Some Kind Of Auction House? [Megathread]

[Acidulant]

Say that after a bidding war starts for a Primed Chamber.

AH increase demand as well, because you get much more visibility, aka more demand for items because more people that want the item can easily find your item.

Primed Chamber is one of the very very few items that doesn't have googol of supply

[SilentFears]

So fun to read the posts of the pro AH players. 

Its like they think that if they ignore a problem very hard - the problem itself will be gone.

 

 

But the problem is a core mechanic and wont just go away by wishing on a star. And the problem is as follow.

 

I have 20 warframes and one maxed Blind Rage that i use whit all my frames. Introduce an AH - and each item will be ( outside of extreamly rare items ) will hit a price of 1 plat - why ? Becouse i have 20 frames and only one Blind Rage. Thats a fact. You can wish it away - but that wont make it go away.

 

And yes there is salution to that problem but as much as you want to be lazy and get free plat of an AH you wont like the salution. Aka make the grind 100 times worst or introduce character bound for mods or decay of items as they are used.

 

 

 

Say that after a bidding war starts for a Primed Chamber.

 

AH increase demand as well, because you get much more visibility, aka more demand for items because more people that want the item can easily find your item.

 

 

Lel putting forward an item that is limited and giving it as an example. Yes im surethe 130 players that have Primed Chamber will be happy. In the mean time every non limited mod, part and weapon ( read 99% of them ) will be sold for the epic price of 1 plat. Spin it however you wish - that wont change.

Edited October 30, 2015 by SilentFears

[Brokenrune]

Saturation is the problem, not the AH house it self, but how the game set itself up. Since demand can be quenched rather quickly with a AH the economy will crash

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

Saturation is the problem, not the AH house it self, but how the game set itself up. Since demand can be quenched rather quickly with a AH the economy will crash

We have trading, so if I understand what you are saying, we cant have a player market because more people would use it buy and sell and the only reason our economy is good right now is because of all the toxic players make other players avoid trade chat like the plague.

 

It just does not sound right to me.

[Aggh]

Saturation is the problem, not the AH house it self, but how the game set itself up. Since demand can be quenched rather quickly with a AH the economy will crash

Maybe for mods, but most trash prime parts are just dumped for ducats.  Saturation on prime parts is nowhere near the problem it used to be since there is a sink for prime parts.

[Brokenrune]

We have trading, so if I understand what you are saying, we cant have a player market because more people would use it buy and sell and the only reason our economy is good right now is because of all the toxic players make other players avoid trade chat like the plague.

 

It just does not sound right to me.

What toxic players 0.0 I frequent the trade chat regularly, they don't seem bad at all, I am one too Q,Q. what I meant was supply and demand. IF we have a infinite supply, and a very limited demand, then the demand would always be quenched.

 

The problem with the infinite supply and limited demand is that everyone will drive their prices down, thus causing a market crash. It is just not healthy for the game, mostly because of the way that mods are set up, and that you only need a single one. 

 

What we really need is a improved chat system with a search function, so you can find the offers and trade. Perhaps even a buy/sell page on your profile so people can buy your stuff, even if you are off line. 

[Brokenrune]

Maybe for mods, but most trash prime parts are just dumped for ducats.  Saturation on prime parts is nowhere near the problem it used to be since there is a sink for prime parts.

Ah but the thing is infinite, you only need a single set. What we really need to unsaturate the prime parts is a way in which we need a consistent flow of prime parts, same thing with mods. Mods however are much harder to fix

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

Have a listing with contact information for players, make the buyer contact the sender and negotiate, at least that way you can find the items/buyers in under 30 minutes.

[Aggh]

Ah but the thing is infinite, you only need a single set. What we really need to unsaturate the prime parts is a way in which we need a consistent flow of prime parts, same thing with mods. Mods however are much harder to fix

Doesn't matter since you can always use more ducats so it's a pretty powerful sink for prime parts.  New prisma weapons can trade for 100p when they first come out and prime mods can gain at least as much value if they go without a release for a while.

 

Adding some value to and reudcing the credit sink on transmutation (transmute cores were not a proper fix) would be the best way to create a proper sink for mods.

[Brokenrune]

Doesn't matter since you can always use more ducats so it's a pretty powerful sink for prime parts.  New prisma weapons can trade for 100p when they first come out and prime mods can gain at least as much value if they go without a release for a while.

 

Adding some value to and reudcing the credit sink on transmutation (transmute cores were not a proper fix) would be the best way to create a proper sink for mods.

hmmm, perhaps if you were to transumte all corrupted mods, you get a corrupted mod that is not the four you transumted? Giving you a better chance of obtaing the mod from the vault? Thus more demand? just my 2 cents

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

What toxic players 0.0 I frequent the trade chat regularly, they don't seem bad at all, I am one too Q,Q. what I meant was supply and demand. IF we have a infinite supply, and a very limited demand, then the demand would always be quenched.

 

The problem with the infinite supply and limited demand is that everyone will drive their prices down, thus causing a market crash. It is just not healthy for the game, mostly because of the way that mods are set up, and that you only need a single one. 

 

What we really need is a improved chat system with a search function, so you can find the offers and trade. Perhaps even a buy/sell page on your profile so people can buy your stuff, even if you are off line. 

 

Supply and demand in a game should be easy enough for the devs to fix. If they just add more demand(sinks) then the extra supply can get used up. If prime parts/ mods are getting used up by these demands that they created faster then they can be generated then prices go up. Then they can regulate the supply as they see fit.

[Brokenrune]

Supply and demand in a game should be easy enough for the devs to fix. If they just add more demand(sinks) then the extra supply can get used up. If prime parts/ mods are getting used up by these demands that they created faster then they can be generated then prices go up. Then they can regulate the supply as they see fit.

so basically create more skins in which the player have to grind for -.-); I think this could make or brake the game though. Big risk big reward if done right :/

[(PSN)Zeylon]

I think if the market restricted listings by MR, and kept the same trade # restrictions we already have, it would be fine.  I don't see any reason for an "auction" function in particular.  I think a straight player market would be fine (e.g. list item for X amount of time at X price) -- similar to EVE I guess.  

 

I'd also add that trade is substantially less convenient on consoles with a text interface and a population that's very light on keyboards.

[Brokenrune]

I think if the market restricted listings by MR, and kept the same trade # restrictions we already have, it would be fine.  I don't see any reason for an "auction" function in particular.  I think a straight player market would be fine (e.g. list item for X amount of time at X price) -- similar to EVE I guess.  

 

I'd also add that trade is substantially less convenient on consoles with a text interface and a population that's very light on keyboards.

I feel this would be a better idea then a auction house, because 

1) the demand would be able to keep up with the supply

2) the player market would be easy to interface with

3) the market doesn't crash

[wtrmlnjuc]

​Marketplace > Auction House

 

If you can't figure out why, learn a little bit of economics.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

so basically create more skins in which the player have to grind for -.-); I think this could make or brake the game though. Big risk big reward if done right :/

You misread a bit, I said sinks not skins, Example: Void Trader=prime parts/ducat sink, Rank 10 mods=Fusion Core sink, Transmutation=poor mod sink due to extreme rng+huge loss of credits.

[Brokenrune]

You misread a bit, I said sinks not skins, Example: Void Trader=prime parts/ducat sink, Rank 10 mods=Fusion Core sink, Transmutation=poor mod sink due to extreme rng+huge loss of credits.

lol spelling error op XD. I did mean sinks, I feel like sinks should have useful rewards? i.e transmuting 4 corrupted mod will give you a corrupted mod, but excluding the 4 mods. If they were to use the same mods, then 4 random mods are excluded.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

lol spelling error op XD. I did mean sinks, I feel like sinks should have useful rewards? i.e transmuting 4 corrupted mod will give you a corrupted mod, but excluding the 4 mods. If they were to use the same mods, then 4 random mods are excluded.

Yeah that would be preferred as transmutation 2.0, I would also prefer it credit cost was lowered or removed. Alot more people would be using up their extra mods if it was more of a categorized RNG group.

 

If they wanted to increase the demand of prime parts they could always add fusion cores to baro, I am sure lots of people would trade trash parts for that and people would have something to look forward to if he just brings repeat stuff. If they feel fusion core supply is too high then they can just add more rank 10 mods(I am sure more primes on the way).

[Dakillerson]

Maybe it would be better if we were able to create a shop at a relay or something like that.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

Maybe it would be better if we were able to create a shop at a relay or something like that.

I would prefer not to, mostly because if I am looking for a stance that is still hard to find because of RNG, it is going to be in very few store if any. Spending hours searching through stores would not solve the problem. Look at what happens in the relay when baro is around, then imagine it being like that all the time and having to search though all that.(Nightmare)

[ChameleonDude]

The supplies is the same (since it doesn't alter drop rate in anyway)

 

Demand is the same (since it doesn't alter how many players need something)

 

This is simply not true. Supply vastly increases because people who would previously not sell their items, due to the current trading venues being as bad as they are, would begin selling them. If it's a couple of button presses and logging off to do something else, it's a lot more convenient than sitting in the chat or waiting for the nearly dead sub-forum to bear fruit.

 

Demand, to be fair, would also probably increase a little. However, people who are desperate enough for an item will usually seek it out; as opposed to people with an item to sell, who would let it sit in their inventory / sell it for credits / fuse/transmute a mod, etc.

 

If you think the number of items being sold now is the same as the number of items that would be sold with quick, AFK-able system like an auction house are the same, please think again. Most items in this game only retain their tiny value because the trading system is as it is, and people just can't be bothered to use it. The number of items in the game, yes, that stays the same. The number of items on the market, however, is another story.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

​Marketplace > Auction House

 

If you can't figure out why, learn a little bit of economics.

Player Markets and Auction Houses are the same thing in MMOs. They just typically aren't called markets because "market" or "marketplace" is usually reserved for the official store.

 

Pic related; it's a screenshot of the the AH in DFO:

 

 

Notice the "Buy Now."

[GhostLacuna]

AH is pure cancer.

 

The trading in warframe has a entrypoint that any AH lack completely.

 

if we where to have one million people playing warframe and lets say 25% of them got more then one of a item they want to sell.

 

now we would not have the entrypoint that trading has today so all 250000 people who have the item will post in on the AH

 

congratulation now you have to basically undersell the item to ensure that someone buy it at all because your competing as a seller with over 200000 people. 

 

look at the price range of the item in DesecratedFlames picture. 15k to 40k if it where plat in warframe we could say its 15-40 plat. Congratulations that is the range of the items worth and you will be stuck to it forever if you go over 40 plat it will never be sold because everyone who has had basic math can see that 40 is more then 20 or 15 so they will never buy your item.

 

Soon the informal price range like everyone other damn AH is every other mmo will become around the median of the price range so since 15+40= 55 and 55/2= 27.5

 

that item will forever have a base value of 27.5 go higher then that and you risk that nobody will buy your item.

 

I stopped playing Diablo 3 for years because of the AH there.

 

And no there is no huge difference betwwen warframe and diablo 3 when it comes to how it will end up.

 

The devs on diablo 3 had to resort to tweak droprates down to below 1 promille just to ensure players didnt flood the AH.

 

Nothing in Warframe is that rare.

 

Lets take an example from diablo 2 and the contrast between single player and multiplayer.

 

Getting one of the more sought after items in diablo 2 for example a ber rune was very hard in singleplayer and could not be done without a edit of the game files that make the bnet runewords work in singleplayer.

 

but anyway the drop rate for a ber rune singleplayer or bnet was 0.000249% from Radament.

 

You had to either be extremely lucky to get it to drop from that monster or kill a lot of monsters in a +78 or +79 area for a 0.000103% chance

 

but on bnet due to how many more people where playing you where decked out in gear containing multiple ber runes within weeks if you where to start a new character.

 

that was without a AH. Auction houses only make that problem larger.

 

1000000x 0.000240=24  so even at this drop rate at any time around 24 people would have this item up for sale with an AH system.

 

now lets see the droprates in warframe is around 4 percent for the harder to find items

 

1000000x0.04=40000

 

so at any given time you would have 40000 of that item up for sale. Now unless someone delete that item for ducats or just plain credits its stays forever.

 

So the supply can only go up over time never down unless DE themselves delete the item from the game.

 

So all items will become worthless over time.

 

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

-snip-

 

Seals.  You can only sell an item if it has a seal. To use the item, you have to unseal it. To resell it you have to reseal it using a cashop item that costs 100 plat.

 

Problem solved, moving on.

[Ryouhi]

I'd rather not...

I'm still traumatized by some of the Auction Houses from MMOs where the currencies inflated more and more over time.

 

Rightn now the trading is a  little inconvenient, but at least you have to keep your prices reasonable or noone will take your offers

also haggling is a big advantage to auction houses