Nothing Says "toxicity" Quite Like Archwing Events/content

[KarbineRoller]

But warbros is still numbah wan :) stay jelly my beloved excalibur cousin 

Lol, not jelly at a clan that abuses game mechanics to be numba wan. Just saying that region is pretty much warframes 4chan.

[evil_m3nace]

Lol, not jelly at a clan that abuses game mechanics to be numba wan. Just saying that region is pretty much warframes 4chan.

they have not abused anything other than your pride. stay jelly cousin :)

[Lhudge]

Anyway at the rythm it's going right now the fomorian will be destroyed in less than 24h. It began idk 7-8h ago and the fomorian is at 63%

[f3llyn]

It's because as gamers they feel inadequate for not having proper archwing gear when it isn't leveled up, and at the same time feel resentful that they are expected to level it up -- because they are convinced the game mode "sucks". 

 

But it gets even more malicious for some arch haters. I've noticed a lot of people who dislike archwing seem to have this philosophy that if they screech loudly enough and refuse to play it, that DE will remove archwing from the game. This often extends into vitriol for anyone who says they enjoy archwing, because it messes with these players delusional plan to try to get DE to give up on archwing. 

 

And make no mistake it is delusional. DE has spent far too much, time, money, effort and tied it too much to the story to do anything but move forward with archwing at this point. It's here to stay and people are going to have to accept it eventually. 

 

The fact is a lot of players literally want to see archwing burn, and anything that doesn't help that goal goes against their wishes. 

 

 

Note: If this doesn't apply to you personally no need to defend yourself. Plenty of people who dislike archwing can do so perfectly maturely without illogically trying to destroy it completely or ruin and or flame other people for having fun with it. 

 

Why not? It's worked for everything else in the past that's been nerfed for due to whiners on the forums.

[KarbineRoller]

they have not abused anything other than your pride. stay jelly cousin :)

oh well what about using Loki's switch teleport to get to rooms faster in operation Tethra Doom? Thats not an exploit I guess :s I don't want to sidetrack the discussion anymore so outtie :)

Edited October 16, 2015 by KarbineRoller

[Jaruis]

oh well what about using Loki's switch teleport to get to rooms faster in operation Tethra Doom? Thats not an exploit I guess :s I don't want to sidetrack the discussion anymore so outtie :)

Don't forget about the alternative accounts they made.

 

There's no justification for toxicity to burn the relays, especially if you're going to overlook the consequences.

 

We're both in a lose-lose situation guys. Let's not make it worse

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

If they designed the game to punish the whole community for a huge portion not wanting to play AW, that's their deal. Don't flare at the community for it.

[evil_m3nace]

Don't forget about the alternative accounts they made.

 

There's no justification for toxicity to burn the relays, especially if you're going to overlook the consequences.

 

We're both in a lose-lose situation guys. Let's not make it worse

they only made alternate accounts after the other biggest clan started doing so, when those alts were banned they started inviting a lot of people. How do I know this? I was one of the invites.

[eksby]

I could be way off-point in much of what I'm about to type.  These are my thoughts on the type of situation we're in regarding Archwing and folks' thoughts regarding it as an entity within Warframe.  As with anything this is all based on my own obervations which are then placed out as a "generalization" of sorts to attempt to reason out why things haven gotten to this stage.

 

Basically, take it all with a grain of salt.

 

_____________________________

 

 

Anyways from the outset Archwing was something that did indeed spark interest from the community at large.  Within region chat the notions being expressed varied though most of them that I saw were overall positive/excited.  However things took a rather harsh turn when Archwing actually released due to the reality of playing something versus player expectation of hypotheticals/trailers.  As many know, first impressions are a hard thing to overcome.  Even though Archwing now has had some solid levels of polishing (it could use more) it's got to fight against the less than stellar first impression it made with the playerbase at large.

 

 

But rather than go forward here, we'll take a step back and look at the issues at play;  Why is it, that Archwing hit a somewhat sour note with so many players?

 

 

At its most initial outset Archwing had some expected hiccups, one glaring one being where a player's frame choice made a huge impact on survivability levels within this game mode.  Basically one who didn't pick a frame with high Shielding and Health was at a stark statistical disadvantage.  While Warframe is indeed a PVE oriented game, players hate (with the passion of a thousand fiery suns) being notably outclassed by their peers.  Because of this folks flocked to choosing such frames to play to this gain.  Then, in the interest of removing  "a correct choice" which invalidates player choice, DE swapped things up so that Archwing HP/Shielding was its own thing independant of frame choice.

 

To note this, DE made the absolute correct choice here, but this shift in parameters available to player hit on the negative to those among the playerbase who already favored defensively potent frames.  Unlike those who played "squishy" frames, these player who already had been utilizing the heavier frames saw this as a sort of detraction from them in a way.  "Why should other people get to have the same defenses I get?"  alongside "Why shouldn't I get better defenses since I'm the defensive guy?"

 

So that wraps up one bad impression hit on for a number of players.  Again as noted I saw some of these exact complaints parakeeted in region as well as having seen threads on such a subject hit on the forums from time to time.  While not everyone has/did feel this way, many did.

 

 

Nextly we'll go to something which hit a much broader selection of the playerbase;  The disjunction of game modes.  This is the one which hits home for me for instance.

 

 

For those in the newer crowd this one wasn't felt, but instead imagine those who'd dumped a fair bit of time into progressing themselves in power across their time playing Warframe.  Archwing isn't an airplane space jet thing, it's your frame with wings.  Your frame, the one with whom you're a proverbial "master of awesomeness and unstoppability" who laughs in the face of dangerous foes with your stacked up and potent guns and majestically amazing mod pool.

 

And now you're a schmuck who's statistically no better off than a guy who started playing super recently.  Now this luckily didn't hit me all that hard, but I won't lie that it feels a little annoying when you go into Archwing knowing that nothing you do there matters to the normal game, and that nothing in Archwing is going to matter to your main game.  This in turn leaves a bad impression on any who feel this way, leaving them with this notion that Archwing isn't a real part of Warframe at all.  Instead being a tacked-on side thing.

 

In summation there;  In a game where time and effort all go to the grind over a long term, having to literally chuck all that time and effort out the window and start from the beginning can be a very painful thing.  Fact is, up till we got Uranus swapped over into the underwatery goodness that it is now, there wasn't any real link between Archwing and Warframe.  So with this you're left with a handful of "veteran" players who look at Archwing as this diabolical thing which serves only to take away valuable time that they could spend on actually improving their standing in Warframe.

 

___________________

 

 

I could add a few more generalized observations like how the control feel of Archwing is a bit wonky for some players.  Where they (myself included) didn't expect to be locked on an axis and instead expected it to control more like an actual flight game.  Or how the weapon part grind slowly eroded away at some players who wanted to or did like Archwing (I've seen many in chat who gave up due to this) which in turn transformed them into players who hate Archwing.

 

Basically it all, in the end, boils down to one simple thing;  Resentment, and when people resent something they want to see it fail.  So now how does this tie into the "Let X Relay fall!" you may wonder?  Well I've still got a bit of droning on left in me so I'll cover my thoughts on this progression now.

 

So we've got a bunch of players who, for whatever reason, feel a deep resentment towards Archwing and thusly want it to fail.  The Relays are an addition to the game which have an overall more positive "vibe" across the playerbase.  They're also (alike Archwing) something DE themselves worked on for many long and hard hours to get up and running.  This causes those who resent Archwing to want to pit them against one another as a way to try and display their feelings to DE in a direct way.

 

By trying to get most/many/all of the Relays destroyed.  They can in turn convey this thought that they were destroyed not because of "fun" or for kicks, but because players didn't want to suffer through Archwing to save them.  Basically making a real world (game) impact based on their own ideals in a hope to see action.  Putting it at a choice;  Keep Relays as a part of the game?  Or scrap them and keep Archwing.  Of course with players hoping that Archwing is the game piece which ends up taking the vital blow when the dust settles.

 

Basically they desire to let something which is widely deemed as good/useful to fail to show how much they hate another thing.  Utilizing Relays as a dagger with which to stab Archwing right in the heart.  Of course not everyone who wishes to see some Relays fall will fit into this generalization.  There are going to be elitists out there who just like holding things above newer players.  Players who wish to see how things play out purely out of curiousity (assuming DE won't let a whole fragment of the game just die) and want to satiate their curiousity.

 

But alas, as I noted at the start of this little wall of text, all of this is nothing more than my thoughts on the matter.  Thoughts based upon observations within Region chat as well as the forums over the course of events regarding the conception, implementation, and furthering of Archwing as a part of Warframe.  It's possible that I've hit home somewhat here, but it's also possible I've gone off the deep end and am wrong about all of this.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I should probably put in some work towards saving those Relays as all this fingerwork is doing them no good.  While I still have some of those same less than stellar first impressions of Archwing (I wish it wasn't so partitioned off) I also still have hope for it as a part of Warframe.  So I'll still foray into it now and then, because while it's not the most enjoyable thing to me now, I figure it will do as the rest of Warframe has and improve over time.

 

Edit;  Because there's always at least one typo isn't there?  Also forgot a small portion of formatting.

^This guy's got it right. This needs to be in the OP. 

[OniDax]

I could be way off-point in much of what I'm about to type.  These are my thoughts on the type of situation we're in regarding Archwing and folks' thoughts regarding it as an entity within Warframe.  As with anything this is all based on my own obervations which are then placed out as a "generalization" of sorts to attempt to reason out why things haven gotten to this stage.

 

Basically, take it all with a grain of salt.

 

_____________________________

 

 

Anyways from the outset Archwing was something that did indeed spark interest from the community at large.  Within region chat the notions being expressed varied though most of them that I saw were overall positive/excited.  However things took a rather harsh turn when Archwing actually released due to the reality of playing something versus player expectation of hypotheticals/trailers.  As many know, first impressions are a hard thing to overcome.  Even though Archwing now has had some solid levels of polishing (it could use more) it's got to fight against the less than stellar first impression it made with the playerbase at large.

 

 

But rather than go forward here, we'll take a step back and look at the issues at play;  Why is it, that Archwing hit a somewhat sour note with so many players?

 

 

At its most initial outset Archwing had some expected hiccups, one glaring one being where a player's frame choice made a huge impact on survivability levels within this game mode.  Basically one who didn't pick a frame with high Shielding and Health was at a stark statistical disadvantage.  While Warframe is indeed a PVE oriented game, players hate (with the passion of a thousand fiery suns) being notably outclassed by their peers.  Because of this folks flocked to choosing such frames to play to this gain.  Then, in the interest of removing  "a correct choice" which invalidates player choice, DE swapped things up so that Archwing HP/Shielding was its own thing independant of frame choice.

 

To note this, DE made the absolute correct choice here, but this shift in parameters available to player hit on the negative to those among the playerbase who already favored defensively potent frames.  Unlike those who played "squishy" frames, these player who already had been utilizing the heavier frames saw this as a sort of detraction from them in a way.  "Why should other people get to have the same defenses I get?"  alongside "Why shouldn't I get better defenses since I'm the defensive guy?"

 

So that wraps up one bad impression hit on for a number of players.  Again as noted I saw some of these exact complaints parakeeted in region as well as having seen threads on such a subject hit on the forums from time to time.  While not everyone has/did feel this way, many did.

 

 

Nextly we'll go to something which hit a much broader selection of the playerbase;  The disjunction of game modes.  This is the one which hits home for me for instance.

 

 

For those in the newer crowd this one wasn't felt, but instead imagine those who'd dumped a fair bit of time into progressing themselves in power across their time playing Warframe.  Archwing isn't an airplane space jet thing, it's your frame with wings.  Your frame, the one with whom you're a proverbial "master of awesomeness and unstoppability" who laughs in the face of dangerous foes with your stacked up and potent guns and majestically amazing mod pool.

 

And now you're a schmuck who's statistically no better off than a guy who started playing super recently.  Now this luckily didn't hit me all that hard, but I won't lie that it feels a little annoying when you go into Archwing knowing that nothing you do there matters to the normal game, and that nothing in Archwing is going to matter to your main game.  This in turn leaves a bad impression on any who feel this way, leaving them with this notion that Archwing isn't a real part of Warframe at all.  Instead being a tacked-on side thing.

 

In summation there;  In a game where time and effort all go to the grind over a long term, having to literally chuck all that time and effort out the window and start from the beginning can be a very painful thing.  Fact is, up till we got Uranus swapped over into the underwatery goodness that it is now, there wasn't any real link between Archwing and Warframe.  So with this you're left with a handful of "veteran" players who look at Archwing as this diabolical thing which serves only to take away valuable time that they could spend on actually improving their standing in Warframe.

 

___________________

 

 

I could add a few more generalized observations like how the control feel of Archwing is a bit wonky for some players.  Where they (myself included) didn't expect to be locked on an axis and instead expected it to control more like an actual flight game.  Or how the weapon part grind slowly eroded away at some players who wanted to or did like Archwing (I've seen many in chat who gave up due to this) which in turn transformed them into players who hate Archwing.

 

Basically it all, in the end, boils down to one simple thing;  Resentment, and when people resent something they want to see it fail.  So now how does this tie into the "Let X Relay fall!" you may wonder?  Well I've still got a bit of droning on left in me so I'll cover my thoughts on this progression now.

 

So we've got a bunch of players who, for whatever reason, feel a deep resentment towards Archwing and thusly want it to fail.  The Relays are an addition to the game which have an overall more positive "vibe" across the playerbase.  They're also (alike Archwing) something DE themselves worked on for many long and hard hours to get up and running.  This causes those who resent Archwing to want to pit them against one another as a way to try and display their feelings to DE in a direct way.

 

By trying to get most/many/all of the Relays destroyed.  They can in turn convey this thought that they were destroyed not because of "fun" or for kicks, but because players didn't want to suffer through Archwing to save them.  Basically making a real world (game) impact based on their own ideals in a hope to see action.  Putting it at a choice;  Keep Relays as a part of the game?  Or scrap them and keep Archwing.  Of course with players hoping that Archwing is the game piece which ends up taking the vital blow when the dust settles.

 

Basically they desire to let something which is widely deemed as good/useful to fail to show how much they hate another thing.  Utilizing Relays as a dagger with which to stab Archwing right in the heart.  Of course not everyone who wishes to see some Relays fall will fit into this generalization.  There are going to be elitists out there who just like holding things above newer players.  Players who wish to see how things play out purely out of curiousity (assuming DE won't let a whole fragment of the game just die) and want to satiate their curiousity.

 

But alas, as I noted at the start of this little wall of text, all of this is nothing more than my thoughts on the matter.  Thoughts based upon observations within Region chat as well as the forums over the course of events regarding the conception, implementation, and furthering of Archwing as a part of Warframe.  It's possible that I've hit home somewhat here, but it's also possible I've gone off the deep end and am wrong about all of this.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I should probably put in some work towards saving those Relays as all this fingerwork is doing them no good.  While I still have some of those same less than stellar first impressions of Archwing (I wish it wasn't so partitioned off) I also still have hope for it as a part of Warframe.  So I'll still foray into it now and then, because while it's not the most enjoyable thing to me now, I figure it will do as the rest of Warframe has and improve over time.

 

Edit;  Because there's always at least one typo isn't there?  Also forgot a small portion of formatting.

 

I'd say that's an accurate assessment of a variety of players' feelings regarding Archwing. I know that, when Archwing first came out, it felt so fresh, so new, and so free to be moving in all that space. And, in some respects, I still like the core gameplay mechanics of it. But the feature/mode is so undeveloped, imo. It still feels so basic to me. And then, probably an even bigger issue, imo, that just looms over it, is that, being in space, it feels like it exists just to be unique (as in, not a space fighter mode). Honestly, players just might have liked it more if it were actually a space fighter mode (like with the Liset, Mantis, or other craft) instead of being your Warframe on wings, where your Warframe has no effect on the archwing. I don't know. It's just that, from my own perspective, Archwing seems like DE trying to make something that is similar to a typical space combat mode, yet trying hard to be different/unique just for the sake of it. I know I'd enjoy it more if it were a more typical space combat mode. I'd also enjoy a survival mission type for the mode (actual survival, not tap-the-life-support or excavation-grab-the-power-cell).

[Mak_Gohae]

Disliking Rap music and not buying the Album is one thing.

 

But hitting up the official Forum/Chat Channels of that Artist and wishing that person witnesses 'a fiery, exploding death' not only displays their apparent hate of that person, they also get a drive out of the fans of that Artist, effectively trolling them.

 

And that is not okay.

 

Ok... you do know there's a difference between wishing something exploded in a game is totally different than in real life, right?

 

So are we just glossing over the fact that my original post specifically mentioned people being purposely hostile because it's Archwing?

 

This has absolutely nothing at all to do with "different opinions", and everything to do with the fact that some players are using snobbery and elitism as an excuse to let the only relay open to all players get destroyed.

 

Dont really know how not liking A-wing means one is an elitist.

 

I think you are combining a whole mess of different stuff into one thing.

I want to see the relay destroyed because i want to see what DE does.

Most likely just magically pop one back up because players will complain.

But it would be cool if there was some sort new mission to rebuild them.

[Star]

I will fully admit that when exposed to too much Archwing at one time, I get into such a foul mood. I get frustrated, annoyed, and my glee for Warframe is snuffed out like a candle. I can spend hours doing just about anything in this game, but drop me in Archwing missions for .. 30 mins? And I just want to sign off. Hence, I only play that game mode when I absolutely have to, in order to obtain some other goal that requires Archwing.

 

But, I don't take that mood out on other people by any means. :I And ofc I want to save the relay, even though spending time in the relay makes me feel a similar amount of frustration.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Star

[(PSN)buddy72757]

elitist bastards.

O_o

 

okie

[Kastorius]

Archwing is not only boring compared to standard Warframe gameplay—and with far less variety—but players are also forced to repeat this tedious, limited content over and over and over again in order to progress. Ranking up takes much longer than in standard game modes, and nearly every weapon must be farmed piece-by-piece from these same few mission types (as opposed to market-purchasable blueprints calling only for resources), no doubt because there are so few of them. Forget the weapons; farming an Elytron can take many dozens of Caelus runs, for example.

 

On top of that, content people actually care about is gated behind Archwing as the developers continue to integrate it into Warframe. It's really not hard to figure out why some players spit venom hoping that DE will take heed and that Archwing will either be drastically improved, or simply made entirely optional. If you're tired of seeing negativity about Archwing, then do your part and politely lobby DE for constructive improvements.

 

The recent changes in 17.5 have been a much-appreciated step in the right direction, don't get me wrong, but they haven't been earth-shattering or game-changing, either. It's nice to go a lot faster, see proper enemy position markers, and have a couple of extra mission types, but that doesn't fix everything.

 

I've played my fair share of Archwing, I think:

 

 

Archwing is almost as tedious and annoying now as it was when I played the very first mission after digging up my Odonata. I actually do feel badly for the developers receiving so much hate for the game mode, but until they manage to make it more fun, that's what they get for shoving it down people's throats.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Kastorius

[TennoPain]

My opinion is ARCH should be removed ppl had long enough time to get used to it some did most of ppl did not END OF STORY 

 

Why keep it if we could focus on more plesant things.

[peekitea]

wow. nice design choice. being able to destroy relays. wonderful.

[Jaruis]

My opinion is ARCH should be removed ppl had long enough time to get used to it some did most of ppl did not END OF STORY 

 

Why keep it if we could focus on more plesant things.

Another archwing hater complainer.

Guess what. Copter was removed and people still played. Stop trying to voice the community and move on.

[CapnSquiggles]

People get mad about the amount of content in it, but if they were around earlier, there were only like 3 or 4 enemy types for each faction and pretty basic maps. With time DE adds a ton in. It is still reasonably considered beta BECAUSE of how much they add and change over time.

We already have the basics of a Zone of the Enders style space combat side content and it only has room to grow. Patience is not a virtue the gaming community practices widely.

[peekitea]

People get mad about the amount of content in it, but if they were around earlier, there were only like 3 or 4 enemy types for each faction and pretty basic maps. With time DE adds a ton in. It is still reasonably considered beta BECAUSE of how much they add and change over time.

We already have the basics of a Zone of the Enders style space combat side content and it only has room to grow. Patience is not a virtue the gaming community practices widely.

i dont even know why this game is still in beta. there is enough content in this game to be out of the baby stages

[_maeos_]

i just hope that fomorian vessels dont become a common occurence cause its nice to have them once every few months or so but if i have to save the relays every week then id rather just let them burn and baro ki teer can take his business elsewhere

 

(grammar is bad i know but im just too lazy to type proper sentences)

[Oriviagene]

Basically those ppl r just weakling,they can't do anything so all they do is complaining

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

I actually decently like Archwing :x

[ArchXypher]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/541106-archwing-and-the-weapon-grind/#entry6077770

 

This is why Archwing is an annoying game mode. Everything that takes away from the fun of the game is present in Archwing and the grind... too much grind for normal weapons. Why even..

[Kastorius]

People get mad about the amount of content in it, but if they were around earlier, there were only like 3 or 4 enemy types for each faction and pretty basic maps.

 

I started playing Warframe just a few months ago, or so I thought. Last month, I discovered by total chance (I logged into the Warframe website using an older email and password; brain was on autopilot) that I actually have an older Warframe account dating from April 2013. I had totally forgotten about it.

 

After that, I (very vaguely) remembered that I played Warframe back then for like two hours. My guess is that I drifted away out of boredom.

 

I think that might be because there were only 3 or 4 enemy types and pretty basic maps back then. Archwing might be more fun in a year or two, but for now it's still fairly boring, AND important Warframe content is gated behind it. It's also not the primary game mode, so there's no guarantee it'll ever be anywhere near as fun as the main game.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Kastorius

[Sloan441]

Tilting at windmills.

 

Archwing isn't going away. Best get with the program and deal with it.

 

As for grind, well, not buying that either. I had far more grind getting to MR6 and decent weapons in the regular mode well before Archwing. My time in Archwing (and we're talking multiple formas on several weapons and 'wings) is dwarfed by that initial trit to MR6.

 

Less whine; more play.