame being invulnerable for energy drain horrible and boring for you?

Because I am the one playing her. Valkyr is one of my very favorite frames. 

Should I ask: Why are you trying to keep her boring and ruin my fun? (would be a silly question right?)

 

Look man..Each one of us has every right to say "I prefer X frame to have Y"

Can we play another frame if it doesn't change? Sure. But then you can play another frame if it does change.

Point is we are just giving feedback on what we want and don't want for the game. Sane as you.

 

It's totally cool to express whether you feel she is fun and balanced or not, just as its totally cool for me to express whether I feel she is fun and balanced or not.

 

 

Valkyr was always capable of going indefinitely long as long as you could overcome damage fall off!

........ anything changed in her power level.

I'd say the changes have had very specific effects that alter certain dynamics. 

So some folks who were fine with her before may not be now.

Also keep in mind there were people who complained about the invulnerability before.

Agree or disagree with them but let's not pretend they didn't exist.

 

And the most prevalent argument against her is that people saw a video of a 120m T4S run?

-----

Unless you go a solo 120m run with your Valkyr and other frames to see how easy/hard it is to do yourself don't come running here asking a frame to be nerfed/buffed.

The concerns that many of us have are not related to somebody else's video but our own personal experiences playing her.

 

 

Is it then not bothering you that ......

We can go down the list of how we feel about each frame and each power.

No two are exactly the same, so just because someone feels a certain way about one doesn't mean they will feel the same a way about another.

Also, a lot of folks have a problem with several frames or powers. Just because they aren't discussing them in a Valkyr thread doesn't mean they think they are ok. So yes lets do comparisons if it helps, but keep in mind how intricate the issue really is,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

By all means discuss Valkyr,w hat we like/dilike and what you want/don't want for her. Express your reasoning behind your opinions if you can.

Just please do so without the above.

[Ronyn]

It's very possible to just make it like Nyx absorb. Where getting hit drains it faster. 

 

With that change you'd be punished by letting it run out while you're near enemies because then you'd take all that damage. 

 

I'd prefer not to actually change what the ability does since we have Chroma and Excal

Now this....this has promise. 

She would have reason to avoid incoming damage (to save energy) and that increases the reward fro skillful movement.

She would have a cap on how much damage she could really take in any given time. 

She would actually have to watch her distancing from enemies as her energy could be burnt off unexpectedly if she took a ton of damage really quickly.

(all we need a smart scaling mechanic for the damage loss to energy drain ratio) 

 

The change you suggest has a lot of merit. Ironically, one could argue that once there is a limit on how much damage she can shrug off before hysteria shuts off it is no longer true invulnerability. But only kind of...heh

 

Either way your idea is something i could get behind.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

Then don't post at all if you feel like that. Slinging insults will only get you banned. 

 

Perhaps I will. If this game is constantly changed because of the mentality that caused changes like Peacemaker, GPull, and Synoid Gammacor, then I'm not interested anymore.  

[Kolos1001]

Now this....this has promise. 

She would have reason to avoid incoming damage (to save energy) and that increases the reward fro skillful movement.

She would have a cap on how much damage she could really take in any given time. 

She would actually have to watch her distancing from enemies as her energy could be burnt off unexpectedly if she took a ton of damage really quickly.

(all we need a smart scaling mechanic for the damage loss to energy drain ratio) 

 

The change you suggest has a lot of merit. Ironically, one could argue that once there is a limit on how much damage she can shrug off before hysteria shuts off it is no longer true invulnerability. But only kind of...heh

 

Either way your idea is something i could get behind.

Thanks! As I've said I really dislike the idea of changing what the ability does. 

 

This would still allow players with min maxed builds to stay in it for a long time but you wouldn't be able to facetank everything forever with almost no mods like she does now.